Dismissed after 16 weeks of service without notice

Gingles

Hi Everyone on this forum,

I had started an initial 6 weeks contract on 7 November last year. On the day that the contract was supposed to expire, we were asked to stay on for a week more, when, I received an e-mail, from the recruitment agency who placed me, congratulating me on securing a further 10month contract, starting 3 January, with a slightly higher rate of pay. I was delighted, to say the least. I applied for my entitled annual leave, when the roster came around and this was approved for 1 week from 1 March to 7 March, returning on the 8th. A few days before I left work for my holidays, my supervisor congratulated me on the high standard of work i was giving and that there were very few errors on my work. On the day of my return, at 17h39 I received a text message advising me not to return to work the following day, but to contact my agent instead. Totally shocked, and after spending quite a bit of my savings, thinking i had a job to return to, I contacted my agent as advised by text. The agency told me that the client had decided to terminate my contract, possibly because they needed someone with more experience. Now, I have over a year's collections experience, compared to two of the people who started with me in that job, who had no prior experience working at all. This was their first jobs and one of them had not even the leaving certificate.
Anyway, I read somewhere that I was entitled to a proper reason and notice after 13 weeks of service and on a fixed term contract. I was not offered another position by the agent, who assured me that everything was done in a legal way. My question is if anyone on this forum knows about how i can proceed next and whether i am right in feeling that i was unfairly treated by not receiving notice or even pay in lieu of notice?
Thank you
Gingles

fasttalkerchat

If your contract is with an agency I don't think there's much you can do about it.

drunkmonkey

How did you end up with a weeks Holidays, 6/7 Weeks in you would only have clocked up 2.4 days holidays. Not sure how it works when someone is on a temporary fixed term contract. Ive a feeling you took holidays a bit to early after starting work and a dim view might have been taken of it, not your fault but I can see how a potential employer might view it, puts them in a position where they have to get a temp to cover the temp.
Contact citizens advice to find out your rights but I doubt you have much.
You could try sending your cv directly to the boss that praised you, it would mean if they took you on directly it would be cheaper than getting you from the agency, it might be something they might conside. Worth a try.

wmpdd3

I think the OP had 16 weeks completed from Nov to March, so about 8 days holidays worked up.

Gingles

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

If your contract is with an agency I don't think there's much you can do about it.

And why is it that agencies are above the law? Why can they get away with not giving me notice or reason, which is what i'm entitled to on a fixed term contract, already as from 13 weeks of service on.:(

Gingles

drunkmonkey wrote: »

How did you end up with a weeks Holidays, 6/7 Weeks in you would only have clocked up 2.4 days holidays. Not sure how it works when someone is on a temporary fixed term contract. Ive a feeling you took holidays a bit to early after starting work and a dim view might have been taken of it, not your fault but I can see how a potential employer might view it, puts them in a position where they have to get a temp to cover the temp.
Contact citizens advice to find out your rights but I doubt you have much.
You could try sending your cv directly to the boss that praised you, it would mean if they took you on directly it would be cheaper than getting you from the agency, it might be something they might conside. Worth a try.

Thank you to all for your suggestions. We were told in there, to put in for annual leave already in January, it was about 2 weeks into the start of the new year, when they came around with a roster, on which we could fill in our time required for annual leave. And, after discussing it with the boss of that department, she approved it straight away. So, if she had a problem with it, then why send the roster around and why approve my leave. Its just so frustrating when I dont know what i've done wrong.[IMG]http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/redface.Plus I had 8 days holidays worked up.[/img]

tatli_lokma

Gingles wrote: »

And why is it that agencies are above the law? Why can they get away with not giving me notice or reason, which is what i'm entitled to on a fixed term contract, already as from 13 weeks of service on.:(

they're not. The issue is that your contract is with the agency. Unless the agency have terminated your contract with them, it is still in force. Essentially you are subcontracted if you like. The agency are your employer, and the contract basically ties you to them and they send you where you are needed. The company you were temping in no longer needs you. It is a real shame, but that is the way it goes.

anyway, recruitment agency contracts are very basic, and they don't provide you with any guarantees of a set number of hours or pay other than minimum wage.

As far as recruitment agency contracts go, you can't rely on any of them. It is worth being on the books of more than one at any time so you have more chance of getting work.

drunkmonkey wrote:

You could try sending your cv directly to the boss that praised you, it would mean if they took you on directly it would be cheaper than getting you from the agency, it might be something they might conside. Worth a try.

You could try this, but if the agency finds out they will charge them anyway - the OP will have got their job based upon work previously carried out under the agency contract. This entitles them to their fee anyway. It has to be a certain amount of time after the OP left that place of work before they could be employed again with out paying a fee to the agency. Usually within 12 months you still have to pay, but different agencies have different terms and conditions.

Gingles

Little Ted wrote: »

they're not. The issue is that your contract is with the agency. Unless the agency have terminated your contract with them, it is still in force. Essentially you are subcontracted if you like. The agency are your employer, and the contract basically ties you to them and they send you where you are needed. The company you were temping in no longer needs you. It is a real shame, but that is the way it goes.

anyway, recruitment agency contracts are very basic, and they don't provide you with any guarantees of a set number of hours or pay other than minimum wage.

As far as recruitment agency contracts go, you can't rely on any of them. It is worth being on the books of more than one at any time so you have more chance of getting work.


You could try this, but if the agency finds out they will charge them anyway - the OP will have got their job based upon work previously carried out under the agency contract. This entitles them to their fee anyway. It has to be a certain amount of time after the OP left that place of work before they could be employed again with out paying a fee to the agency. Usually within 12 months you still have to pay, but different agencies have different terms and conditions.

Thank you very much for this information, can, may I just ask, even though there was a fixed term set on my contract? my contract was for 10 months. I was'nt just temping randomly. I had a fixed term contract, due to expire in September.

tatli_lokma

Gingles wrote: »

Thank you very much for this information, can, may I just ask, even though there was a fixed term set on my contract? my contract was for 10 months. I was'nt just temping randomly. I had a fixed term contract, due to expire in September.

when the agency sent you to the company, were you employed by the agency and contracted to the company? or did you then sign a contract directly between yourself and the company? Easiest way to know is...did you give your bank details to the company get paid from them or did the agency pay you?

If it was the first, a contract with the agency where they place you with the company for 10 mths, then there is nothing you can do. You still have your initial contract with the agency in place, and whilst this contract does not guarantee a minimum amount of hours, you are covered under this contract for legal purposes:

Citizens info:
The Protection of Employees (Fixed-Term Work) Act 2003 applies to most employees on fixed-term contracts. However, it does not apply to agency workers placed by a temporary work agency at the disposition of a user enterprise or to apprentices, trainees and people in publicly-funded employment schemes such as Community Employment. The Act does apply to agency workers employed directly by an employment agency.

link

If it is the latter, and the company employed you directly on a 10 mth contract, whilst it is unfortunate, there is still little you can do as you were in employment less than one year and it appears that they no longer require your services. They are not bound to keep you for the full 10 mths, just as you are not bound to stay for 10 mths - provided correct notice is served and requirements are met, they can cancel your contract.

However, what matters here is, if your contract was with the company directly then they must advise you that they are ending the contract early:

An employer must provide a fixed-term employee with a written statement as soon as possible, outlining what will trigger an end to the contract. That is, whether the contract will end on a specific date, following completion of a specific task or a specific event. In addition, where an employer intends to renew a fixed-term contract, a written statement must be supplied to the fixed-term employee not later than the date of renewal, setting out the objective grounds justifying the renewal and the failure to offer an open-ended contract.
Employers are obliged to inform fixed-term employees of vacancies for permanent positions. This may be done by means of a general announcement.

From my reading of your posts, and the fact you mention that the company told you to contact the agency for information, I think perhaps you are confusing the company telling the agency that they will need someone for 10 mths, with the company contracting someone for 10 mths. For example, we have a temp here where I am, and we intended to keep her until end of June. However, due to various changes in staff rotas, we now won't need her at all after May. When we requested a temp from the agency, we gave an outline that we would need someone til end of June, but we are in no way bound to this. As we now have to change plans the temp will be (hopefully) redeployed by the agency when she leaves here. I have no doubt however that the agency may well have told the temp she was 'guaranteed' work for 3 mths!

Agencies do this, because they do not want you going in on a temp assignment and also looking for permanent work. It looks bad for the agency if they agree to place someone with a client for say 10 months, only for the temp to leave after 1 month because they found alternative longer term work. It is a game the agencies play to ensure that they have staff placed with clients. The downside of this is that the temps then stop looking elsewhere thinking they have a guaranteed contract when in fact they don't.

My advice to you is to learn a hard learned lesson from this - when dealing with agencies, always have a plan b, c and d in place. Don't limit yourself to one agency. If you get offered a placement for 3/ 6 / 10 mths or whatever, ask the agency if they can place you on a contract directly with the company. They are unlikely to do this for contracts under 6 mths, but might do it for contracts over that.

Basically, if an agency tells you they have a 10mth contract with a client, unless they then provide you with a 10mth contract direct with the client, then take it that you are a temp, plain and simple and can be asked to move on without so much as 24 hrs notice. As a temp I was often told I would be in a place for 6 weeks, only to be told at the end of day 2 that I wasn't needed anymore. As I say the agencies do this so that they can keep you to themselves so to speak, and it limits the chances of them placing you and then you leave a week/month later for a longer or permanent contract.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - the market out there sucks at the moment, and this is just one of those unfortunate situations that has arisen from it.

best of luck with the future anyway.

Gingles

Little Ted wrote: »

when the agency sent you to the company, were you employed by the agency and contracted to the company? or did you then sign a contract directly between yourself and the company? Easiest way to know is...did you give your bank details to the company get paid from them or did the agency pay you?

If it was the first, a contract with the agency where they place you with the company for 10 mths, then there is nothing you can do. You still have your initial contract with the agency in place, and whilst this contract does not guarantee a minimum amount of hours, you are covered under this contract for legal purposes:



link

If it is the latter, and the company employed you directly on a 10 mth contract, whilst it is unfortunate, there is still little you can do as you were in employment less than one year and it appears that they no longer require your services. They are not bound to keep you for the full 10 mths, just as you are not bound to stay for 10 mths - provided correct notice is served and requirements are met, they can cancel your contract.

However, what matters here is, if your contract was with the company directly then they must advise you that they are ending the contract early:



From my reading of your posts, and the fact you mention that the company told you to contact the agency for information, I think perhaps you are confusing the company telling the agency that they will need someone for 10 mths, with the company contracting someone for 10 mths. For example, we have a temp here where I am, and we intended to keep her until end of June. However, due to various changes in staff rotas, we now won't need her at all after May. When we requested a temp from the agency, we gave an outline that we would need someone til end of June, but we are in no way bound to this. As we now have to change plans the temp will be (hopefully) redeployed by the agency when she leaves here. I have no doubt however that the agency may well have told the temp she was 'guaranteed' work for 3 mths!

Agencies do this, because they do not want you going in on a temp assignment and also looking for permanent work. It looks bad for the agency if they agree to place someone with a client for say 10 months, only for the temp to leave after 1 month because they found alternative longer term work. It is a game the agencies play to ensure that they have staff placed with clients. The downside of this is that the temps then stop looking elsewhere thinking they have a guaranteed contract when in fact they don't.

My advice to you is to learn a hard learned lesson from this - when dealing with agencies, always have a plan b, c and d in place. Don't limit yourself to one agency. If you get offered a placement for 3/ 6 / 10 mths or whatever, ask the agency if they can place you on a contract directly with the company. They are unlikely to do this for contracts under 6 mths, but might do it for contracts over that.

Basically, if an agency tells you they have a 10mth contract with a client, unless they then provide you with a 10mth contract direct with the client, then take it that you are a temp, plain and simple and can be asked to move on without so much as 24 hrs notice. As a temp I was often told I would be in a place for 6 weeks, only to be told at the end of day 2 that I wasn't needed anymore. As I say the agencies do this so that they can keep you to themselves so to speak, and it limits the chances of them placing you and then you leave a week/month later for a longer or permanent contract.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news - the market out there sucks at the moment, and this is just one of those unfortunate situations that has arisen from it.

best of luck with the future anyway.

Little Ted, thank you ever so much for this information. And it is sad, because I am the only one who was asked to leave out of the group of 11 people. The rest are still there and my ex colleague told me that they found a replacement for me, so I am feeling that maybe something went on that i am not aware of. Or something that i was only half aware of. There were people in there who were making grave mistakes on accounts and I kept coming across mistakes from the same person. They were not really mistakes, but more negligence. The same person kept just pushing accounts through and not following procedures and not reading data on accounts properly. I pointed out the mistakes to my supervisor, who told me to keep diary of all the mistakes. Sadly, it turned out that the supervisor is a distant relative of the person who was making the mistakes and i didnt know about this. So maybe this was also not in my favor. But as you said, its a dog eat dog market out there, and I suppose i'll just have to accept it. Thank you ever so much for all your help, and advice. It certainly shed loads of light on my situation.

tatli_lokma

Its a shame you are in this situation, and sometimes in trying our best to show that we are interested and willing, we inadvertantly work against ourselves - in this case pointing out errors a family member was making. This may well have something to do with it - then again it might not have anything to do with it. All you have are suspicions. It could simply be because you took time off - it gave them a chance to try someone else and they preferred them. You just don't know.

If your agent is any good (possibly not, but you never know!) if I were you I would be pushing them to look for feedback as to why you were not kept on. They might not bother, seeing as they have a replacement in for you so they are getting their money anyway, but its worth a try. It would be useful to see what they liked/disliked about your work practices. If it is something genuine that gets highlighted at least you can work on it and improve for the future. Also it would be worth quizzing the agent, because if the company did have something negative they have reported, then the agent might be reluctant to place you again - if this is so you need to know so you don't have your hopes up.

Whatever happens, take from it the positive. You were previously praised. You did a good job. Focus on that and hope for better in the future.

Gingles

Little Ted wrote: »

Its a shame you are in this situation, and sometimes in trying our best to show that we are interested and willing, we inadvertantly work against ourselves - in this case pointing out errors a family member was making. This may well have something to do with it - then again it might not have anything to do with it. All you have are suspicions. It could simply be because you took time off - it gave them a chance to try someone else and they preferred them. You just don't know.

If your agent is any good (possibly not, but you never know!) if I were you I would be pushing them to look for feedback as to why you were not kept on. They might not bother, seeing as they have a replacement in for you so they are getting their money anyway, but its worth a try. It would be useful to see what they liked/disliked about your work practices. If it is something genuine that gets highlighted at least you can work on it and improve for the future. Also it would be worth quizzing the agent, because if the company did have something negative they have reported, then the agent might be reluctant to place you again - if this is so you need to know so you don't have your hopes up.

Whatever happens, take from it the positive. You were previously praised. You did a good job. Focus on that and hope for better in the future.

Little Ted! You are nothing short of genius! I already feel a lot more positive and feel like at least i will pursue the reason as to why i was dismissed, even if its only to improve, which is already a lot for me. Thank you ever so much.

tatli_lokma

Gingles wrote: »

Little Ted! You are nothing short of genius! I already feel a lot more positive and feel like at least i will pursue the reason as to why i was dismissed, even if its only to improve, which is already a lot for me. Thank you ever so much.

aw shucks!
I will graciously accept your compliment, although history may (definitely will) prove you wrong! lol