Surveyor and possible alternatives

marvin42

Hi
We might be lucky and our offer for a house (build somwhere 1970 - 1980) will be accepted. From what we could see the house is in need for some work (flooring, wallpaper etc...)
I would like (if we go to sale agreed) to have a competent person,that would have with me together a second look at the house.
I don't know what is the background/education of surveyors in Ireland, but id like to have someone that actually can show me some weaknesses of the house more than just getting a written report.....

so here my questions:
-what training doe Surveyors usually have, and how can i find a good one?
-whom else would you ask to do check the house while i am with him?
-Is there any benefit from a written report from a "official surveyor (legal etc..)?

Liam D Ferguson

Getting a written structural report doesn't confer any additional legal protection. Such reports are usually worded to state that if the surveyor misses something, s/he can't be held liable as it would be virtually impossible to see every possible defect without taking the house apart brick by brick.

But if a survey does come up with something that requires attention, you can refuse to sign contracts to buy the house until it's fixed to your satisfaction or the price dropped by the estimated cost of repair.

engineermike

Liam D Ferguson wrote: »

Getting a written structural report doesn't confer any additional legal protection. Such reports are usually worded to state that if the surveyor misses something, s/he can't be held liable as it would be virtually impossible to see every possible defect without taking the house apart brick by brick.

But if a survey does come up with something that requires attention, you can refuse to sign contracts to buy the house until it's fixed to your satisfaction or the price dropped by the estimated cost of repair.

Our Structural surveys are not worded in such a manner.
The initial site survey is a 'visual inspection' - And takes into account 'signs' of damage.
- Recommendations are then contained in the report of any further testing we in our professional opinion believe is warranted for the protection or our Client / the buyer. This of course is at your own discretion.
Our Professional Indemnity insurance stipulates we act with in the bounds and guidelines of our profession - As set out by the IEI
- Also taken into account prevalence of issues relating to the build standard at the time & local knowledge of building issues in many cases.
- Energy advice (remedial, or replacement & recommendations) - is also a component of our survey as this has an ever increasing running cost for a homeowner going forward.
The 'wishy / washy' way in which the BER certification is provided in most property transactions at present tends not to aid the end user of the home with a rating attributed and the cert proper and recommendations remaining with the solicitors until sale has been completed. A Completely useless exercise.
- Any notable boundary issues on site or breaches in the building regulations what would cause problems should you wish to modify the home or re sell down the line are detailed.
- 'Aftermarket modifications' to the property - i.e. extension, attic conversion etc. - would also call for close scrutiny - as in many cases they are not in compliance or require substantial works.

These are just some of the many items and points under review during a structural engineering survey - If you wish to see exactly what level of detail is contained in this type of report, P/ M me and I'll send you a link to a survey we use as a sample to allow clients gain familiarization with the process proper,
hope this was helpful,
MIke F

Liam D Ferguson

Hi Mike,

Sorry - my post wasn't a criticism of such disclaimers - just pointing out to marvin42 that the survey itself confers little or no additional legal rights on him if he buys a particular house. Occasionally I've had to explain to clients that a structural survey is not some magical perpetual insurance policy against all future structural issues that may arise - "if a slate blows off the roof in a storm in ten years' time, no you can't sue the surveyor for not spotting that the nail holding that particular slate were showing signs of wear..."

If you survey a house and subsequently a structural issue arises (at some unspecified point in the future) that you couldn't have been reasonably expected to spot, I presume the house owner can't sue you because you didn't spot it? That would be an unreasonable burden on you.

That said, I always recommend that any client of mine arranges a survey. If you're going to spend hundreds of thousands on a property, surely you can spend a few hundred euro to have a professional inspect it?

engineermike

Hi Liam,
I fully accept you position in that context. I would agree and take particular issue with professionals addendum of boiler plate language to reports - while not providing due diligence for their clients during work practice - survey - audit or the current media discussion of the architectural practice of :
"opinion of substantial compliance of building regulations"

Last Mondays story in the IT - is a prime example:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0514/1224316065469.html

Not all are guilty of working in this manner or failing within their various professional roles.
Kind regards,
Mike F

Bigcheeze

marvin42 wrote: »

Hi
We might be lucky and our offer for a house (build somwhere 1970 - 1980) will be accepted. From what we could see the house is in need for some work (flooring, wallpaper etc...)

Given the age of the house don't be surprised if the surveyors report recommends re-wiring and replacement of the hot water system which are significant costs but best done at the same time as significant decoration work.

Houses built in the seventies tend to have iron pipework which eventually corrodes and starts leaking.

marvin42

thanks for the answers so far. has ever one of you been present when the actuall survey was done? and will costs be less for a survey without written report?

engineermike

marvin42 wrote: »

thanks for the answers so far. has ever one of you been present when the actuall survey was done? and will costs be less for a survey without written report?

Hi -
Survey without written report would be worthless - and just advice. Most likely too much detail to take on board verbally - and I've yet to be asked to provide a survey without report (in a pre-purchase inspection).

Usually a client or prospective buyer meets at the property - at least after one or two hours to allow the engineer to have the inspection underway. At that point any verbal concerns can be talked through.
However as they say the devil is in the detail - and after the property survey a number of findings must be crossed checked and the full report written and sent.
If you have advice from a 3rd party in the construction sector the survey report will act as discussion point and detail of points that need addressing in either the short term ownership or medium term ownership of the building. Also if a renegotiation in price with the vendor is warranted etc.
Regards,
Mike f

stressederic

marvin42 wrote: »

Hi
We might be lucky and our offer for a house (build somwhere 1970 - 1980) will be accepted. From what we could see the house is in need for some work (flooring, wallpaper etc...)
I would like (if we go to sale agreed) to have a competent person,that would have with me together a second look at the house.
I don't know what is the background/education of surveyors in Ireland, but id like to have someone that actually can show me some weaknesses of the house more than just getting a written report.....

so here my questions:
-what training doe Surveyors usually have, and how can i find a good one?
-whom else would you ask to do check the house while i am with him?
-Is there any benefit from a written report from a "official surveyor (legal etc..)?

I just had a survey done on a property. To be honest I was being really stingy and dreading the expense of getting one done, particularly as surveyor stressed that he couldnt lift floorboards or get up on the roof etc. I am delighted I did get one done. We met up with surveyor as he did his work and then we received a suprisingly detailed report. We are now going to use this report as a basis for renegotiating the agreed price. It might end up saving us a lot more money in the end. Surveyors name was Peter Carey. I got his name from boards.ie, would really recommend him!