New (2nd Hand) Car Engine Trouble

Steve_Holt

Less than two months ago I bought my first car, a second hand one from a dealer. The car broke down over the weekend and I've now been told that the engine needs replacing due to there being too much oil in the engine. Admittedly my knowledge of cars is minimal to say the least but I'd imagine that this is a pretty expensive job to do.

This is obviously something I should have checked myself when I bought the car but didn't (lesson learned) and I haven't put any oil in the car since I bought it so I can only assume that there was too much oil in the engine when I bought the car - do I have any recourse to the dealer at all?

The dealer made it clear when I was purchasing that it was being sold 'as is' and this is stated on the receipt I signed. I also don't have any warranty as he was looking to charge a few hundred extra so didn't go for it.

From doing a bit of reading on the NCA website I see it states that a car "must be in roadworthy condition when sold to a consumer via a trader. This means that it must be safe for the user, and for other road users." It didn't feel very safe when smoke started coming out of the car on the dual carriageway over the weekend but I don't know am I grasping at straws or not.

Any advice on whether I have a case to go back to the dealer with or advice on the best way to go about getting the engine replaced would be much appreciated. Cheers.

Jimbob 83

Did you put any Oil in it after you bought it ?

Steve_Holt

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Did you put any Oil in it after you bought it ?

No I haven't.

Jimbob 83

Steve_Holt wrote: »

No I haven't.

You might have a case then tbh

Steve_Holt

Steve_Holt wrote: »

..........

The dealer made it clear when I was purchasing that it was being sold 'as is' and this is stated on the receipt I signed. I also don't have any warranty as he was looking to charge a few hundred extra so didn't go for it...............

Unfortunately you're on your own.

Steve_Holt

RoverJames wrote: »

Unfortunately you're on your own.

That's what I'm afraid of.

Was reading legislation on this though (http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0013.html#sec13) and found the following:

"...Without prejudice to any other condition or warranty, in every contract for the sale of a motor vehicle (except a contract in which the buyer is a person whose business it is to deal in motor vehicles) there is an implied condition that at the time of delivery of the vehicle under the contract it is free from any defect which would render it a danger to the public, including persons travelling in the vehicle.

...Where an action is brought for breach of the implied condition... by reason of a specific defect in a motor vehicle and a certificate complying with the requirements of this section is not proved to have been given, it shall be presumed unless the contrary is proved that the proven defect existed at the time of delivery.

....any term of a contract exempting from all or any of the provisions of this section shall be void."

From reading the above I think I could possibly argue that having too much oil in the engine causing the car to have smoke pouring out of it was both a danger to myself and other road users and that anything I signed saying I was buying the car 'as is' doesn't excuse the dealer liability from this.

Or am I completely grasping at straws??

Any advice on buying a new engine would be much appreciated too. Any idea how much a 1.3L engine for a VW Golf would cost?

Senna

Two months?? any idea of the amount of mileage you done in that time?

Someone else with more knowledge will know, but if there was too much oil, would the damage not be done quicker??

Steve_Holt

Senna wrote: »

Two months?? any idea of the amount of mileage you done in that time?

Someone else with more knowledge will know, but if there was too much oil, would the damage not be done quicker??

I'm not sure of the mileage done in that time but I don't use the car that often so it would be well below average I would say. I actually barely drove it at all for the first month.

My knowledge of cars wouldn't be great either so I'm only going off what I was told by what the guy from the roadside assistance who came out to recover the car and he seemed pretty certain that too much oil was the problem.

JP 1800

More information on the car would be helpful i.e make, model and fuel type. If a car had too much oil it would smoke a lot sooner and damage your catalyst and lambda sensors. With regards to sold as is, that disclaimer is not worth the paper it is written on to joe public as you are not a registered dealer and can not by definition take a trade sale. The sale of goods act 1980 will cover you if you can prove that the car had a fault from purchase but you only have a warranty for 3 months after the sale.

...... surely you know what mileage was on The car when you bought it and what's on it now? Has the issue been diagnosed aside from the breakdown guy?

JP 1800

RoverJames wrote: »

...... surely you know what mileage was on The car when you bought it and what's on it now? Has the issue been diagnosed aside from the breakdown guy?

Spot on, always get a second opinion

Steve_Holt

RoverJames wrote: »

...... surely you know what mileage was on The car when you bought it and what's on it now? Has the issue been diagnosed aside from the breakdown guy?

I know the mileage when I bought it but the car wouldnt even turn on yesterday when I got it back so I coudnt check the exact mileage. It was approx 1,000 miles since I bought it.

Will definitely get a second opinon alright. Would it be worth my while getting a car assessor to look at it or should I just get onto a normal mechanic?

Steve_Holt

JP 1800 wrote: »

More information on the car would be helpful i.e make, model and fuel type. If a car had too much oil it would smoke a lot sooner and damage your catalyst and lambda sensors. With regards to sold as is, that disclaimer is not worth the paper it is written on to joe public as you are not a registered dealer and can not by definition take a trade sale. The sale of goods act 1980 will cover you if you can prove that the car had a fault from purchase but you only have a warranty for 3 months after the sale.

1.3L 2001 VW Golf Petrol. Car was bought less than 2 months ago.

Henry Ford III

Seller will just say the oil level was perfect when it was sold. Even if you didn't overfill it it'll be impossible to prove.

George Dalton

First of all the diagnosis seems suspect to me. These engines usually have the opposite problem, i.e. lack of oil.

However, regardless of the problem or the cause of the problem I would say that from your post you fully understood when you were buying the car that you were buying it as is with no warranty or comeback.

The fact that you bought the car on that understanding and then drove it for 2 months without even bothering to dip it for oil is bad enough. The fact that you are now looking for warranty is even worse.

kildare.17hmr

George Dalton wrote: »

The fact that you bought the car on that understanding and then drove it for 2 months without even bothering to dip it for oil is bad enough. The fact that you are now looking for warranty is even worse.

Iv been the dealer in a similar situation and never again will i sell a car without a warranty, its not worth it but the OP in this case is well within his rights to look for this problem to be fixed. The dealer knows the rules and cant make them up or bend them to suit himself. This crack of saying if you want a warranty it'll cost ya is bull, i always provide a warranty and give the option of paying for an upgraded or longer term one.

Ill just add that iv seen some dealers pawning scrap this way to unsuspecting buyers who have no idea what they are looking at and no idea of their rights, this practice does nothing but hurt honest dealers because everyone ends up tarred with the same brush by people who have been burned

Steve_Holt

UPDATE: Well I got a 2nd opinion on the engine shortly after starting this thread. It turns out too much oil wasn't the problem but in any event the engine needed replacing and I was told that it was probably going when I bought the car.

i got nowhere with the dealer who sold me the car so I ended up in the Small Claims Court, won the case and got awarded €1,000. Thank you Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act!

Gary ITR

Steve_Holt wrote: »

UPDATE: Well I got a 2nd opinion on the engine shortly after starting this thread. It turns out too much oil wasn't the problem but in any event the engine needed replacing and I was told that it was probably going when I bought the car.

i got nowhere with the dealer who sold me the car so I ended up in the Small Claims Court, won the case and got awarded €1,000. Thank you Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act!

So you got the car at a discounted price because there was no warranty then took the chap to court when he wouldn't stand over it and took 1k off him. Sound

Markcheese

Gary ITR wrote: »

So you got the car at a discounted price because there was no warranty then took the chap to court when he wouldn't stand over it and took 1k off him. Sound

The law is the law.. Dealer knew he couldn't sell the car without a warranty on a private sale but tried to any way...

MuppetCheck

Did they say in court at any time that you were entitled to a three month warranty due to you buying from a dealer?

Hal Decks

Markcheese wrote: »

The law is the law.. Dealer knew he couldn't sell the car without a warranty on a private sale but tried to any way...

OP won, not because of lack of warranty, but because the car was defective when sold.

Gary ITR

Hal Decks wrote: »

OP won, not because of lack of warranty, but because the car was defective when sold.

How do you know it was defective? The car wasn't dipped for oil in 1000miles, VW themselves say 1l/1000kms is acceptable in these cars. The op did 1000 miles so 1600kms which would mean the could very well have been.down 1.6 litres

Chuck_Norris

Gary ITR wrote: »

How do you know it was defective? The car wasn't dipped for oil in 1000miles, VW themselves say 1l/1000kms is acceptable in these cars. The op did 1000 miles so 1600kms which would mean the could very well have been.down 1.6 litres

Gary, if the issue was the fact that there was too much oil when the car was sold, and VW themselves say (and I know from firsthand experience) that engine uses approx 1l/100km, and it was still showing excess oil 1000km later, then it must've been seriously over filled.

I do agree that the o/p showed total naivety when he purchased the car, and total lack of mechanical knowledge afterwards, but there's no harm in dodgy dealers getting what what's coming to them.

Steve_Holt

The judge stated that as the man who sold the car was a dealer he came under the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. Simple as that.

The judge also didn't look at all favourably on the dealer ignoring me and not engaging at all.

By the way, I'm out a lot more than €1k over this car. As far as I'm concerned the dealer has still done well for himself.

Edit: As I've already stated it turned out the problem wasn't that there was too much oil in the car (there wasn't). This was initially mis-diagnosed by the roadside technician but 2nd and 3rd opinions by mechanics confirmed that this was not the case.

Gary ITR

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

Gary, if the issue was the fact that there was too much oil when the car was sold, and VW themselves say (and I know from firsthand experience) that engine uses approx 1l/100km, and it was still showing excess oil 1000km later, then it must've been seriously over filled.

I do agree that the o/p showed total naivety when he purchased the car, and total lack of mechanical knowledge afterwards, but there's no harm in dodgy dealers getting what what's coming to them.

The op stated above that the initial diagnosis of overfilling with oil was off the mark (see what I did there lol)

Steve_Holt

Gary ITR wrote: »

So you got the car at a discounted price because there was no warranty then took the chap to court when he wouldn't stand over it and took 1k off him. Sound

Or...the dealer took €2,600 off me for a car that had an engine that had a terminal fault in less than 2 months after selling it, completely ignored me when I contacted him to come to some arrangement (despite the law being on my side) and then he only had to pay back €1,000. Sound alright :rolleyes:.

Chuck_Norris

Gary ITR wrote: »

The op stated above that the initial diagnosis of overfilling with oil was off the mark (see what I did there lol)

Apologies Gary. Didn't see that post.

@o/p. what was the final diagnosis then?

Steve_Holt

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

Apologies Gary. Didn't see that post.

@o/p. what was the final diagnosis then?

Main bearing (big end) failure according to the 2nd report. Another report went into a bit more detail saying that it was terminal engine damage with the front of the engine leaking oil and metal parts were protuding through the engine block and that there was a loud banging noise from the engine when cranking over.

I should add that when I submitted the clam I was just looking to have the engine repaired/replaced but after trying all summer I haven't been able to source a suitable engine and thus I've had to buy another car since and the VW Golf that I got less than 2 months use out of, is going to be scrapped this week to try and recover some more of the funds I've lost.