Issues after buying a car

Owryan

Posted this in the Legal Discussion forum but was asked to post here also.

Apologies to MODS if i ve broken any rules.

Original Thread : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056646080

person A sells a car to person B , A agrees to a payment plan and signs over the logbook. person B drives away with car and logbook.

Who owns the car ?

Can person A demand the cars return ? just turn up and forcibly take the car ?

That is all im asking .

Garda opinion is that the car is possession of the buyer and if it is taken without permission then it is car theft

Owen

Payment plan?

dahamsta

IMHO, if yerone signed the VLC, then she sold the car and it's tough tatas. But I'd take the advice of the bods on legal and use my standard get-out clause: "I'm not getting involved."

hi_im_fil

Whoever has the logbookin their name legally owns the car I would have thought?

Anan1

Is there any written evidence other than the signed logbook of a deal having been made? If not then my advice to your ex is to return the car and treat it as a lesson learned, and my advice to you is to stay well out of it.

Owryan

Owen wrote: »

Payment plan?

Yeah, its an inter family thing so pretty messy .

Main concern is the seller : Threatening to take back the car, report the logbook stolen and sell the car on when they get a replacement. .

Anan1

Owryan wrote: »

Yeah, its an inter family thing so pretty messy .

Main concern is the seller : Threatening to take back the car, report the logbook stolen and sell the car on when they get a replacement. .

I can't see how your partner could even prove what price was agreed for the car, much less that she paid it. How could she possibly own it on foot of some unwritten 'payment plan'?

Owryan

hi_im_fil wrote: »

Whoever has the logbookin their name legally owns the car I would have thought?

Thats what i and the gardai thought.

Anan1

Owryan wrote: »

Thats what i and the gardai thought.

Whoever has the logbook in their name is the registered owner, but that doesn't necessarily make them the legal owner. She hasn't paid for the car, has she?

Why wasn't the signed log book posted off? With that done, and the keys and car in possession of the new owner than the theft threat goes out the window. Some folks really love making life difficult for themselves.

lol at the legal lads sending you here.

Yawns

Anan1 wrote: »

I can't see how your partner could even prove what price was agreed for the car, much less that she paid it. How could she possibly own it on foot of some unwritten 'payment plan'?

Verbal contract which would be backed up by the seller signing the log book and handing over the keys. OP as I said if your ex decides to try the legal way, she has everything on her side but the family will be split over it.

If she is deciding to keep the car, she has the keys and I assume that she has reported to the guards that a threat of theft has been made.

Owryan

RoverJames wrote: »

Why wasn't the signed log book posted off? With that done, and the keys and car in possession of the new owner than the theft threat goes out the window. Some folks really love making life difficult for themselves.

lol at the legal lads sending you here.

The only reason the log book wasnt posted off was the simple fact it was a Saturday, tbh there was no hint that this was gonna happen, my ex got a car and her sister was delighted to be rid of it as she never drove it and couldnt afford to keep it insured .

Anan1

Yawns wrote: »

Verbal contract which would be backed up by the seller signing the log book and handing over the keys. OP as I said if your ex decides to try the legal way, she has everything on her side but the family will be split over it.

What verbal contract? What if the sister were to say that she signed the book on the understanding that she would be paid for the car by draft on the following day?

MarkR

Anan1 wrote: »

Yawns wrote: »

Verbal contract which would be backed up by the seller signing the log book and handing over the keys. OP as I said if your ex decides to try the legal way, she has everything on her side but the family will be split over it.

What verbal contract? What if the sister were to say that she signed the book on the understanding that she would be paid for the car by draft on the following day?

If the sister is going to report the log book stolen, she's going to have to report the car stolen, as well as forging her signature. And she also didn't report the car stolen yet.

Did the seller sign the log book?

Owryan

MarkR wrote: »

If the sister is going to report the log book stolen, she's going to have to report the car stolen, as well as forging her signature. And she also didn't report the car stolen yet.

Did the seller sign the log book?

yes, she signed it. Just found out she has reported the car stolen

Yawns

Anan1 wrote: »

What verbal contract? What if the sister were to say that she signed the book on the understanding that she would be paid for the car by draft on the following day?

I'm not sure if the OP wrote it in this thread or the other but his ex has the test messages agreeing to a payment plan. I'm surprised the other thread wasn't just moved over completely.

So the buyer has car, keys, logbook with sellers signature and text messages whereby a payment plan was agreed.

Seller has now reported the car stolen.

OP get your ex to take pictures of the log book. Bring logbook and text message to the guards and have them notified that a false allegation has been made. If the sister has informed the guards that your ex stole the car then she is in a lot of trouble. Knowingly reporting a sold car as stolen as well as making false allegations against someone is serious.

Send that logbook to Shannon by registered post and ring them to inform them that the car was legally transferred into the ownership of your ex. Also inform them that the previous owner will be trying to get a replacement log book. Give them all details such as date/time of sale.

The logbook in itself will be proof of a valid contract. The text messages will be further proof along with possession of the vehicle and keys.

colm_mcm

Just give the car back and take her off the Christmas card list.
Even if you legally win this, it'll cause trouble down the line

Yawns

colm_mcm wrote: »

Even if you legally win this, it'll cause trouble down the line

Agreed.

This is gonna be the cause of so much hassle and I'd imagine it's probably only going to be to the value of a few hundred euros.

Owryan

Yawns wrote: »

Agreed.

This is gonna be the cause of so much hassle and I'd imagine it's probably only going to be to the value of a few hundred euros.

I agree, its so silly and petty , ffs the car is a 98 almera .

Any way it looks like the gardai have stepped in and put some laws down. Basically settle it now or "be done for making a false statement"

Yawns

I can't believe the sister was brazen enough to actually report it as stolen. The fact that you have the proof she shouldn't be given a choice to settle it imo. She should be charged and then she may learn her lesson the hard way.

dahamsta

The damage is done on the family front now, and who needs an ahab like that in their lives anyway? Keep the car, tell them to fork themselves, and ignore the rest of it.

Drummerboy08

Lol at people fighting over a 98 Almera. :eek:

Just give the sister the car back, and buy something else. There's hundreds of cars out there, buying a car is hard enough without this hassle.

mickdw

Maybe Im confused here but why are alot of people on the side of the person who bought the car yet failed to pay for it?
Regardless of the various levels of stupidity involved throughou the process, If I agreed that type of deal with a family member, I would sure as hell take it back if they didnt pay up as agreed.
I know the 'buyer' might be in a reasonably strong position - holding car plus logbook andI agree that reporting it stolen is beyond silly but the 'buyer' is still totally in the wrong here having failed to pay for the car. Or am I missing something?

colm_mcm

Think the deal was only struck this weekend mick.

knotknowbody

I would not give the car back, can't believe people are recommending this, both buyer and seller agreed a price and payment plan, buyer has car, keys, logbook signed by seller and texts confirming payment plan, she should tell her sister to fcuk off that the car is hers now and if she wasn't happy to sell it she shouldn't have agreed, just because it's family doesn't mean the normal rules of a deal go out the window.

jimbomalley

Give the car back and go elsewhere. Pretty crazy the goings on over a 98 almera. Cleary this sister is coming across as a bit crazy the way she is acting, no need to further aggravate her

leeroybrown

mickdw wrote: »

Maybe Im confused here but why are alot of people on the side of the person who bought the car yet failed to pay for it?
Regardless of the various levels of stupidity involved throughou the process, If I agreed that type of deal with a family member, I would sure as hell take it back if they didnt pay up as agreed.
I know the 'buyer' might be in a reasonably strong position - holding car plus logbook andI agree that reporting it stolen is beyond silly but the 'buyer' is still totally in the wrong here having failed to pay for the car. Or am I missing something?

They agreed a payment plan via text message. €100/month. It's a '98 Almera so that's somewhere probably between four and six months.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Just give the car back and take her off the Christmas card list.
Even if you legally win this, it'll cause trouble down the line

That might be simple if the buyer hadn't already scrapped their own car for parts value due to buying the car. They're going to end up out of pocket if they just reverse the deal and give it back.

Personally, I wouldn't return it. The family 'damage' is already done and the seller sounds like they deserve it. Complete the payments on schedule and never trust a word they say again.

colm_mcm

leeroybrown wrote: »

That might be simple if the buyer hadn't already scrapped their own car for parts value due to buying the car. They're going to end up out of pocket if they just reverse the deal and give it back.
.

Any situation where a 98 almera was an upgrade and where the car was scrapped would suggest that it was past it's best anyway?

leeroybrown

colm_mcm wrote: »

Any situation where a 98 almera was an upgrade and where the car was scrapped would suggest that it was past it's best anyway?

Oh. I'd agree. I presume it was an €100-200 end of lifer but the buyer will still be left without a "car" because of the deal.

colm_mcm

Yes but we'd have to go on the basis that the 2 sisters will eventually put this episode past them, the buyer hanging onto the other sisters car won't be helpful and if the buyer takes the high ground on this at least she can hold her head up and move on

Anan1

knotknowbody wrote: »

just because it's family doesn't mean the normal rules of a deal go out the window.

Actually, it does. If it were a stranger then it'd only be about the car, it's a completely different thing when family are involved. You can be confident that this thing about the car is only a proxy for a deeper issue.

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yes but we'd have to go on the basis that the 2 sisters will eventually put this episode past them, the buyer hanging onto the other sisters car won't be helpful and if the buyer takes the high ground on this at least she can hold her head up and move on

+1. And, OP, be very careful that their eventual rapprochement doesn't involve pinning blame for this on you. Getting involved in other peoples internal family business rarely ends well, no matter how good your intentions.

bazz26

Never buy or sell to/from a family member/friends or an ex. It always ends in pain as this thread shows.