How do you nip Food Agression

gud4u

Hi,

I've a 5 month old male dog getting a bit anxious with his food. He growls if you get to near when he's eating.

How do you proceed. I was told to take his feed off him midfeed, but he's growling at me, not that I blame him, it must be annoying. He's a big breed(rottie) I used the same method with my Jacker but a nip from her was nothing, don't fancy the same from him..

Any suggestions.

kylith

I'd advise just the opposite, if you approach his bowl while he's eating it should be to put more food in so he learns that you're not a threat to his food; you're a boon.

tk123

kylith wrote: »

I'd advise just the opposite, if you approach his bowl while he's eating it should be to put more food in so he learns that you're not a threat to his food; you're a boon.

+1 My guy got like this recently with bones or new chews I started to buy - he's fine with his daily food it was just these high value treats. I started by going over to him, dropping a treat and walking off again and again. I went at his pace so once I knew he was getting more comfortable I went a step further eg petting him, asking for the paw etc etc

We went from
Growling when I passed his bed :rolleyes:
Not taking the treats
Grabbing the treats if they were close but leaving them if they were outside the bed
Jumping out of the bed, talking the treats and jumping back in
Talking the treats after I stepped away
Looking up when I approached and taking the treat while I was still standing in front of him - Loads of praise
Dropping the bone when I approached and taking the treat from my hand and letting me pet him- LOADS of praise for this
Dropping the bone and giving the paw for the treat I had
Him dropping a disgusting manky bone in my lap the other week for me to help him get the marrow out!! GAH!!!!!! :rolleyes::P

Hand feeding the dog is also a good way of gaining trust and building up your bond. He's just a puppy so you could practice some commands as you're feeding him and kill 2 birds with one stone!

belongtojazz

kylith wrote: »

I'd advise just the opposite, if you approach his bowl while he's eating it should be to put more food in so he learns that you're not a threat to his food; you're a boon.

I did this with my springer when I first got him aged 7, half starved and very food aggressive.
He is now very comfortable with me around his dinner. I also spent a lot of time training him to wait when I put his dish down until I told him it was ok to eat.
Your guy is very young so this should be easy enough to rectify now.

gud4u

tk123 wrote: »

+1 My guy got like this recently with bones or new chews I started to buy - he's fine with his daily food it was just these high value treats. I started by going over to him, dropping a treat and walking off again and again. I went at his pace so once I knew he was getting more comfortable I went a step further eg petting him, asking for the paw etc etc

We went from
Growling when I passed his bed :rolleyes:
Not taking the treats
Grabbing the treats if they were close but leaving them if they were outside the bed
Jumping out of the bed, talking the treats and jumping back in
Talking the treats after I stepped away
Looking up when I approached and taking the treat while I was still standing in front of him - Loads of praise
Dropping the bone when I approached and taking the treat from my hand and letting me pet him- LOADS of praise for this
Dropping the bone and giving the paw for the treat I had
Him dropping a disgusting manky bone in my lap the other week for me to help him get the marrow out!! GAH!!!!!! :rolleyes::P

Hand feeding the dog is also a good way of gaining trust and building up your bond. He's just a puppy so you could practice some commands as you're feeding him and kill 2 birds with one stone!

Sound advice, thanks, what commands do you suggest at this point.

We are working well on 'leave it'.

The Sweeper

Um, I wouldn't use an instruction command while he's having his dinner. 'Leave it' would just enforce the notion that you're messing with his food and might exacerbate his possessiveness.

Try the method described, but just say 'treat' when you drop the treat. Say it in a really high pitched 'woohoo' praise tone, as opposed to a command tone. If you're lucky it'll speed things up - you can come over, say 'treat' and the dog will look up at you and away from his meal and you can drop your treat. While it's important to be able to take things from your dog, messing with their dinner isn't a good precedent to set.

kylith

Being able to "mess with" their food is essential, imo. I look after a friends dog who is on medication, but one of mine will bully her to get her dinner. If I couldn't take a bowl from her I'd have had big problems with my 8kg dog gobbling the mixed-in tablets meant for a 60kg dog.*

It'll take the OP a while to get there, but, imo, being able to pick up the dog's bowl should be the objective.

*Big Dog doesn't cross The Tiny Tyrant. If the little one is lying in the middle of the hall Bog Dog will come get us to move her. She won't step over her.

The Sweeper

Yeah, I know what you mean. I can take a marrowbone out of my dog's mouth without reprisal, but I achieved that using a treat method but never essentially mucking about with his food or asking him to 'leave it'. Because I never gave him food and then took it off him, I never established an expectation that I would mess about with his dinner. I only ever created an expectation that me arriving in the middle of him eating meant a treat or something else excellent. I can call him away in the middle of his dinner to give him a treat, and then pick his bowl up, but I never tried to make him leave his meal based on a command. That foundation of trust means I can, if I choose, interrupt him mid meal and take his bowl away, but if you can picture it, that was never the training goal. The goal was to have him completely relaxed around his food, so I never tried to take it off him.

kylith

Ah, I see what you mean. Good psychology there.

gud4u

gud4u wrote: »

Sound advice, thanks, what commands do you suggest at this point.

We are working well on 'leave it'.

Hi, just to clear up any confusion, I don't teach 'leave it' during food time. I'm working on that separately as he likes to run off with must of my clothes.:)

I was interested in what TK123 meant by adding in other commands at this point but maybe I misunderstood what he's saying.

I would like to be able to get the food off him..for wahatever reason may arise..in a safe manner. Mainly when he's trying to rob the other dogs food, none of them have a problem with taking food away, but I haven't had them all from pups.

are you serious

gud4u wrote: »

Hi,

I've a 5 month old male dog getting a bit anxious with his food. He growls if you get to near when he's eating.

How do you proceed. I was told to take his feed off him midfeed, but he's growling at me, not that I blame him, it must be annoying. He's a big breed(rottie) I used the same method with my Jacker but a nip from her was nothing, don't fancy the same from him..

Any suggestions.

Ah come on gud4u... he is still a puppy... You are coming across as if you are somewhat afraid of him. At 5 months he is still nowhere near half the size he is going to be when fully grown, what will you do then if he still has any issues when fully grown?

This is what I done with both of my rotts, and it is advice I would give anyone because it works. Take his food bowl, put food in and make him wait for it, get him to sit stay whatever you like then give it to him, praise him... stay there, take his food up, do the same over and over and over... He only eats when you say he can eat. If you want it he lets you have it, it really is that simple, what happens if someone goes to your house and does not realise when he's eating they should leave him alone...

Out of interest is he like this with anything else? You have to be able to take control of his toys/food whenever you decide, not when he wants.

Are you feeding him correctly, is he hungry and then this in turn is causing the aggression towards the food...? If this hasnt come to your attention just check his daily guide for feeding, it could just be that easy!

My advice comes on the back of my male doing exactly this to me when he was just about 10weeks old, every day then after for a while I took everything from him including food when playing or eating. He has never once done anything like it since.

Every dog is different I know but, for me praising a dog with food aggression while it is eating simply will not work.

Think about it, he has aggression to you being near him eating so you praising him while he eats his food achieves what exactly? His mind set will be along the lines of I get praised just for eating, this is great.. He still wont have experienced you taking the food from him so therefore wont know that he shouldn't be aggressive if you do choose to take the bowl from him.

gud4u

are you serious wrote: »

Ah come on gud4u... he is still a puppy... You are coming across as if you are somewhat afraid of him. At 5 months he is still nowhere near half the size he is going to be when fully grown, what will you do then if he still has any issues when fully grown?

Which is why I want to do something about it now..

This is what I done with both of my rotts, and it is advice I would give anyone because it works. Take his food bowl, put food in and make him wait for it, get him to sit stay whatever you like then give it to him, praise him... stay there, take his food up, do the same over and over and over... He only eats when you say he can eat. If you want it he lets you have it, it really is that simple, what happens if someone goes to your house and does not realise when he's eating they should leave him alone...

Out of interest is he like this with anything else? You have to be able to take control of his toys/food whenever you decide, not when he wants.

Yes, but he doesn't growl, just wants to make a game out of it by tugging..which I don't entertain, unless we're actually playing. He's getting easier to take stuff off of though.

Are you feeding him correctly, is he hungry and then this in turn is causing the aggression towards the food...? If this hasnt come to your attention just check his daily guide for feeding, it could just be that easy!

I think this is a very valid point and will look at the pack today..

My advice comes on the back of my male doing exactly this to me when he was just about 10weeks old, every day then after for a while I took everything from him including food when playing or eating. He has never once done anything like it since.

will start this today..

Every dog is different I know but, for me praising a dog with food aggression while it is eating simply will not work.

I've never done that!!

Think about it, he has aggression to you being near him eating so you praising him while he eats his food achieves what exactly?

I never done that either!! Which is why I was asking for a few opinions on what might be the right way forward.

He is big now, I'm not afraid of him, but as I said, the Jacker bit me, so yes, I would be a little wary, that's all.

tk123

gud4u wrote: »

I was interested in what TK123 meant by adding in other commands at this point but maybe I misunderstood what he's saying.

I meant like basic commands sit, down etc etc if you decided to try hand feeding him. Hand feeding is supposed to help if you're trying to teach the dogs to focus on you. There was a couple of people who did it at a class we used to go to and the dogs who were hand fed were focused on their owner most of the time..compared to my then puppy who was more interested in looking around and acting the eejit! :pac:

planetX

also if you're giving him something really good with his meal - like leftover meat, don't put it in his bowl. Wait till he's started on his dry food and then come over with the good stuff, and feed him from your hand. You want him to associate you coming near his bowl with getting fed something really good. Eventually you'll get to the stage where you can give him a bit of the meat and remove his bowl to add the rest of it, and he'll learn that he gets yummy stuff from you.

gud4u

Thanks for all the tips, will start on them now.;)

DBB

are you serious wrote: »

This is what I done with both of my rotts, and it is advice I would give anyone because it works. Take his food bowl, put food in and make him wait for it, get him to sit stay whatever you like then give it to him, praise him... stay there, take his food up, do the same over and over and over... He only eats when you say he can eat. If you want it he lets you have it, it really is that simple, what happens if someone goes to your house and does not realise when he's eating they should leave him alone...

Out of interest is he like this with anything else? You have to be able to take control of his toys/food whenever you decide, not when he wants.

I have to ask, have you ever used this method/ideology with an adult dog that has already become an accomplished food guarder?
I ask because IMO, if someone took to do this with a food guarder, they would probably get themselves seriously injured.

Every dog is different I know but, for me praising a dog with food aggression while it is eating simply will not work.

Think about it, he has aggression to you being near him eating so you praising him while he eats his food achieves what exactly? His mind set will be along the lines of I get praised just for eating, this is great.. He still wont have experienced you taking the food from him so therefore wont know that he shouldn't be aggressive if you do choose to take the bowl from him.

You're somewhat missing the point of the good advice given above by The Sweeper and Kylith. The idea of approaching the dog whilst eating, giving him a kind word, and dropping food into the bowl, is not to reward him for eating. It's to gradually condition a happy, positive emotional response to a person approaching him whilst he eats.
This can easily be progressed to the dog being conditioned to feel happy when the owner approaches, bends down, tocuhes the bowl, touches the food, moves the bowl about, and take the bowl away. Each is done in small steps, as the dog becomes really good at the step that came before.
This approach is a perfect way to prevent food guarding, and to treat it when it's already established.
If a person continuously approaches an eating dog and takes his food from him, the opposite emotion is conditioned: the dog becomes anxious, resentful and aggressive when he sees a person approaching whilst he eats, because he has been conditioned to expect loss. Indeed, a characteristic feature of food guarding is that it is more severe the longer the human's approach is to the eating dog. Most dogs who food guard have a history of expecting to lose out when a human approached them as they eat, chew a bone, play with a toy. Many people, of course, get away with it,which is testament to how forgiving dogs can be with our blundering.
However, whilst the owner might be safe from an aggressive response, anyone the dog doesn't necessarily respect so much could land in big trouble if they approach the dog whilst eating. So, visitors who approach the dog whilst eating are actually at greater risk if the dog has been trained using this oppressive, not-particularly-effective method.

OP, try splitting each of his meals into a number of small portions. Place one portion into his bowl, and let him eat it.
As he comes to the end of this portion, go over to him and empty the next portion into his bowl. And as he finishes ths, go over and give him the next portion, and so on, until it's all gone.
The pup will quickly start to welcome you to his bowl, open-faced, waggy bum, inviting you to come closer to him as he eats. An entirely different prospect to him dreading your approach.
Once the pup is very open to your approach, get other people doing the same thing. At first, for safety's sake, keep pup on a lead when others approach to pour food into his bowl. It won't take long for him to think "Oh! Everyone plays this game! Coooolll!"
When kids approach him, up the ante: kids don't pour kibble into his bowl, they pour nyummy chicken, sausage, ham, whatever's going, into the bowl, so kids approaching eating pup = party time!
Best of luck with this: you are absolutely right to address this right now, as it's easier to nip in the bud than to deal with once it's progressed a bit. Remember that we never need to lord it over our dogs to teach them stuff: we can establish boundaries and assert our expectations without having to lord it over them, by using gentle, thoughtful training that conditions pups to be delighted to do what we want them to do!

boardbrowser

stellar training book specifically to address and resolve resource guarding issues- 'Mine'- Jean donaldson.
thank you for addressing this all too common and modifiable behavioural issue early on.