Tour of California

GetWithIt

Started yesterday.

GetWithIt

Roche took a spill towards the end of the race but seems to have been allocated the same time as the main group. He appeared to be in a good position to challenge, though hard to say what his aims are these days.


http://www.steephill.tv/players/720/nbcsports/?title=Crash+near+the+finish+of+Stage+1&dashboard=tour-of-california&id=47407884,33399756&yr=2012

Rastapitts

who won the stage?

maloner

http://app.strava.com/rides/8485431

Larens Ten Dams stage 1 of Tour of California stats

Lusk Doyle

Rastapitts wrote: »

who won the stage?

Peter Sagan.

Colonialboy

It will be interesting to see how Deignam and Roche match up.
I guess Deignam will be riding harder , American race and American profile sponsor, whereas Roche will be concentrating on ________ who knows what he concentrates on.
bloody cyclists could make a book full of the excuses and ifs buts, oh hang on he did...
Pity Dan Martin isnt in there.
Id love to see one of them have a perfect season, no coughs, infections, training spills, pizza overloads, dog ate my homework preparations and just see where would they finish given the op in a GT.

Fr D Maugire

I thought Deignan was actually dropped on the climb as I didnt see him in that reduced bunch for a long time but I think riders came back on the flat. It was definitely less than 60 riders at one point but maybe he was there all along. Anyone know if that is correct.

Unluckly for Roche, think he would have finished well up if he had stayed upright. I feel Deignan needs to do something in this race, he was signed as a team leader but has had very little to show this year so far. I thought he would have been more visible this season having been freed from domestique duties at Radioshack.

Inquitus

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

I thought Deignan was actually dropped on the climb as I didnt see him in that reduced bunch for a long time but I think riders came back on the flat. It was definitely less than 60 riders at one point but maybe he was there all along. Anyone know if that is correct.

Unluckly for Roche, think he would have finished well up if he had stayed upright. I feel Deignan needs to do something in this race, he was signed as a team leader but has had very little to show this year so far. I thought he would have been more visible this season having been freed from domestique duties at Radioshack.

Roche got the sametime as the bunch so he is grand.

Rastapitts

who does everyone think will win this? i will guess Nibali

Donerkebab

Colonialboy wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how Deignam and Roche match up.
I guess Deignam will be riding harder , American race and American profile sponsor, whereas Roche will be concentrating on ________ who knows what he concentrates on.
bloody cyclists could make a book full of the excuses and ifs buts, oh hang on he did...
Pity Dan Martin isnt in there.
Id love to see one of them have a perfect season, no coughs, infections, training spills, pizza overloads, dog ate my homework preparations and just see where would they finish given the op in a GT.

*Deignan

Carpenter

Not AGAIN

Colonialboy

Donerkebab wrote: »

*Deignan

so thats it , your complete thoughts on the Tour of Kalifornia summed up as "Deignam .... its an N not an M "... thanks
its going to give me a whole new perspective on viewing the race.

Im enjoying the Tour Of Kalifornia as much as the Tour of Itally, there seems to be alot more racing and less politics and team tactics in both or maybe its just the commentators arent rabbitting on about Cavemdish and Wiggims as much ...

elduggo

the TOC is an awful race and the Giro is the worse for its existence.

It'd make you long for the days when teams go to races because they want to be there, rather than out of obligation to their sponsors.

The Tour of California sums up all that is wrong with professional sport.

dave2pvd

elduggo wrote: »

the TOC is an awful race and the Giro is the worse for its existence.

It'd make you long for the days when teams go to races because they want to be there, rather than out of obligation to their sponsors.

The Tour of California sums up all that is wrong with professional sport.

Not so sure about that.

How many of the teams are US teams? What is the TV and fan exposure like compared to Euro events?
If ATOC is part of cycling's new globalization, then I am all for it.

If you said Tour of Korea or China, then perhaps your point would be valid.

Beached

I never paid much attention to races run without race radio before, but it was interesting for Peter sagan trying to get back to the bunch after a mechanical, and one of his teammates drilling it at the front of the peleton at the same time

Colonialboy

Beached wrote: »

I never paid much attention to races run without race radio before, but it was interesting for Peter sagan trying to get back to the bunch after a mechanical, and one of his teammates drilling it at the front of the peleton at the same time

That was funny to see how he managed to get back to the group after the small crash. He got 3 'sticky' bottles from the team car, each one he flung in the ditch after taking a sip and then a mechanic leans out with a spanner and pretended todo something to his saddle whilst they pushed him another 100 metres up the road. He will probably get a fine.

elduggo

dave2pvd wrote: »

Not so sure about that.

How many of the teams are US teams? What is the TV and fan exposure like compared to Euro events?
If ATOC is part of cycling's new globalization, then I am all for it.

If you said Tour of Korea or China, then perhaps your point would be valid.

I'd liken California to Beijing. If you watched the stage last night you'll have seen that the effort level was pretty low in the peloton. The Bonny Doon climb reminded me of that neutralised stage in the 98 tour when they just rode around at a leisurely pace.

And fair enough, its a big deal for the American teams and riders. But for the likes of Sagan, Nibali, etc? For them I'd guess its as much about appearance money. We'll see the Tour of Colorado later in the summer. I'm sure BMC will insist on Cadel riding that one. Again, a nothing race.

I wouldn't mind the TOC so much if it wasn't keeping some of the top guys from the Giro. Remember too that there was talk of the TOC becoming a 3-week race a couple of years back. They've effectively signalled their intentions to either replace one of the grand tours with it, or to cram in a 4th. That would be a complete disaster.

ROK ON

Elduggo. I was wondering about that. Ie the glasscranking.

Laurels Ten Dam if Rabo posts his ride data on Strava. For stage 1 he spent most of the ride in Zone 1 & 2. Barely hot into Zone 4 and never in Zone 5 in terms of heart rate.

Now I know these guys are super fit, but using HR as a rough gauge of effort, Ten Dam barely broke into a sweat. It was a 4.5 hour very very easy training ride.

elduggo

ROK ON wrote: »

Elduggo. I was wondering about that. Ie the glasscranking.

Laurels Ten Dam if Rabo posts his ride data on Strava. For stage 1 he spent most of the ride in Zone 1 & 2. Barely hot into Zone 4 and never in Zone 5 in terms of heart rate.

Now I know these guys are super fit, but using HR as a rough gauge of effort, Ten Dam barely broke into a sweat. It was a 4.5 hour very very easy training ride.

yes, thats it exactly. When the coverage came on last night and I saw who was in the break (only 2 lads from protour teams and one primarily a sprinter) I figured thats how the stage would be. They didn't even allow any activity in the bunch. All the road captains congregated at the front as if creating a barrier of sorts to prevent attacks on the climb.

Teams/riders will often make no secret of the fact that they participate in certain races for training and little else (Jan Ullrich used to use the giro for this - I'm sure Mark Cavendish is doing the very same thing right now), but it seems there are too many doing this in California for the race to be taken as seriously as they (and US Cycling in general) would like.

Its a safe race. Facilities behind the scenes will be good. The roads are generally wide and the routes appear not all that technical. In other words, perfect for training.

Rastapitts

replace the vuelta with the tour of california as the 3rd grand tour and have it on in september so its not clashing with another grand tour. the vuelta is prob the weakest of the 3 grand tours. Giro the toughest and le tour most prestige. have The Vuelta as a one week race like Paris-Nice etc...

Inquitus

Rastapitts wrote: »

replace the vuelta with the tour of california as the 3rd grand tour and have it on in september so its not clashing with another grand tour. the vuelta is prob the weakest of the 3 grand tours. Giro the toughest and le tour most prestige. have The Vuelta as a one week race like Paris-Nice etc...

Sacrilege!

Fr D Maugire

elduggo wrote: »

the TOC is an awful race and the Giro is the worse for its existence.

It'd make you long for the days when teams go to races because they want to be there, rather than out of obligation to their sponsors.

The Tour of California sums up all that is wrong with professional sport.

Whilst I would agree that California is overhyped, I dont think its to the detriment of the Giro. How many of the guys at California would have been at the Giro if Cali didnt exist. Nibali? maybe, Gesink? No, Horner? No, Leipheimer? No, Danielson? No, Sagan? No, most of the guys in Cali are aiming towards the Tour and probably would have skipped the Giro anyway like Schleck, Menchov, Evans, Kloeden and Dan Martin.

Even back in the day 80/90s, not all riders competed in the Giro either. Just as an example, in 87 the year Roche won the Giro, how many of the big name Tour riders were also there. Delgado, Herrera, Parra, Mottet, Fignon all skipped the Giro. Only Bernard who rode for stage wins and Millar, Lejarreta were in the Giro competing.

When we look at how Contador performed last year at the Tour after winning a tough Giro, it is not hard to imagine why many would skip the Giro for a softer option. Whilst California is not in the same league as the Giro and never should be, it is also not an example of what is wrong in cycling.

elduggo

Rastapitts wrote: »

replace the vuelta with the tour of california as the 3rd grand tour and have it on in september so its not clashing with another grand tour. the vuelta is prob the weakest of the 3 grand tours. Giro the toughest and le tour most prestige. have The Vuelta as a one week race like Paris-Nice etc...

The ASO owns all 3 grand tours so this will never happen. It is also probably why that talk of making the TOC a 3-week tour stopped almost as quickly as it started. They could conceivably punish teams by not allowing them in the Tour de France if they don't treat the Giro with the respect it deserves.

elduggo

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Whilst I would agree that California is overhyped, I dont think its to the detriment of the Giro. How many of the guys at California would have been at the Giro if Cali didnt exist. Nibali? maybe, Gesink? No, Horner? No, Leipheimer? No, Danielson? No, Sagan? No, most of the guys in Cali are aiming towards the Tour and probably would have skipped the Giro anyway like Schleck, Menchov, Evans, Kloeden and Dan Martin.

I would say several. I would say Sagan and Kittel would have done at least the first 2 weeks. You're correct that the GC contenders may not have, but others, particuarly those super-domestiques, either American or on American teams (Jens, Hincapie, etc), certainly would. I'd imagine Levi or Horner would have lead the team in the Giro seeing as the Schlecks will be heading Radioshack at the tour (actually, it will be really interesting to see how Frank does in the tour after his Giro)

Even back in the day 80/90s, not all riders competed in the Giro either. Just as an example, in 87 the year Roche won the Giro, how many of the big name Tour riders were also there. Delgado, Herrera, Parra, Mottet, Fignon all skipped the Giro. Only Bernard who rode for stage wins and Millar, Lejarreta were in the Giro competing.

this is moot. The Giro and Vuelta were both on in late spring/early summer back then. Sean Kelly never did a Giro because of this.

When we look at how Contador performed last year at the Tour after winning a tough Giro, it is not hard to imagine why many would skip the Giro for a softer option. Whilst California is not in the same league as the Giro and never should be, it is also not an example of what is wrong in cycling.

Contador rode a tour that most would be proud of. I know the point you're making but I wouldn't cite Contador as the example here. Maybe John Gadret or Ivan Basso.

The Giro isn't as difficult a parcours this year as last. Last years was ridiculous. This years is quite forgiving and is a well thought out route by the organisers. While contesting GC in both the Giro and Tour is out of the question, riding both successfully certainly isn't.

Fr D Maugire

elduggo wrote: »

I would say several. I would say Sagan and Kittel would have done at least the first 2 weeks. You're correct that the GC contenders may not have, but others, particuarly those super-domestiques, either American or on American teams (Jens, Hincapie, etc), certainly would. I'd imagine Levi or Horner would have lead the team in the Giro seeing as the Schlecks will be heading Radioshack at the tour (actually, it will be really interesting to see how Frank does in the tour after his Giro)



this is moot. The Giro and Vuelta were both on in late spring/early summer back then. Sean Kelly never did a Giro because of this.



Contador rode a tour that most would be proud of. I know the point you're making but I wouldn't cite Contador as the example here. Maybe John Gadret or Ivan Basso.

The Giro isn't as difficult a parcours this year as last. Last years was ridiculous. This years is quite forgiving and is a well thought out route by the organisers. While contesting GC in both the Giro and Tour is out of the question, riding both successfully certainly isn't.

Firstly, Kittel's team wasnt even selected for the Giro, Sagan is barely 22 so doing 2 GTs so close is unrealistic. Levi is not even at RadioShack anymore and will be team leader at the Tour for Quick Step. Horner's focus is also the Tour despite the Schlecks and he has never performed in the Giro anyways. Likewise I can never remember Hincapie being in the Giro, he would prefer to do the race in Philadelphia anyways.

Secondly, how is dropping out of the Giro after 2 weeks any less wrong than guys competing in another race. To me personally, its worse because it shows little respect to the race they are competing in.

You seem to be suggesting that there should be no other races happening during the Giro even though the Dauphine has always overlapped with the Giro as well as other races. Many of the guys who are in California will be heading to the Dauphine afterward.

Previously there was the Classique des Alpes and Midi Libere happening at the same time as the Giro, Tour's of Luxembourg, Belgium still happen. Should they too be scrapped because the local teams prefer some of their big names to compete in their home race like Gilbert in Belgium. There has always been and always will be other races at the same time as the Giro and there has always been different approaches to the Tour which is the ultimate goal.

Simple fact is this, anyone who has an interest in doing the Giro would be at the Giro regardless of what other races are on concurrently. The only guys whose primary focus is California is the US riders/teams, most of whom dont gives a rats ass about the Giro anyway.

elduggo

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Firstly, Kittel's team wasnt even selected for the Giro, Sagan is barely 22 so doing 2 GTs so close is unrealistic. Levi is not even at RadioShack anymore and will be team leader at the Tour for Quick Step. Horner's focus is also the Tour despite the Schlecks and he has never performed in the Giro anyways. Likewise I can never remember Hincapie being in the Giro, he would prefer to do the race in Philadelphia anyways.

Secondly, how is dropping out of the Giro after 2 weeks any less wrong than guys competing in another race. To me personally, its worse because it shows little respect to the race they are competing in.

You seem to be suggesting that there should be no other races happening during the Giro even though the Dauphine has always overlapped with the Giro as well as other races. Many of the guys who are in California will be heading to the Dauphine afterward.

Previously there was the Classique des Alpes and Midi Libere happening at the same time as the Giro, Tour's of Luxembourg, Belgium still happen. Should they too be scrapped because the local teams prefer some of their big names to compete in their home race like Gilbert in Belgium. There has always been and always will be other races at the same time as the Giro and there has always been different approaches to the Tour which is the ultimate goal.

Simple fact is this, anyone who has an interest in doing the Giro would be at the Giro regardless of what other races are on concurrently. The only guys whose primary focus is California is the US riders/teams, most of whom dont gives a rats ass about the Giro anyway.

ok you win, its a great race

Fr D Maugire

Holy ****, Roche lost 3.30 and Deignan over 4 minutes in the TT, bad, bad day for the Irish guys. Apparently the first woman went as fast as them:eek: Expect to see them in the breaks tomorrow.

Rovi

Yer man with the antlers and the big Stars 'n Stripes looked to be going pretty well

dave2pvd

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

Holy ****, Roche lost 3.30 and Deignan over 4 minutes in the TT, bad, bad day for the Irish guys. Apparently the first woman went as fast as them:eek: Expect to see them in the breaks tomorrow.

First woman was Kristen Armstrong though. She regularly beats the majority of the mens' field in TTs. (I wonder where Olivia Dillon finished? She has been riding very well this year).

Regardless, those are huge losses.

Great to see Z take the win though.

ednwireland

se roches TT'ing hasnt improved, wonder if he's going to go for stage wins in the tdf instead of the overall (make more sense imo)

Rastapitts

Agree. time for Roche to go for stage wins rather than the classifications

gaybeer

I suspect that wasn't Roche at full tilt yesterday. It has been well known that Ag2R have been pushing for a stage win as they haven't won anything this year. They have been very aggressive in most stages this far and I would expect Roche to have saved something to really have go over the coming days. He looked pretty good in the break the other day

ROK ON

I watched highlights of first four stages and have concluded that this is the most boring stage race on the calendar. Largely flat straight roads do not contribute to exciting races, particularly if most of the participants are out of their depth and fubar or building form and largely glass cranking.

A ridiculous race. Maybe the organisers should have had a few mountain top finishes at the start, interspersed by sprinter stages.

gaybeer

The next stages are all for the climbers. Sprinters won't have another chance until the final day in LA. I have enjoyed the stages thus far

dooverylittle

The town that pays the most get the finish. So if the town is in the middle of a large plain it will be a flat finish.

elduggo

ROK ON wrote: »

I watched highlights of first four stages and have concluded that this is the most boring stage race on the calendar. Largely flat straight roads do not contribute to exciting races, particularly if most of the participants are out of their depth and fubar or building form and largely glass cranking.

A ridiculous race. Maybe the organisers should have had a few mountain top finishes at the start, interspersed by sprinter stages.

I'd love to know what appearance fees the likes of Nibali are on to be in this race. I'd say its astronomical money, otherwise why would they bother.

el tel

In the TT did I see an ag2r rider on a normal bike with drop bars? He may or maynot have tribars attached (are they even allowed?). Either way, clearly not taking it serious enough!

GetWithIt

That might have been Cherel. I thought he was going to ask Zabriskie for his autograph when he passed him he was rubber necking so much.

griffin100

After 5 stages of sh!te that was feckin brilliant. What a performance.

Fr D Maugire

Well Roche and Deignan done ok on the big climb yesterday, both Top 20. In fact I think Deignan would have finished ahead of Roche if he didnt wait and pace team-mate Rory Sutherland to the finish. He looked good yestreday

ajk24

griffin100 wrote: »

After 5 stages of sh!te that was feckin brilliant. What a performance.

agreed.

great move by gesink. daft one by rsnt. gotta love jens though. hammers it to create the early break and still hangs in with favourites for a long time after being reeled in. i'm thinking of marketing a range of bee flavoured energy products.