Help!

red_j08

My Mini Joe Duffy Motor's Dilemma :

* Routine service was done for my Mini 'One' on the 10th of December 2011
* Confident that it is in perfect condition, I drove it down to Ennis Co Clare on Xmas day.
* On the motor way near Limerick, indicator light lit on the dash board.
* Mini Hand book says 'engine fault with adverse effect on exhaust emissions'
* Handbook states 'what to do'- you can continue your journey but moderate your speed and exercise due caution. Have the car check as soon as possible.
* I drove the car for another hour in a moderate speed to reach my destination.
I could feel the engine has lost 50 percent of it's power.
* Contacted Joe Duffy motors (my dealer garage) and after diagnostic, they said it's an engine trouble, apparently the have to open up the upper part of the engine to fixed it.
*Estimated repair cost was 3,000 Euro but since 'I have a clean service history' with them Joe Duffy will shoulder the cost.
* I ended up paying 20 percent (Euro 264.50) of the parts they have apparently ordered from Germany and put in.
* Got my Mini back on the road on the 4th of January 2012.
* Joe Duffy told me there is a year's warranty on the parts they replaced.
*Just a week ago on the 9th of this month May 2012 ( just over 3 months since they fixed it), the same 'indicator light' shows up on my dash board. I could feel the same 50 percent loss of power from the engine.
* I rang Joe Duffy garage and told them about the car's trouble and I think that it's the same problem.
* The service guy whom I spoke to on the phone said, I could not say it is the same problem unless we can check the car.
* The car was towed in to Joe Duffy's garage the following day Thursday 10th of May.
* I haven't heard from Joe Duffy's people until I rang them the next Monday.
* This time only to be hit with the bad news that they diagnosed a different trouble this time.
* Joe Duffy people said the problem is the 'Valve Tronic Control Unit' has to be replaced and it will cost Euro 650, labor is free!
* I rang 2 BMW dealer to get the cost of this and they quoted me 'Euro 296 and the other one is Euro 280'.
* I felt like I am being ripped off? Or does the labor cost another Euro 350?
* I felt I was being lied to? (same indicator lights showed up and yet it's another problem?)

* Should I let Joe Duffy garage fixed my Mini?
* Or should I look for another garage?

PLEASE HELP ME! Thanking you in advance for incoming views and advises.

MuppetCheck

I'm starry eyed.

Ded_Zebra

If the same work is going to be done somewhere else at a fraction of the price I would bring it there (as long as the people carrying out the work are equally reputable).

Nissan doctor

Obviously I don't know what your original problem was but the valvetronic actuators often give trouble on these and cost around what you were quoted by the other dealers.

Keep in mind that your are dealing with one of the most unhelpful and expensive dealers in the country so would expect to be landed with huge bills.

I would recommend having the problem independently diagnosed and priced.

red_j08

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

If the same work is going to be done somewhere else at a fraction of the price I would bring it there (as long as the people carrying out the work are equally reputable).

@ Ded_Zebra, thanks, I think I will do that. Going away for my hols and Eur650 is a lot to spend on a car, they 'supposedly fixed' 3 months ago. Thank u for the input.

Nissan doctor

red_j08 wrote: »

@ Ded_Zebra, thanks, I think I will do that. Going away for my hols and Eur650 is a lot to spend on a car, they 'supposedly fixed' 3 months ago. Thank u for the input.

Well without knowing if the first fault had any connection to the second the 'supposedly fixed' comment may not be valid.

Do you have details of what was repaired the first time? Invoice etc?

red_j08

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Obviously I don't know what your original problem was but the valvetronic actuators often give trouble on these and cost around what you were quoted by the other dealers.

Keep in mind that your are dealing with one of the most unhelpful and expensive dealers in the country so would expect to be landed with huge bills.

I would recommend having the problem independently diagnosed and priced.

I could not agree more with you Nissan doctor, I have heard loads of stories about this garage. One thing that hit me i: I took up TLC with my Mini and it is good for 5 years; it means whatever fixes and labors, will be free of charge. If the other garage quoted me just half of their estimate (even less than half), then why is it Euro 650? For the hidden labor cost? So the TLC is a load of 'CRAP'?!

Would it be good to ring Joe Duffy Motors and tell them about what the other dealers quoted me and ask them why the extra charge of Euro 396?

And thank you Nissan doctor...

red_j08

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Well without knowing if the first fault had any connection to the second the 'supposedly fixed' comment may not be valid.

Do you have details of what was repaired the first time? Invoice etc?

@Nissan doctor, yes the invoice states:

1. set gaskets
2. gasket
3. bolt set
4. gasket
5. gasket
6. gasket
7. clamp
8. hex nut
9. torx bolt
10. exh valve
11. clip
12. gasket
13. o ring

description of goods reads:

carry out test confirm fault stored in cylinders 1 and 2. carried out compression test; confirm no compression on cylinders 1 and 2. rocker cover and cylinder head. removed all valves and inspected. replaced.

I haven't got a clue on these terms, I'm useless with cars...
They could be right...

celticcrash

Why dont you tell them that you will bring in the part yourself. Buy it for 280 and let them do the labour.
I am sorry to say this, but you are being ripped off
I was given a quote once of 650 for labour.
I went to another garage and the labour cost 40. Car perfect.
Some scum garages will rip you totally off if they think they will get away with it.

Nissan doctor

red_j08 wrote: »

@Nissan doctor, yes the invoice states:

1. set gaskets
2. gasket
3. bolt set
4. gasket
5. gasket
6. gasket
7. clamp
8. hex nut
9. torx bolt
10. exh valve
11. clip
12. gasket
13. o ring

description of goods reads:

carry out test confirm fault stored in cylinders 1 and 2. carried out compression test; confirm no compression on cylinders 1 and 2. rocker cover and cylinder head. removed all valves and inspected. replaced.

I haven't got a clue on these terms, I'm useless with cars...
They could be right...

Sounds strange, Imo there is more to that then what's on the invoice. Another problem these can suffer from is failing timing chain tensioners, causing the chain to slip seems a more likely cause of the damage that would require the above repair.

It also fits with BMW's policy of never giving a customer the impression that any failure was caused by poor manufacturing/faulty parts. Did they offer you any verbal explanation of how the first issue happened?

red_j08

celticcrash wrote: »

Why dont you tell them that you will bring in the part yourself. Buy it for 280 and let them do the labour.
I am sorry to say this, but you are being ripped off
I was given a quote once of 650 for labour.
I went to another garage and the labour cost 40. Car perfect.
Some scum garages will rip you totally off if they think they will get away with it.

@celticcrash, I will do that..I am currently ringing garages to find a better deal. The pain of not having a car when ur working miles away is crazy

Thanks celtic...

red_j08

Nissan doctor wrote: »

Sounds strange, Imo there is more to that then what's on the invoice. Another problem these can suffer from is failing timing chain tensioners, causing the chain to slip seems a more likely cause of the damage that would require the above repair.

It also fits with BMW's policy of never giving a customer the impression that any failure was caused by poor manufacturing/faulty parts. Did they offer you any verbal explanation of how the first issue happened?

The verbal explanation was : The valves on the engine has to be replaced, as there is no compression on cylinders 1 and 2. And since you have a 'clean service history' with us; Joe Duffy will shoulder the cost.

And yes you are right again 'the pride and reputation of BMW', they never said a word when I told them ' I thought BMW makes good cars'. My Toyota jeep (back home) is now 7 years old, but I never once has a problem with it.

Nissan doctor

red_j08 wrote: »

The verbal explanation was : The valves on the engine has to be replaced, as there is no compression on cylinders 1 and 2. And since you have a 'clean service history' with us; Joe Duffy will shoulder the cost.

And yes you are right again 'the pride and reputation of BMW', they never said a word when I told them ' I thought BMW makes good cars'. My Toyota jeep (back home) is now 7 years old, but I never once has a problem with it.

This is the thing, there very few situations where valve's 'just' fail. Its much more likely that something else failed and damaged the valves.

You've no idea of the mindset behind BMW, their training courses and in house attitude towards their brand and other brands is the stuff that Hitler would be proud of.:eek:

mickdw

The TLC pack is a service inclusive deal is it not? I dont think it includes labour for breakdowns outside warranty?

Did the price you got from the other dealers include fitting or was it just the price of the part.

alexmcred

mickdw wrote: »

The TLC pack is a service inclusive deal is it not? I dont think it includes labour for breakdowns outside warranty?

Did the price you got from the other dealers include fitting or was it just the price of the part.

Correct Mick it only covers serving costs for the first five years up to a certain mileage

red_j08

mickdw wrote: »

The TLC pack is a service inclusive deal is it not? I dont think it includes labour for breakdowns outside warranty?

Did the price you got from the other dealers include fitting or was it just the price of the part.

Yes mick, the TLC covers routine service, but they told me, that the part is Euro650, labour is free!

The price I got from the other two dealers is just for the part, that means with Joe Duffy Motors, even though the said the 'labour is free'...I am charge Euro 354 more?

red_j08

You'll gonna love this guys:

Regarding my problem with my MINI in Joe Duffy Garage:

They have decided to lower the price of fixing my car from 650 euro down to 368 Euro!

Told them , I can't afford the 650 and that when I rang other BMW dealer, the price of the part was only 280 euro.

So, its now 368 euro. Sounds dodgy to me? What ya think?

Plug

I wonder did the Valve Tronic Control Unit cause the valves to break the first time round? Fairly sure thats the unit that controls the variable valve timing on this engine.
They carried out a compression test and found broken valves.

They replaced them but never knew why they broke? Then when the car engine fails the second time they just say it is the Valve Tronic Control Unit acting up.
There is a high chance the valves broke because of something else failing. Its rare for a valve to just break(but not impossible). I may of been the Valve tronic unit that cause piston to valve damage the first time.


Maybe red_j08, print the above and show it to their service manager or a master technician.

red_j08

Plug wrote: »

I wonder did the Valve Tronic Control Unit cause the valves to break the first time round? Fairly sure thats the unit that controls the variable valve timing on this engine.
They carried out a compression test and found broken valves.

They replaced them but never knew why they broke? Then when the car engine fails the second time they just say it is the Valve Tronic Control Unit acting up.
There is a high chance the valves broke because of something else failing. Its rare for a valve to just break(but not impossible). I may of been the Valve tronic unit that cause piston to valve damage the first time.


Maybe red_j08, print the above and show it to their service manager or a master technician.

Thanks a lot Plug. That is a good idea, but since they claim to do quality service with great mechanics in the house, do I really need to remind them?!

I was thinking when I collect the car, I will ask for the Valve Tronic Unit (the part they said was replaced) just for souvenir.

Thank u Plug.

Plug

red_j08 wrote: »

Thanks a lot Plug. That is a good idea, but since they claim to do quality service with great mechanics in the house, do I really need to remind them?!

I was thinking when I collect the car, I will ask for the Valve Tronic Unit (the part they said was replaced) just for souvenir.

Thank u Plug.

And they will say 'its gone back to Germany'.

Nissan doctor

If the valvetronic actuator actually broke then it can certainly damage valves, we've had a couple in the last few months that have actually snapped and cause damage.

If the electronic part of the unit failed then it won't damage anything, you'll just be in limp home mode.

red_j08

Plug wrote: »

And they will say 'its gone back to Germany'.

@PLug, i bet they will....lol...thanks

red_j08

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If the valvetronic actuator actually broke then it can certainly damage valves, we've had a couple in the last few months that have actually snapped and cause damage.

If the electronic part of the unit failed then it won't damage anything, you'll just be in limp home mode.

@Nissan doctor, haven't got a clue about cars and its parts...i dont even know, what was the part that was damaged in mine...

at least im glad the price was lowered down :-)

thank u...

damienroe

Spent 11,000 euro with the above on a bmw to be told it needs an engine change!!!!Service?my ass!!!!!

mickdw

You spent 11k on the car or on repairs (hardly)?

prof bambo

this is all very familiar.the only way to deal with these people is to take the legal route otherwise they don't really care!they will take your money but the follow up is very poor.I am currently going through a legal process with my car so cannot say too much but will let you know when it is sorted.Also complain to the top in Germany it will cost them some stripes!!!