Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

New Football Championship Structure

  • 13-05-2012 11:34pm
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭


    The 2012 All-Ireland Football Championship is on the horizon and in fact for those of you who missed it, it commenced last Sunday with Sligo’s visit to the Big Apple to take on New York winning out with ease.

    But, it’s on Sunday week when the real business will begin in earnest as all the contenders for Sam Maguire embark on the road to victory.

    Since Liam O’Neill has taken over the reigns of the GAA presidency he has publicly declared that the GAA faces a significant challenge this summer from other sporting codes and there are plans in place to invest heavily in the marketing of Gaelic games throughout this summer.

    He also raised concerns about the standard of Gaelic football and labelled some aspects of the modern game as “boring” and has asked a committee chaired by Eugene McGee to carry out a detailed analysis of the game.

    Yes, it hard to argue against the fact that there are aspects of the game that need to come under review but in my opinion it’s the structure of the Gaelic football championship rather than the quality of football that has become ” boring”.

    The provincial championships have gone stale with repetitive fixtures every year that do not carry wider appeal for the GAA neutral anymore.

    For too long we have been hostage to tradition, history and geographical divide.

    The time has come for some innovative thinking to restructure the championship in order to to inject fresh impetus into it and as a powerful sporting and cultural association the GAA now needs a leader with a brave vision for change.

    Hopefully Liam O’Neill and Ard Stiúrthóir Pádraic Duffy have the vision, bravery, determination and nous to drive such radical change.

    Radical surgery is required - a new roadmap and a clear vision for the future.

    Whilst it is widely accepted that any change comes with pros and cons, I am outlining my proposal for a restructured League and Championship.

    NEW STRUCTURE

    Both the League and Championship should have more than just a symbiotic relationship - they should be directly linked to each other.

    Such an interconnection would broaden the importance and appeal of early season games providing a ‘level playing field’ to all competing teams.

    Firstly, abandon the National Leagues as they are curently constituted and replace them with Conference style Leagues (Eastern, Southern, Northern, Western Conferences based primarily but not totally on current provincial divides and run over an eight -week period (February/March).

    However, this is no act of self-serving gerrymandering - it’s a redrawing of the traditional boundaries for the good of the game and to put it on a stronger footing in the very challenging sporting environment that we now live.

    In order to split the teams into four groups of eight teams, a redrawing of the provincial boundaries is required.

    London and Wexford will join the Southern Conference and Westmeath, Donegal and Longford will join the Western. Kilkenny may be included, if there is any ambition at county board level to develop football any time in the future.

    After establishing these new groupings a league - sponsored by Allianz - would be contested under the control of the existing provincial councils and with the support and marketing backing of Croke Park.

    For illustrative purposes the groupings would be as detailed below:

    EASTERN CONFERENCE: Dublin (1), Kildare (1), Louth (2), Meath (2), Carlow (2), Wicklow, Laois, Offaly.

    SOUTHERN CONFERENCE: Cork (1), Kerry (1), Waterford (2), Wexford (2), Limerick (2), Clare, Tipperary, London.

    WESTERN CONFERENCE: Galway (1), Mayo (1), Longford (2), Sligo (2), Donegal (2), Leitrim, Roscommon, Westmeath.

    NORTHERN CONFERENCE: Tyrone (1), Armagh (1), Fermanagh (2), Derry (2), Down (2), Monaghan, Cavan, Antrim.

    NB: Teams above allocated/seeded (eg (1) and (2) in brackets) for reference and illustration only - explained below.

    All Allianz Conference Leagues would be run on a round-robin basis over an eight-week period with counties playing four games on Saturdays or Sundays and three games (where possible) played midweek under floodlights.

    Obviously this would require some counties to upgrade their county grounds to include modern floodlighting - a lot of counties have already undertaken such development.

    This initiative will free up additional weekends early in the calendar for clubs games and the U21 Championship.

    The top two counties in each Conference qualify for their Conference final to be played on the first weekend in April with the existing provincial cups awarded to the winners.

    The top five teams in each league (20 counties) qualify seeded (1) or (2) depending on their finishing positions for the All-Ireland Championship Group Stages. Finalists from each Conference League would be seeded (1) with the three other qualifiers seeded (2).

    The bottom three teams in each of the four Conferences (12 counties) proceed to an open draw All-Ireland ‘B’ Championship Group Stage.

    ALL-IRELAND CHAMPIONSHIP: RACE FOR SAM

    The 20 qualifying counties from the Conferences are entered into an open draw - Four groups with five teams in each group.

    When doing the draw the top 8 (Seeded 1 ie first and second in each of February/March Conference Leagues) counties go into one pot with the other 12 counties (Seeded 2) into the other pot - there will be two seeded 1 counties in each group.

    Again for illustrative purposes see below:

    GROUP A: Kildare (1), Kerry (1), Sligo (2), Limerick (2), Fermanagh (2).

    GROUP B: Dublin (1), Galway (1), Meath (2), Down (2), Waterford (2).

    GROUP C: Cork (1), Tyrone (1), Derry (2), Louth (2), Longford (2).

    GROUP D: Mayo (1), Armagh (1), Donegal (2), Wexford (2), Carlow (2).

    Each county plays four matches on a round-robin basis commencing at the beginning of May with group games taking place every two weeks and on alternative weekends allowing for four championship matches every weekend played on Saturday and Sundays ie two matches in both Group A and B and two matches in both Group C and D on alternative weekends with one resting team in each group

    The administrative body for this competition and these games would be Croke Park and the responsibility for marketing etc lies with central powers and the competition’s multi-sponsors.

    This system allows for four championship games each weekend to be played over Saturdays and Sundays and every team will have four championship matches over a ten-week period from May to mid-July.

    The top team in each group qualifies for the All-Ireland SFC quarter-final. The teams in second and third place are drawn against each other to play for an All-Ireland quarter- final berth.

    To assist with framing the developing picture of this Championship we will go with the following examples to fill out the counties to make it to the last-eight in the race for the Sam Maguire.

    (Play-offs for teams finishing second and third in each Group)

    Galway v Armagh; Winner: Galway.

    Wexford v Cork; Winner: Cork.

    Meath v Kildare; Winner: Kildare.

    Sligo v Derry; Winner: Derry.

    So these winners (Galway, Cork, Kildare, Derry) progress to the quarter-final where the group winners (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, Tyrone) away on the opposite side of the draw.

    We will continue with our ‘notional’ championship and the quarrter-final draw throws up the following pairings: Dublin v Galway; Kerry v Cork; Mayo v Kildare; Tyrone v Derry.

    We’ve gone with Dublin, Cork, Kildare and Tyrone as the winners meaning the semi-finals will see Dublin v Cork; Kildare v Tyrone coming face-to-face.

    To complete the picture the magic results predictor says Cork and Kildare will meet in the All-Ireland SFC final - you can ask Larry Tompkins, Shay Fahy or even Brian Murphy who captures Sam!

    ALL-IRELAND ‘B’ CHAMPIONSHIP

    This championship would consist of the 12 counites that finished in the bottom three positions in the four Conference League system.

    The 12 counties would be split into two groups of six and play a round-robin system with five championship games each.

    GROUP 1: Wicklow, London, Leitrim, Antrim, Tipperary, Cavan.

    GROUP 2: Roscommon, Monaghan, Westmeath, Clare, Laois, Offaly.

    The top county in each group qualifies for the All-Ireland semi-final. The teams in second and third place are drawn against each other to play for a place in the All-Ireland semi-finals.

    As with earlier we will use notional results to illustrate.

    Round of Qualifiers (second v third): Laois v Cavan; Roscommon v Tipperary.

    All Ireland semi-finals: Monaghan v Laois; Wicklow v Roscommon.

    All-Ireland Final: Roscommon v Laois.

    The winners of the ‘B’ championship get a ‘team holiday’ to play New York in October.

    REASONS FOR CHANGE

    * A new format would revitalise the image of Gaelic Games making it more marketable and attractive to the general public.

    * The new format would also expand the Gaelic football season with the every game in both competitions proving to be important to the eventual outcome.

    This format will also keep the profile of the Gaelic games in the shop window for a longer period of time and help to compete with the profile of other sporting codes.

    * The existing provincial competitions and powers of their councils would be retained, albeit in a new, more exciting format.

    * All games in both championships (Race for Sam and ‘B’) would be better balanced competitively and the format should eradicate one-sided fixtures and demoralising defeats for some weaker counties.

    * It avoids repetition of annual fixtures between the same counties, which since the introduction of the backdoor system have clearly lost the intensity of proper championship football.

    * All fixtures would be more evenly spread over the summer months with an even amount of teams in action each weekend rather than the existing imbalance that exists at the present time where teams in Munster can be idle for very lengthy tracts of the summer.

    * The general excitement and anticipation of an annual open draw for the group stages would keep the format fresh every year.

    The GAA could go one step further and replicate the format from the Heineken Cup by offering bonus points for three goals scored or for the margin of victory. This may assist in negating overly defensive tactics and encourage a more attacking brand of football.

    * There is a guarantee of two home championship games for all counties which will help boost local economies and individual county board coffers during the summer months.

    * There would be a reduction in costs associated with travel during the Conference Leagues, as a lot of fixtures would be shorter in terms of mileage for the travelling counties.

    * With recent changes to cultures and habits, the introduction of midweek games under lights during the Conference Leagues should attract bigger crowds and therefore an increase in revenue.

    * The new format would allow for greater structure to the club season as Conference League and Championship fixtures could be set well in advance.

    For the most part County Boards would no longer have to plan club fixtures around the fortunes of the county team awaiting to see if they remain in their provincial competitions or have to go travel the current backdoor route.

    With no replays in group stages and a total of four games over ten weeks, some early rounds of club county championships could be played during the summer months helping to complete the club season within the calendar year.

    ISSUES ARISING OUT OF NEW FORMAT

    * The Conference Leagues would be weighted in favour of the stronger teams and chances of a breakthrough by a weaker team would be reduced.

    Victories in recent years like Sligo and Leitrim in Connacht or Westmeath and Laois in Leinster cannot be underestimated in terms of their achievements and what it has done for these counties.

    However, can the GAA afford to wait around once every generation, at best, for one of these momentous occasions?

    * With the season commencing in February, all senior managers will require full access to their players for all conference and championship games.

    This could impact the U21 championship in its current format and create difficulties for most counties.

    Consideration may have to be given to amalgamating the Minor and U21 championships into one U19 All-Ireland competition to run concurrent with the Senior All-Ireland Championship.

    * The Sigerson and the latter stages of the club championships would have to be moved back to the calendar year concluding in late November or early December.

    * There would be the issue of financial loss to players who would require time off work to prepare for midweek confernce games and these costs would need to covered by the GAA in order to increase the profile of the games.

    * There is some potential for one-sided outcomes in the Conference Leagues.

    However, every county deserves the chance to compete for the top prize and achieving qualification to the All-Ireland Championship (Sam Maguire) will be an incentive and a measure of progress for the weaker counties

    Radical change in any organisation can be slow and will always present its own problems.

    The GAA has shown in it’s past that any change to core values and principles can sometimes take considerable time and heated debate.

    However, change is achievable with the right individuals at the helm. Who would have ever envisaged the playing of soccer and rugby in Croke Park ten or 20 years ago.

    As someone who played championship football for many years pre and post backdoor system, the intensity of the provincial championships are dead on their feet.

    The GAA can no longer rely on a season that lasts from August to September only and the must begin to open the doors to change.

    Here’s hoping .... let the debate begin!

    I didn't write this but there are some good ideas in there.

    What do people think?


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,258 ✭✭✭✭DARK-KNIGHT


    I didn't write this but there are some good ideas in there.

    What do people think?
    where did you find it? nice ideas in there alright.

    definately think a new championship layout would spice GAA championship up a bit..

    but then again why flog something that is tried tested and works??


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭MickySticks




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    This was in one of the papers the other day. I think it was written by Ciaran Whelan


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    starting the championship in feb or whenever would be a deathnail, competing against the euros and olympics this year is one thing but competing the premiership and champions league every year, good luck with that :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    starting the championship in feb or whenever would be a deathnail, competing against the euros and olympics this year is one thing but competing the premiership and champions league every year, good luck with that :rolleyes:
    I think it could easily compete against the PL or CL as these happen over a long period every year unlike the Euros or Olympics. However, Championship football is meant for summer thats a fact


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    I think its a very good idea. It wont happen though, too many dinosaurs in the GAA afraid of change


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    I think its a very good idea. It wont happen though, too many dinosaurs in the GAA afraid of change
    Is this really the case or is it just that as it stands the championship structure is as good as it gets. Sure you can make changes to allow weaker teams a chance, change potential match ups etc, but in doing so you will lose some of the tribal fever that bursts out of GAA fans every summer. Will Longford beat Dublin in croke park in the next 20 years. Probably not. Should they get the chance to try as many times as the draw allows it. Absolutely


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,733 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    starting the championship in feb or whenever would be a deathnail, competing against the euros and olympics this year is one thing but competing the premiership and champions league every year, good luck with that :rolleyes:

    How is the GAA championship or the League competing with the EPL or CL exactly ?

    There is rarely a clash between a GAA game and one of the other two.

    Currently the GAAs biggest wintertime rival would be Rabo Direct Rugby which is popular at the moment and on terrestrial TV.

    The proposals in the OP have a lot of merit but I would make some changes.

    There should be no need of a conference final and no need for a Quarter Final playoff, top 2 teams form each group shopuld make up the QFs
    Also mid week games are not a good idea, very tough on the travelling team as players would need to get work time off to travel.
    They did it with a hurling qualifier a few years back, it was Thursday night and Offaly were involved, that's all I remember, and it not a success.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭Prop Joe


    I think it's a disgrace that in Soccer,Ireland must compete against 6 other European teams to get a place in the World Cup while Australia have to compete against 10 teams to qualify for a play-off with a South American team Or how in South America 5 out of the 10 teams qualify for the WC..Very Unfair !!!! It's all the same competition !!

    In the Rugby WC a team like Romania had finished 4th in the European Nations Cup then had to play off with Tunisia for just a place in the Group Stages...Ireland didnt even have to qualify and it's the same competition !!!!!!!!!!!

    It's also very unfair that in The Premier League if you finish 4th you get Champions League,But if you win the League in Scotland you get the same reward,If you win the League in Ireland you don't even get the far!! Not really fair considering it's all the same competition they are entering...

    Also in the Premier League 20 teams enter with really only 3 can win it maybe,they should make 2 leagues or maybe 3.Although people will claim Spurs,Newcastle,Fulham,West Brom,Swansea and Norwich all had good season's...But they won nothing???

    Not every competition in the world is perfect and neither is ours but imagine for 1 minute that the provincial winners this year were say Limerick in Muns,Longford in Leins,Leitrim in the West and Fermanagh up North...That would make them trophy's very important..

    If we got our scheduling right,With a structured break between all games would make it run smoother...& if anyone suggest's extending the championship???? If anything i would cut down the amount of inter-county games and have more club activity.

    We seem to try to structure everything around county players which i guess only represent a tiny percentage of GAA players


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    How is the GAA championship or the League competing with the EPL or CL exactly ?

    There is rarely a clash between a GAA game and one of the other two.

    when exactly are you going to play matches then, there is premier league every saturday at 3pm, match at 5pm, matches on sunday at 2 and 4pm, matches on tuesday and wednesdays nights in championship league

    superleague rugby in england and league of ireland changed their calenders to a summer sport because they knew they couldn't compete with the soccer but gaa will become bigger by competing with the soccer, yeah ok


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    when exactly are you going to play matches then, there is premier league every saturday at 3pm, match at 5pm, matches on sunday at 2 and 4pm, matches on tuesday and wednesdays nights in championship league

    superleague rugby in england and league of ireland changed their calenders to a summer sport because they knew they couldn't compete with the soccer but gaa will become bigger by competing with the soccer, yeah ok
    league of ireland would be in direct competition as it is the same sport and any english sport will be in competition as supporters can only be at one game at a time.

    I follow the EPL but have never missed going to a live gaa match(league or o'byrne cup) in order to watch something on tv.

    Maybe the GAA should look at a way to get people into the grounds(free tickets for first round games) to get them hooked on live sporting events


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,733 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    when exactly are you going to play matches then, there is premier league every saturday at 3pm, match at 5pm, matches on sunday at 2 and 4pm, matches on tuesday and wednesdays nights in championship league

    superleague rugby in england and league of ireland changed their calenders to a summer sport because they knew they couldn't compete with the soccer but gaa will become bigger by competing with the soccer, yeah ok

    The OP suggests a GAA championship season running in two parts, Feb/March and then again summer.

    In reality the timing is little different to the current league and championship calendar.

    Now last time I checked the existence of the EPL and the CL had feck all effect on the League and Championship attendances.
    Most people do not have ESPN and/or Sky sports.

    It's different with Super league, as they and soccer are competing with the very same bodies that attend games in the flesh in certain parts of England.

    LOI soccer is totally different, I'm not sure if you recall but when sky and the EPL came along in 1992/1993 LOI teams got floodlights (paid for by Sky if I am correct) and moved their schedule from Sunday afternoon to Friday/Saturday night.
    And they then moved to summer soccer in about 2003 for other reasons.

    Televised GAA games would have a worse effect on attendance rather than what may be happening between Spurs and Fulham at 5.15 on a Saturday in March.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Is this really the case or is it just that as it stands the championship structure is as good as it gets. Sure you can make changes to allow weaker teams a chance, change potential match ups etc, but in doing so you will lose some of the tribal fever that bursts out of GAA fans every summer. Will Longford beat Dublin in croke park in the next 20 years. Probably not. Should they get the chance to try as many times as the draw allows it. Absolutely

    depends on how you look at it. They restructured the hurling championship a few years ago to a 3 tier championship and I think it was a great success. In the 90s when there was a cannaught hurling championship, I was sick of seeing roscommon be hammered by galway every summer. While in 2007, I seen them win a trohpy in croke park.

    Who wants to see a longford V dublin type match?
    Coming from a weaker county, id rather see roscommon win an allireland B, than "play well" against dublin, and lose by 10 points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Too many league-style games there imo.

    The more knockout the better.


    I actually think the current thing is fine...the best teams usually rise to the top, but there's always the possibility of an upset.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Prop Joe wrote: »
    I think it's a disgrace that in Soccer,Ireland must compete against 6 other European teams to get a place in the World Cup while Australia have to compete against 10 teams to qualify for a play-off with a South American team Or how in South America 5 out of the 10 teams qualify for the WC..Very Unfair !!!! It's all the same competition !!

    In the Rugby WC a team like Romania had finished 4th in the European Nations Cup then had to play off with Tunisia for just a place in the Group Stages...Ireland didnt even have to qualify and it's the same competition !!!!!!!!!!!

    It's also very unfair that in The Premier League if you finish 4th you get Champions League,But if you win the League in Scotland you get the same reward,If you win the League in Ireland you don't even get the far!! Not really fair considering it's all the same competition they are entering...

    Also in the Premier League 20 teams enter with really only 3 can win it maybe,they should make 2 leagues or maybe 3.Although people will claim Spurs,Newcastle,Fulham,West Brom,Swansea and Norwich all had good season's...But they won nothing???

    Not every competition in the world is perfect and neither is ours but imagine for 1 minute that the provincial winners this year were say Limerick in Muns,Longford in Leins,Leitrim in the West and Fermanagh up North...That would make them trophy's very important..

    If we got our scheduling right,With a structured break between all games would make it run smoother...& if anyone suggest's extending the championship???? If anything i would cut down the amount of inter-county games and have more club activity.

    We seem to try to structure everything around county players which i guess only represent a tiny percentage of GAA players

    couple of points.
    Do you really think the 13th (last place available) European team is of the same standard as the 5th South American team? For the last World cup, the comparable teams were Slovenia and Uruguay. Currently ranked 28th and 3rd respectivley. Currently, South America has 5 countries ranked in the top 25.

    Australia have been playing in the Asian qualifiers for the last 5 years, amonsgt 43 other countries.

    Your rugby point and premiership qualification for the CL also proves the same point, that numbers or competition do not equal the opposite strenghts of a different country. The 4th ranked premiership team is arguably much better than the first ranked Scottish team.

    I'm really not sure what the points above are about at all to be honest, it doesnt seem to make much sense.

    But I completley agree with the bolded bit. I too would cut back the scheduling on tinter county games. Some counties can have up to 6 weeks of a break between games and it leaves the club game in the wilderness a bit.

    Wexford were considering postponing the first round of senior games because of the league final there a couple of weeks back, and it would only have affected about 10 players in total. Sacrificing up to 20 games for clubs for the sake of 10 players? Ridiculous. It got sorted, and a bit of clever rescheduling and a committment to play the club games left it in better shape.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    bruschi wrote: »
    couple of points.
    Do you really think the 13th (last place available) European team is of the same standard as the 5th South American team? For the last World cup, the comparable teams were Slovenia and Uruguay. Currently ranked 28th and 3rd respectivley. Currently, South America has 5 countries ranked in the top 25.

    Australia have been playing in the Asian qualifiers for the last 5 years, amonsgt 43 other countries.

    Your rugby point and premiership qualification for the CL also proves the same point, that numbers or competition do not equal the opposite strenghts of a different country. The 4th ranked premiership team is arguably much better than the first ranked Scottish team.

    I'm really not sure what the points above are about at all to be honest, it doesnt seem to make much sense.

    But I completley agree with the bolded bit. I too would cut back the scheduling on tinter county games. Some counties can have up to 6 weeks of a break between games and it leaves the club game in the wilderness a bit.

    Wexford were considering postponing the first round of senior games because of the league final there a couple of weeks back, and it would only have affected about 10 players in total. Sacrificing up to 20 games for clubs for the sake of 10 players? Ridiculous. It got sorted, and a bit of clever rescheduling and a committment to play the club games left it in better shape.
    Why would you cut down Senior inter county games. That's like saying there should be less games in the EPL and more reserve games. Do you really think having more club games of inferior standard will increase interest in the GAA


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Why would you cut down Senior inter county games. That's like saying there should be less games in the EPL and more reserve games. Do you really think having more club games of inferior standard will increase interest in the GAA

    cut back the scheduling, not games. there is far too many breaks between qualifier games and first round championship games. See Galways run last year, where they had the first round game in April or May and then had 8 weeks off or something. There is times when teams have a huge break between games, and then could have 3 or 4 in a row. it makes a mess of club games in that sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭TheBa


    Super super system!!

    As for the arguments re: competing with EPL and UCL, not many high profile EPL games take place on Wednesdays. After the UCL round of 16, there are few games left, half of which are on Tuesdays, and only Man United games would really deter any GAA fans, unless Liverpool come good (safe enough there though)

    LOI Games are on Friday and Saturday nights, but again, there is really no competition there. How many fans attend both inter-county league matches and their local LOI club's matches? Very few, I'd imagine.

    The exact same applies to rugby and its followers, Friday/Saturday nights, no real presence of hardcore dual fans. These multi-sport fans will still be there for the summer months.

    Btw, I'm primarily a soccer fan, but this system could embrace the sports fans of this country. I don't think any code should be aiming to mop up all the audience and kill off the competition, as this simply won't happen.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 164 ✭✭TheBa


    bruschi wrote: »
    cut back the scheduling, not games. there is far too many breaks between qualifier games and first round championship games. See Galways run last year, where they had the first round game in April or May and then had 8 weeks off or something. There is times when teams have a huge break between games, and then could have 3 or 4 in a row. it makes a mess of club games in that sense.

    Well, with all the teams in Leinster, then the multiple rounds of qualifiers for the first round losers there, the provincial championship is always going to cause that problem. Just highlights the need for radical change. Connacht and Munster, in particular, suffer a loss of game time.

    Again, I can't compliment the first proposal enough. It's this exact kind of evolution that made the UEFA Champion's League what it is today. Increasing the number of games between top teams in the biggest competition of them all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    ALL-IRELAND ‘B’ CHAMPIONSHIP is a no go team's had no interest in the Tommy Murphy cup & same goes this. The east,west,north conference thing reminds me of the NBA championship & it may work.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    TheBa wrote: »
    Super super system!!

    As for the arguments re: competing with EPL and UCL, not many high profile EPL games take place on Wednesdays. After the UCL round of 16, there are few games left, half of which are on Tuesdays, and only Man United games would really deter any GAA fans, unless Liverpool come good (safe enough there though)

    LOI Games are on Friday and Saturday nights, but again, there is really no competition there. How many fans attend both inter-county league matches and their local LOI club's matches? Very few, I'd imagine.

    The exact same applies to rugby and its followers, Friday/Saturday nights, no real presence of hardcore dual fans. These multi-sport fans will still be there for the summer months.

    Btw, I'm primarily a soccer fan, but this system could embrace the sports fans of this country. I don't think any code should be aiming to mop up all the audience and kill off the competition, as this simply won't happen.

    I agree 100%.
    If I may add, why are the GAA afraid to compete with ratings from other organisations? When you have 2 well matched teams in either football or hurling, its a great sport to watch. Thing is, with the current system, we are not guaranteed to see a huge amount of great games every year, it all depends on the draw for the provincial championships, and the qualifiers. This year, there is no guarantee we will see Kerry V Dublin, Cork V Tyrone, Galway V Mayo..... where as in the premier league, we know we will see UTD V City, Liverpool V Chelsea, Arsenal V Chelsea not once but twice.

    I would Love to see a shake up of the system, but I cant see it happening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,285 ✭✭✭Frankie Lee


    I'd support this proposal all right as something radical needs to be done urgently before football falls further behind Rugby. I can;t agree with people saying the current system is working fine. The league in its current form is nothing more than an elaborate pre season tournament while the Championship has lost a lot of its edge since the back door has been introduced. This is reflected in reduced attendences aided by the recession/depression.

    I'm not too sure about the midweek fixtures idea though, it might work for the Dublin club championship where every venue is closeby but for us country folk it won't suit.
    A set calender needs to be arranged also, clubs need to know when they have access to county players and time should be set aside in early summer to large parts of Club Championships played in good weather.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,460 ✭✭✭✭The_Kew_Tour


    They should never have changed to backdoor in first place.

    Why break something that did not need fixing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,177 ✭✭✭MickySticks


    They should never have changed to backdoor in first place.

    Why break something that did not need fixing.
    They changed to backdoor to maximize revenue i.e more fixtures.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'd support this proposal all right as something radical needs to be done urgently before football falls further behind Rugby. I can;t agree with people saying the current system is working fine. The league in its current form is nothing more than an elaborate pre season tournament while the Championship has lost a lot of its edge since the back door has been introduced. This is reflected in reduced attendences aided by the recession/depression.

    I'm not too sure about the midweek fixtures idea though, it might work for the Dublin club championship where every venue is closeby but for us country folk it won't suit.
    A set calender needs to be arranged also, clubs need to know when they have access to county players and time should be set aside in early summer to large parts of Club Championships played in good weather.
    Time to put the cat amongst the pigeons...

    I fail to see the logic behind the part I have underlined. The system proposed in the OP is basically a league followed by a league, followed by a championship for just 12 teams. You could make the top 5 in your Regional Conference League while losing 4 out of seven matches, then get third in the next group phase by winning two out of four. So you have lost six out of eleven before you actually play a proper championship (do or die) match. You are relying on other teams doing you favours, how does this bring back "the edge"? This is not what championship football is about - you faith should be in your own hands. At least with the backdoor you have no one to blame, or no one to thank but yourself.

    In the current championship system, after just one loss, you are in a situation where if you lose again, you are gone. The proposed system only allows for 11 proper championship matches each year between all the counties, the existing system allows for 23.

    I still think the current system is good if they change the provincial championships to regional championships with 8 teams in each. This would create a more streamlined championship, as I explained here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    They should never have changed to backdoor in first place.

    Why break something that did not need fixing.

    I thought the old system was horrible to be honest. Far fewer games, which made it very hard to develop the game in the weaker counties, as they usually only got one championship game a year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    I thought the old system was horrible to be honest. Far fewer games, which made it very hard to develop the game in the weaker counties, as they usually only got one championship game a year.

    didn't really though, leitrim won a provincial title, clare won a provincial title and the ulster counties like donegal, derry developed all-ireland winning teams under the old system


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,376 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    The OP suggests a GAA championship season running in two parts, Feb/March and then again summer.

    In reality the timing is little different to the current league and championship calendar.

    Now last time I checked the existence of the EPL and the CL had feck all effect on the League and Championship attendances.
    Most people do not have ESPN and/or Sky sports.

    the whole idea of the proposal is to get MORE people watching gaa but i don't see how you achieve that by going head to head with an established sport that time of year (i didnt mention european cup rugby or six nations which also takes place every feb/march)

    alot of the same people who watch gaa watch premier league and european football, the top people in the gaa are already getting their excuses in early this year as to why attendances will be down (re euro 2012, olympics)

    people have a choice in those months, sit in front of fire or down to the pub to watch premier league action or stand out in the freezing cold, wind, rain (or whatever the irish western winter throws up), not to mention the quality of football played in feb/march will be horrible (given the conditions) so probably turn away more tv viewers than it brings in


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    The more I think about this the more I like the current set up.
    You get to keep the traditional aspect with the provincial championships but have the added excitement of a few open draws that usually throw out a couple of top class games each round. As I've said previously Championship football belongs in the summer not Feb/March. If you were to start championship football at this stage when are the players getting a genuine rest period. Don't forget they are still amateur after all and are currently training for more of the year than most professionals.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    didn't really though, leitrim won a provincial title, clare won a provincial title and the ulster counties like donegal, derry developed all-ireland winning teams under the old system

    But it was the only time Leitrim won a cannaught title since 1927, under the old system, leitrim won 2 cannaught titles in 100 years (1900-2000 when the old system was in place)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    But it was the only time Leitrim won a cannaught title since 1927, under the old system, leitrim won 2 cannaught titles in 100 years (1900-2000 when the old system was in place)
    Are you trying to say the new system is helping the quality of football in Leitrim? They haven't won a provincial title since the backdoor came in afaik


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,616 ✭✭✭8k2q1gfcz9s5d4


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Are you trying to say the new system is helping the quality of football in Leitrim? They haven't won a provincial title since the backdoor came in afaik

    no im not. However, its an improvement. In the old system they would have had max 1-2 championship games a year depending on how the draw went. In the current system they are guaranteed at least 3 championship games a year. In the new proposed system, they will have a lot more games.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,455 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    no im not. However, its an improvement. In the old system they would have had max 1-2 championship games a year depending on how the draw went. In the current system they are guaranteed at least 3 championship games a year. In the new proposed system, they will have a lot more games.
    OK but for Leitrim this arguement is invalid as extra games have not shown an improvememt in results so far. Maybe the standard is up, I certainly don't see them enough to judge that. There is no evidence to suggest them playing an extra 20 championship games a year will give grounds for improvement


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 103 ✭✭AllyMcFearless


    It's a good idea but to scrap the current system would be crazy. Slowly implementing new rules/systems would be more logical as opposed to a complete change!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭Rastapitts


    have the provinces in feb/March then the championship from May onwards. have it world cup/champs league style and it seed it on the basis of how you did in your provincial championship. For example 8 provincial finalists top seed, 8 semi finalists 2nd seeds and so on..


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    People keep not understanding that the convergce of traditional, essential, local rivalries and the most important tournament in the country. Attendences would collapse in almost all of the scenarios outlined and interest in county teams not in the very upper eceloeon of the food chain would start to evaporate because you've diluted the matches they want to see.

    All of this is still complete and utter fantasy stuff.


Advertisement