Player development 2011/12 season

profitius

Anyone else agree that its been one of the best seasons yet in player development in Irish rugby? Not only the players who broke through to become regulars for their provinces but the underage sides are doing well also.

The Ireland U20s won 4 from 5 matches including beating France away. Not bad for a team who are a few years behind in physical development.

Leinster are kicking on in terms of player development. Fair play to them they're always looking to improve underage structures. Connacht won the U20 interpros. Theres good work being done behing the scenes there. Ulster are doing well and theres even signs that Munster are making progress.

Another encouraging sign was the the U18s beat a much bigger French team, playing some cracking rugby (watching the video lately I can see why theres alot of hype around Harrison Brewer) along the way. Heres highlights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ofSnWGk28

So onwards and upwards. The national team has its problems but even when BOD and POC retires, theres the next generation of players coming through who will be the best yet.

Fishooks12

I think all the talk of the "golden generation" underachieving is a load of bull

I really think Irish rugby is going to go from strength to strength in the next few years

If you were to try and pick a team for the next world cup there is literally over a hundred players that could be involved

Tox56

This 'Golden generation' has inspired hundreds of young players, I think we are only starting to see the effect they had. Leinster in particular just have so many players to chose from coming out of schools, some of them are bound to make it.

ormond lad

Tox56 wrote: »

This 'Golden generation' has inspired hundreds of young players, I think we are only starting to see the effect they had. Leinster in particular just have so many players to chose from coming out of schools, some of them are bound to make it.

The big effect on playing numbers in Leinster is the youths game where there is now more kids registered as youths players in leinster than schools
While the schools are producing plenty of players it is the youths game where the real growth will be in the future as the youths game is exploding in numbers in leinster and the other provinces

RoundBox11

Wow that irish u18 scrum really got destroyed :S . That really emphasizes the whole problem with the scrum in schools rugby. The replacement tighthead just looked like an ordinary flanker. Although in fairness that french front row was twice their size.

Development is looking very good atm. Ulster have a load of young centres coming through especially.

Maybe in 8 years time we might see Brewer at 12 alongside Chris Farrell at 13. That would be interesting.

shuffol

Its been a good season for 2nd rows, after the WC this was the area of the side I was most concerned about for the future. This season Tuohy and Ryan have shown themselves to be top class locks, Toner has shown a lot of promise and should be an option for Ireland in the future. Flanagan looks a decent player and I'd still be hopeful of Nagle coming through. Caldwell had a great season for Bath and Henderson looks like the best prospect we've seen in that position since POC. Also Mick Kearney looks like he could be a quality player too.

profitius

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Wow that irish u18 scrum really got destroyed :S . That really emphasizes the whole problem with the scrum in schools rugby. The replacement tighthead just looked like an ordinary flanker. Although in fairness that french front row was twice their size.

Development is looking very good atm. Ulster have a load of young centres coming through especially.

Maybe in 8 years time we might see Brewer at 12 alongside Chris Farrell at 13. That would be interesting.

The French pack were much bigger. The Irish scrum was always going to go backwards. Doesn't mean they won't nd up better though.

Chris Farrell and Brewer would be a big center pairing! Good to see plenty of options for the coming years. Luke Marshall is another to watch out for. If he can get over his injuries he'll be a fine player.

shuffol wrote: »

Its been a good season for 2nd rows, after the WC this was the area of the side I was most concerned about for the future. This season Tuohy and Ryan have shown themselves to be top class locks, Toner has shown a lot of promise and should be an option for Ireland in the future. Flanagan looks a decent player and I'd still be hopeful of Nagle coming through. Caldwell had a great season for Bath and Henderson looks like the best prospect we've seen in that position since POC. Also Mick Kearney looks like he could be a quality player too.

Henderson looks the best prospect coming through. Brian Hayes in Munster is also not too bad.

bilston

profitius wrote: »

The French pack were much bigger. The Irish scrum was always going to go backwards. Doesn't mean they won't nd up better though.

Chris Farrell and Brewer would be a big center pairing! Good to see plenty of options for the coming years. Luke Marshall is another to watch out for. If he can get over his injuries he'll be a fine player.



Henderson looks the best prospect coming through. Brian Hayes in Munster is also not too bad.

Henderson's biggest problem is that some see him as a back rower. He reminds me a bit of Tom Croft, he's a good athlete and comfortable both in the second row or back row. It will be interesting to watch his progress next season and where he plays. I hope he comes through in the second row but I have a feeling that Ulster may be preparing him as a replacement for Ferris for when the time comes.

Anyway there are loads of young promising players coming through. The likes of Leavy and Brewer at U18 level, then there are guys like Olding at U19 level and then at U20 level we have Henderson, Gilsenan, McGrath, Jackson, Hanrahan, Farrell and Leyden and I expect big things from Nelson and Sherlock at the JWC.

The issue isn't replacing 99% of the so-called Golden Generation, the problem is replacing BOD and to an extent POC. Maybe in Henderson we have someone who can get close to POC but it's way too early to even guess at that, however there is nobody and there probaly will be nobody close to BOD for another 20 years.

Think of this, Brian O'Driscoll was born in 1979, the same year Mike Gibson retired. Those two are many peoples greatest Irish players of all time and that goes to show how rare they are.

profitius

bilston wrote: »

Henderson's biggest problem is that some see him as a back rower. He reminds me a bit of Tom Croft, he's a good athlete and comfortable both in the second row or back row. It will be interesting to watch his progress next season and where he plays. I hope he comes through in the second row but I have a feeling that Ulster may be preparing him as a replacement for Ferris for when the time comes.

Anyway there are loads of young promising players coming through. The likes of Leavy and Brewer at U18 level, then there are guys like Olding at U19 level and then at U20 level we have Henderson, Gilsenan, McGrath, Jackson, Hanrahan, Farrell and Leyden and I expect big things from Nelson and Sherlock at the JWC.

The issue isn't replacing 99% of the so-called Golden Generation, the problem is replacing BOD and to an extent POC. Maybe in Henderson we have someone who can get close to POC but it's way too early to even guess at that, however there is nobody and there probaly will be nobody close to BOD for another 20 years.

Think of this, Brian O'Driscoll was born in 1979, the same year Mike Gibson retired. Those two are many peoples greatest Irish players of all time and that goes to show how rare they are.

We won't get another BOD. We will get world class players and more of them in more areas.

Henderson should stay in the second row I think. Backrow is an area that Ireland produces alot of players. Theres also arguments for putting him in the second row. Whereever he ends up hes going to be a very good player. He is more powerful looking than Croft IMO.

padraig.od

shuffol wrote: »

Its been a good season for 2nd rows, after the WC this was the area of the side I was most concerned about for the future. This season Tuohy and Ryan have shown themselves to be top class locks, Toner has shown a lot of promise and should be an option for Ireland in the future. Flanagan looks a decent player and I'd still be hopeful of Nagle coming through. Caldwell had a great season for Bath and Henderson looks like the best prospect we've seen in that position since POC. Also Mick Kearney looks like he could be a quality player too.

Keep and eye on Foley in Munster. I'd rate him ahead of Nagle.

Quint2010

Be interesting to see if Brewer gets moved back to 8 by Terenure/Ireland next season. He still has another year to go in school and would have two years if he wasn't going into sixth year next year.

Iron Hide

padraig.od wrote: »

Keep and eye on Foley in Munster. I'd rate him ahead of Nagle.

I'd agree alright, Foley looks a brighter prospect though there was a recent photo of Nagle, Holland, Laulala and Downey floating about where Nagle looked like he'd been doing some serious gym work. I'd have him at well in excess of the 106kg he's listed at on the Munster website.

bilston

Iron Hide wrote: »

I'd agree alright, Foley looks a brighter prospect though there was a recent photo of Nagle, Holland, Laulala and Downey floating about where Nagle looked like he'd been doing some serious gym work. I'd have him at well in excess of the 106kg he's listed at on the Munster website.

Why isn't Nagle ghettign more games for Munster? 18 months ago he won the man of the match award against a strong Australian side and I haven't seen him since...now I don't watch every Munster game but I'd watch their big ones and I don't remember him playing at all...honestly by now I'd have hoped he'd be asking questions of the Ireland squad never mind trying to get a game for Munster!

Has he been injured? Just not kicked on? Hindered by the large queue of second rows at Munster? Combination of all the above?

CIARAN_BOYLE

bilston wrote: »

Why isn't Nagle ghettign more games for Munster? 18 months ago he won the man of the match award against a strong Australian side and I haven't seen him since...now I don't watch every Munster game but I'd watch their big ones and I don't remember him playing at all...honestly by now I'd have hoped he'd be asking questions of the Ireland squad never mind trying to get a game for Munster!

Has he been injured? Just not kicked on? Hindered by the large queue of second rows at Munster? Combination of all the above?

All of the above, he has had a few minor injuries, supposedly he has been on a S&C program to bulk up a bit more, a bad attitude as well, at the business end of the 2010/2011 game he asked to be released for AIL action rather than sit on the bench in a dead rubber league match, and then you have POC, DOC, Ryan, MOD, and Holland ahead of him.

RoundBox11

Iron Hide wrote: »

I'd agree alright, Foley looks a brighter prospect though there was a recent photo of Nagle, Holland, Laulala and Downey floating about where Nagle looked like he'd been doing some serious gym work. I'd have him at well in excess of the 106kg he's listed at on the Munster website.

Is this the one your talking about?



He looks like he's put on a bit of weight alright. He was really really light for his height 2 years ago. Think he was like 95kgs then.

I think he's been injured tho. I still hope he can come back with a bang. He did look very good when he was at his best. He's only 23 after all so he has plenty of time to get back

ambid

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

All of the above, he has had a few minor injuries, supposedly he has been on a S&C program to bulk up a bit more, a bad attitude as well, at the business end of the 2010/2011 game he asked to be released for AIL action rather than sit on the bench in a dead rubber league match, and then you have POC, DOC, Ryan, MOD, and Holland ahead of him.

Is the bad attitude, to which you refer, his wanting to be released for the AIL match, or have I read that wrong. I don't understand what's wrong with that, unless I'm missing something?

CIARAN_BOYLE

ambid wrote: »

Is the bad attitude, to which you refer, his wanting to be released for the AIL match, or have I read that wrong. I don't understand what's wrong with that, unless I'm missing something?

To be honest I saw it as disrespectful to Munster. He was told Munster wanted him in the team sure it was on the bench but it was still playing for Munster and he asked, can I go play AIL instead. He ended up on the bench

Maybe its just me but I thought it was pretty bad. Disrespectful to the people who were paying his wages but that was just me. Munster retained him for the bench for the game in the end but the incident would have pissed me off if I was his boss.

RoundBox11

profitius wrote: »

The French pack were much bigger. The Irish scrum was always going to go backwards. Doesn't mean they won't nd up better though.

Chris Farrell and Brewer would be a big center pairing! Good to see plenty of options for the coming years. Luke Marshall is another to watch out for. If he can get over his injuries he'll be a fine player.



Henderson looks the best prospect coming through. Brian Hayes in Munster is also not too bad.

The first time i saw Luke Marshall play was in the O2 challenge about 2 years ago and i couldnt help thinking he was destined to be a superb player. He absolutely dominated that game.

He seems to be a real talent. I hope Ulster keep him in the centre rather than at 10.

If the provinces play their cards right, we could have a really stacked squad in 5 years, especially in the centre with guys like Marshall, O'Malley, Griffen, Cave, McFadden, Earls, Spence, Farrell, JJ Hanrahan, Barnes, McSharry and Brewer (although maybe its too early to know with him) all beginning to emerge

Monty Burnz

profitius wrote: »

Another encouraging sign was the the U18s beat a much bigger French team, playing some cracking rugby (watching the video lately I can see why theres alot of hype around Harrison Brewer) along the way.

Wasn't Brewer playing in the back row a couple of years ago?

edit: ah, answered a few posts later...