Any point to the PDE?

ViveLaVie

I have a degree in English and French and I'm nearly finished a Master's in English. I'm a bit undecided about what to do next. A lot of people are pushing me to do the PDE but I'm concerned it's a waste of time.

I tried to find information on whether my subjects are oversubscribed or not but could find very little reliable info. Would I be mad to apply for the PDE? I do enjoy teaching (have experience giving grinds etc) but I know that securing a job may be very difficult, that teaching itself is a tough job and there are a number of cuts down the line.

Is there any point at all? Bearing in mind I'd have to save up over the year to even afford the PDE in the first place. Anyone out there with my subjects who has found work? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

rainbowtrout

ViveLaVie wrote: »

I have a degree in English and French and I'm nearly finished a Master's in English. I'm a bit undecided about what to do next. A lot of people are pushing me to do the PDE but I'm concerned it's a waste of time.

I tried to find information on whether my subjects are oversubscribed or not but could find very little reliable info. Would I be mad to apply for the PDE? I do enjoy teaching (have experience giving grinds etc) but I know that securing a job may be very difficult, that teaching itself is a tough job and there are a number of cuts down the line.

Is there any point at all? Bearing in mind I'd have to save up over the year to even afford the PDE in the first place. Anyone out there with my subjects who has found work? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

The first comment I've highlighted: Do you want to be a teacher or is it because you have (presumably) an Arts degree that people are saying to you 'you should/could go teaching'?

Giving grinds on a one to one basis is vastly different from teaching.

There's a lot of competition to get into the PDE and there aren't many jobs out there. The ones that do become available have lots of people applying for them, and they tend to have low hours.

Do you actually want to teach or is this just one of your options when you finish up the masters?

spurious

The job situation is horrendous and has been for years.
I am amazed so many are still doing the PDE and think somehow they will get jobs when other people can't.
We have fully qualified people teaching Maths (supposedly in short supply) in our place still not on full hours after 10 and 12 years.

ViveLaVie

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The first comment I've highlighted: Do you want to be a teacher or is it because you have (presumably) an Arts degree that people are saying to you 'you should/could go teaching'?

Giving grinds on a one to one basis is vastly different from teaching.

There's a lot of competition to get into the PDE and there aren't many jobs out there. The ones that do become available have lots of people applying for them, and they tend to have low hours.

Do you actually want to teach or is this just one of your options when you finish up the masters?

Well... it's hard to say. I do have an interest in teaching, I like the idea of being a teacher (and I don't mean just for the holidays). I enjoy correcting people's work and imparting knowledge I suppose. I am very passionate about my subjects, especially English and I think I would enjoy teaching them and interacting with students.

I know that giving grinds is a very different kettle of fish altogether but I suppose I was just trying to indicate that I do enjoy teaching in general, even if it is a different kind of teaching.

However, I do have other interests too i.e. publishing, film/book critic, media and television, librarianship, teaching english etc. The possibility of me getting a job in any one of these sectors is as unlikely as getting a job teaching, if you rule out emigration.

Regarding the competition to get into the course, with the Master's qualification I'll have 51 points and afaik the points for entry last year were about the 43 mark so I'd be fairly confident of getting a place. This makes me hesitant to apply because I know if I have a place and I've nothing else going on or haven't managed to find alternative work I'll go ahead and accept it and possibly waste 7k and a year of my life. So I'm debating whether to apply at all.

I suppose it is just one option I'm considering, but it is an option I'd like to think about carefully, with the help of advice from unbiased people working in the actual sector itself. It's hard not to be swayed by family and friends urging me to do it, but I know myself that it may not be the wisest choice. But then again, what is?

I do know a few recent graduates that did find work, fairly regular work too, but they teach Biology and P.E. so maybe that's more in demand than English and French? I have heard the U.K. is desperate for English teachers but is that a good reason to do the PDE?

If anyone could give me their experiences of doing the PDE and looking for work after that'd be great.

Spurious, in your opinion it's utter madness so to even consider it? Is the job situation not horrendous for people with my qualifications anyway? Would it be better to get some subbing for a few years rather than be unemployed if I didn't do the PDE?

vamos!

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Well... it's hard to say. I do have an interest in teaching, I like the idea of being a teacher (and I don't mean just for the holidays). I enjoy correcting people's work and imparting knowledge I suppose. I am very passionate about my subjects, especially English and I think I would enjoy teaching them and interacting with students.

I know that giving grinds is a very different kettle of fish altogether but I suppose I was just trying to indicate that I do enjoy teaching in general, even if it is a different kind of teaching.

However, I do have other interests too i.e. publishing, film/book critic, media and television, librarianship, teaching english etc. The possibility of me getting a job in any one of these sectors is as unlikely as getting a job teaching, if you rule out emigration.

Regarding the competition to get into the course, with the Master's qualification I'll have 51 points and afaik the points for entry last year were about the 43 mark so I'd be fairly confident of getting a place. This makes me hesitant to apply because I know if I have a place and I've nothing else going on or haven't managed to find alternative work I'll go ahead and accept it and possibly waste 7k and a year of my life. So I'm debating whether to apply at all.

I suppose it is just one option I'm considering, but it is an option I'd like to think about carefully, with the help of advice from unbiased people working in the actual sector itself. It's hard not to be swayed by family and friends urging me to do it, but I know myself that it may not be the wisest choice. But then again, what is?

I do know a few recent graduates that did find work, fairly regular work too, but they teach Biology and P.E. so maybe that's more in demand than English and French? I have heard the U.K. is desperate for English teachers but is that a good reason to do the PDE?

If anyone could give me their experiences of doing the PDE and looking for work after that'd be great.

Spurious, in your opinion it's utter madness so to even consider it? Is the job situation not horrendous for people with my qualifications anyway? Would it be better to get some subbing for a few years rather than be unemployed if I didn't do the PDE?

I have a PGDE in French and a Masters. While I haven't been out of work at all, I have been on subbing contracts and poor hours. I will earn around 15k max this year. French jobs are advertised but seem to be very hard to get. I had some unsuccessful interviews last year despite having the MA and a few years experience. I can't comment on English. Is the PDE going to 2 years if you are not starting in September? I wouldn't advise training as a teacher unless you are 100% sure of it. I love my job but am seriously struggling with the negativity of the situation. Crap hours, no security, lots of hols but no money to enjoy them and constant anti-teacher media. I love my job and am still happy to put up with the bad get up and go in the mornings, but I'm not sure if this would be possible if I had just chosen teaching because I didn't know what else to do with my degree.

ViveLaVie

vamos! wrote: »

I have a PGDE in French and a Masters. While I haven't been out of work at all, I have been on subbing contracts and poor hours. I will earn around 15k max this year. French jobs are advertised but seem to be very hard to get. I had some unsuccessful interviews last year despite having the MA and a few years experience. I can't comment on English. Is the PDE going to 2 years if you are not starting in September? I wouldn't advise training as a teacher unless you are 100% sure of it. I love my job but am seriously struggling with the negativity of the situation. Crap hours, no security, lots of hols but no money to enjoy them and constant anti-teacher media. I love my job and am still happy to put up with the bad get up and go in the mornings, but I'm not sure if this would be possible if I had just chosen teaching because I didn't know what else to do with my degree.

Do you have another subject you teach too or is all your work in teaching French? Wouldn't be the worst subject for employment opportunities so?

Yes I think it might be two years after this, I'm not totally sure, must check it out. I didn't apply for this September as I wanted a year off from education to work a bit and hopefully earn the money for it, if I did choose to do it.

I think I've been a bit inarticulate here in trying to explain my interest in teaching. It is something I would be very interested in but what holds me back is the job situation and the fact that I'd be firmly closing the door on the possibility of a different career. I don't mean that what I really want to do is publishing and I'd only do teaching because it's the expected thing to do with an Arts degree, but rather that I'm equally interested in teaching and one or two other options as well. I suppose what I'm trying to say really is that I think I would enjoy it and be good at it, but there seems to be little incentive to do it as it's so tough to get a job and, as you said, people are quite negative about it. I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons I suppose before I jump in headfirst.

So, in your opinion, is it worth it?

vamos!

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Do you have another subject you teach too or is all your work in teaching French? Wouldn't be the worst subject for employment opportunities so?

Yes I think it might be two years after this, I'm not totally sure, must check it out. I didn't apply for this September as I wanted a year off from education to work a bit and hopefully earn the money for it, if I did choose to do it.

I think I've been a bit inarticulate here in trying to explain my interest in teaching. It is something I would be very interested in but what holds me back is the job situation and the fact that I'd be firmly closing the door on the possibility of a different career. I don't mean that what I really want to do is publishing and I'd only do teaching because it's the expected thing to do with an Arts degree, but rather that I'm equally interested in teaching and one or two other options as well. I suppose what I'm trying to say really is that I think I would enjoy it and be good at it, but there seems to be little incentive to do it as it's so tough to get a job and, as you said, people are quite negative about it. I'm trying to weigh up the pros and cons I suppose before I jump in headfirst.

So, in your opinion, is it worth it?

I don't know. I am also recognised to teach German and have ended up teaching different subjects too- not always French. I don't really consider the employment opportunities to be good. I work a 5 day week but only do a couple of hours a day. I could fit all of my classes into less than 2 days but end up in school from 9-4 most days. I actually spend more time prepping and correcting that I do teaching. I have also moved all over the country for work and have literally applied for most French and/or German jobs for the last 4 years. I have always had some kind of work, but never 22 of my own hours (or half of that!). It really is your decision. I love my job and would be so sad to have to go into another sector having built up some experience but I am not sure that I would have done my dip if I could do it all over again...

ViveLaVie

vamos! wrote: »

I don't know. I am also recognised to teach German and have ended up teaching different subjects too- not always French. I don't really consider the employment opportunities to be good. I work a 5 day week but only do a couple of hours a day. I could fit all of my classes into less than 2 days but end up in school from 9-4 most days. I actually spend more time prepping and correcting that I do teaching. I have also moved all over the country for work and have literally applied for most French and/or German jobs for the last 4 years. I have always had some kind of work, but never 22 of my own hours (or half of that!). It really is your decision. I love my job and would be so sad to have to go into another sector having built up some experience but I am not sure that I would have done my dip if I could do it all over again...

You have years of experience on me and two languages (I hear languages are among the more in demand subjects at the moment) so I can only imagine the job situation for me once I qualified would be a lot starker. English, in Ireland at least, is one of the most popular PDE subjects so I can only assume I wouldn't have a hope of being employed to teach that.

I hope you manage to get a full-time position soon, and if you don't I hope the work will continue to be enjoyable and rewarding. Thanks for your input.

I suppose I'll start looking into other options for a career, although tbh I doubt that I'll have great prospects there either!

Seanchai

vamos! wrote: »

I don't know. I am also recognised to teach German and have ended up teaching different subjects too- not always French. I don't really consider the employment opportunities to be good. I work a 5 day week but only do a couple of hours a day. I could fit all of my classes into less than 2 days but end up in school from 9-4 most days. I actually spend more time prepping and correcting that I do teaching. I have also moved all over the country for work and have literally applied for most French and/or German jobs for the last 4 years. I have always had some kind of work, but never 22 of my own hours (or half of that!). It really is your decision. I love my job and would be so sad to have to go into another sector having built up some experience but I am not sure that I would have done my dip if I could do it all over again...

I feel for you here. Last year I got the 22 hours; this year I got half those hours, and only found out in August. What I did ask of the principal was that she work the timetable so that I only come in 3 or 4 days because I'd save money by not coming in. Would you ask for something similar? My principal was very understanding of my reasons. She gave me a 4-day week so that was some improvement. It is only since then I have discovered that if I had a three-day week with the same hours I would be entitled to some social welfare assistance. In financial terms, when rent allowance, medical card and dole is taken into account I would be about €50 per week better off not working on these hours (especially with fuel being so expensive). There is a hell of a lot wrong with a system like this.

I think I'll stop my union dues soon as the principal purpose of the unions appear to be to defend what established teachers have, allocating mere lip service to condemning the subsistence-level contracts which the Department of Education give newly-qualified teachers as standard. As a profession, the proliferation of these contracts is doing more to bring the teaching profession back to about the year 1905 than even the salary cuts. And in trade union land the order of the day in 2012 can be summed up succinctly and precisely thus: don't rock the boat.

An impeccably good start indeed to the state-created crisis in teaching would be made by immediately pulling the plug on new entrants into all PDE courses where there is an oversupply of teachers of the subjects in question. At this stage, it is evident that the sole purpose of these courses is to enhance the finances of the universities in question, not to supply a useful service to society. Has any teachers' union called for such a ban yet? Has any politician?