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26k mountain run vs 40k marathon

  • 20-05-2012 6:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭


    Hi,

    I did a 26k mountain race yesterday ( in 2hrs 4 mins) which I was delighted with but am wondering wats the difference on the body & training etc to get thru another 14 k which would equal a marathon. Say if I was to aim for de DCM. Yesterday's course was very hilly wit steep downhills. Obviously the mountains are more forgiving on the body also with the softer ground also.

    Any thoughts appreciated


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,549 ✭✭✭✭Krusty_Clown


    A 26k mountain race is a tough undertaking, but it a completely different beastie to a marathon (not easier or harder, just different). If you want to prepare for a marathon, the best thing to do is follow a marathon training plan, but if you're already comfortably doing 26k (in two hours) you'll have no problem following a marathon training plan. By the way, marathons are typically 42kms and change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Hi,

    I did a 26k mountain race yesterday ( in 2hrs 4 mins) which I was delighted with but am wondering wats the difference on the body & training etc to get thru another 14 k which would equal a marathon. Say if I was to aim for de DCM. Yesterday's course was very hilly wit steep downhills. Obviously the mountains are more forgiving on the body also with the softer ground also.

    Any thoughts appreciated

    It means your cardio system can take 2 hours of continouus running. If you want to get through a marathon youll have a slight head start, thats all. You'd probably be able for a long road run of 90-105 mins now. Find a marathon schedule and slot in at a mileage you think you can manage. DCM is a long way off.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭get on your bike


    T runner wrote: »
    Hi,

    I did a 26k mountain race yesterday ( in 2hrs 4 mins) which I was delighted with but am wondering wats the difference on the body & training etc to get thru another 14 k which would equal a marathon. Say if I was to aim for de DCM. Yesterday's course was very hilly wit steep downhills. Obviously the mountains are more forgiving on the body also with the softer ground also.

    Any thoughts appreciated

    It means your cardio system can take 2 hours of continouus running. If you want to get through a marathon youll have a slight head start, thats all. You'd probably be able for a long road run of 90-105 mins now. Find a marathon schedule and slot in at a mileage you think you can manage. DCM is a long way off.


    Cheers for replies. Yeah was kinda thinking it's a different beast alright but have a bit of training done to date.

    Would yis consider the road to be harder than the mountains as a matter of interest


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    Cheers for replies. Yeah was kinda thinking it's a different beast alright but have a bit of training done to date.

    Would yis consider the road to be harder than the mountains as a matter of interest

    This is a perfect analogy to comparing apples with oranges. A 26k mountain race yesterday ( in 2hrs 4 mins)- what was the climb? terrain? weather conditions? footwear? rainfall? Point is, distance/time on a mountain run won't correlate to (road) marathon performance (all those criteria have lesser impact), and you seem to be trying to gauge expected marathon performance based on a hill run. There's no real performance correlation (beyond knowing you can travel 26k hilly for 186 minutes).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭get on your bike


    and you seem to be trying to gauge expected marathon performance based on a hill run

    I wasn't really. Was just wondering. It was 26k of Wicklow way from roundwood to Enniskerry. Weather was Poxy. Wearing trainers. Wind was full on. not sure of the climbing height but alot of hills involved.

    Basically I was contemplating bringing the training further to the point of being able to do the DCM, knowing that it's. "apples n oranges"


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭Kurt Godel


    and you seem to be trying to gauge expected marathon performance based on a hill run

    I wasn't really. Was just wondering. It was 26k of Wicklow way from roundwood to Enniskerry. Weather was Poxy. Wearing trainers. Wind was full on. not sure of the climbing height but alot of hills involved.

    Basically I was contemplating bringing the training further to the point of being able to do the DCM, knowing that it's. "apples n oranges"

    There's more info. Then you travelled over Djouce, which would slow down anyone. Although mostly on trail; its a decent run.

    If you're wondering if you can "do" the DM based on this run, then yeah, you'll have no problem getting around. If you're wondering what time you'll do the DM based on this run, I'd say a 26k road run would be a better indicator.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,340 ✭✭✭TFBubendorfer


    I ran a marathon last week and a 20k mountainous training run yesterday, and I was a lot more sore after the mountains.

    However, I put that down entirely to my legs not being used to climbing like that and not the fact that the mountain run is tougher than a marathon. You can't really compare the two, they are two different things.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭get on your bike


    I ran a marathon last week and a 20k mountainous training run yesterday, and I was a lot more sore after the mountains.

    However, I put that down entirely to my legs not being used to climbing like that and not the fact that the mountain run is tougher than a marathon. You can't really compare the two, they are two different things.


    It is weird that they seem so different. Like MTBing vs road cycling I guess I'm guessing the mountains are easier on the knees mind. Would that be right ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭BobMac104


    Going up id say its easier on the Knees but not so much coming down.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 830 ✭✭✭ocnoc


    High 20k mountain run is quicker than a road marathon.
    But it depends on your strenghts and type of terrain the mountain run is.

    There was a challenge thrown down, that whatever you run for a ~26km mountain run, you should try go quicker than that for a marathon.
    Saying that, the 26k was Avonbeg, and not the Wicklow Way... so who knows.
    Maybe it'll be a famous predictor work out :P (joke intended)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,307 ✭✭✭T runner


    Cheers for replies. Yeah was kinda thinking it's a different beast alright but have a bit of training done to date.

    Would yis consider the road to be harder than the mountains as a matter of interest

    Harder on body?

    You will recover more quickly from a full on 3 hr mountain race than a full on 3hr road race if you have trained correctly for both. Thats because a road race requires you to repeat the same stride continously and therefore breaks down the muscles used more than a mountain run, which uses a number of different stride types.

    Harder during race?

    You dont get pain in the marathon until the latter section. You get pain with every climb in a mountain run and during the latter section.

    Harder to do well?

    A mountain run may be harder to do well in (relativeto fitness) because pacing is more complicated and technique is a bigger factor.
    There is more pain interspersed during a mountain run so more temptation to slack off and lose time on climbs. This contrasts with a marathon where teh temptation to slow only comes near the end.

    What was the name of the mountain race you did?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 236 ✭✭acurno


    Head down to Ballyvaughan in Clare this weekend to find out which is harder

    http://www.clareburrenmarathonchallenge.com/

    42k mountain run.

    Toughest marathon I've done. (9 to date)

    Epic (if the weather holds......).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,082 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    The likes of the Wicklow Way Trail (http://www.imra.ie/events/view/id/944/) is significantly easier than a marathon imo despite the climb/terrain in my experience.

    Something like Circuit of Avonbeg (http://www.imra.ie/events/view/id/834/) in damp underfoot conditions would be comparable time and effort wise to a marathon but significantly easier on the legs as you've nice soft underfooting in place of hard asphalt.

    Even the Mourne Way Marathon which is 42km with a significant amount of climb in the first half, I found I recovered much quicker from than Dublin, possibly due to the nature of the terrain, possibly because I died aerobically half way through and wasn't able to hammer it for the second half. I didn't have the feeling of unable to walk down stairs afterwards anyway.

    If you're used to training in the mountains, I wouldn't underestimate the adaptations needed to keep your legs going for a similar period of time on road. I've done some quite hefty length mountain races without issue but often end up injured when I try switching to road running.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,122 ✭✭✭Peterx


    The circuit of avonbeg is probably close to marathon time but is much much easier on the body and requires less training input- for a hillrunner..

    Circuit of avonbeg in the dry + clear skies = reach time
    Circuit of avonbeg in misty slop = predicted time

    Ocnoc - as a predictor it's hardly likely to trouble macmillan though;)

    The marathon is much harder for a hillrunner then the circuit of avonbeg. you get huge recovery in hillruns with different running styles and speeds and of course the sheer pleasure of being out on the hills wondering where the other lads disappeared off to!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 268 ✭✭get on your bike


    T runner wrote: »
    Cheers for replies. Yeah was kinda thinking it's a different beast alright but have a bit of training done to date.

    Would yis consider the road to be harder than the mountains as a matter of interest

    Harder on body?

    You will recover more quickly from a full on 3 hr mountain race than a full on 3hr road race if you have trained correctly for both. Thats because a road race requires you to repeat the same stride continously and therefore breaks down the muscles used more than a mountain run, which uses a number of different stride types.

    Harder during race?

    You dont get pain in the marathon until the latter section. You get pain with every climb in a mountain run and during the latter section.

    Harder to do well?

    A mountain run may be harder to do well in (relativeto fitness) because pacing is more complicated and technique is a bigger factor.
    There is more pain interspersed during a mountain run so more temptation to slack off and lose time on climbs. This contrasts with a marathon where teh temptation to slow only comes near the end.

    What was the name of the mountain race you did?

    It was a local school fundraiser. They called it the wickla way challenge


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