Private Car Sales & The Small Claims Court

dceire

I purchased a car two months ago and it seems the head gasket appears to be gone, I've been having trouble for a couple of weeks now and had it in with a few garages. None of them have been able to give me a definite answer on this but all signs lead that way.

The thing is, I believe that efforts have been made to hide this fault; namely, there is a black piece of tape covering a warning light on the dash. It's very difficult to see but it's there. The car has only had one previous owner.

Would it be possible for me to bring them to the small claims court over this?

Doom

Some info from small claims site;

To be eligible to use the procedure, you, the 'consumer' must have bought the goods or services (or the service) for private use from someone selling them in the course of business. As a 'business' you must have bought the goods or services (or the service) for use in business from someone selling them in the course of business.

The District Court Clerk, called the Small Claims Registrar, processes small claims.

AltAccount

I'd say you're not going to get much joy, two months later, on a private sale tbh.

Voodoomelon

Private sale, buyer beware. You haven't got a leg to stand on unfortunately.
You could have handed the money over and the head gasket blown on the way home and you still wouldn't be entitled to a bean.

dceire

It's not the fact that the head gasket has blown down the line a such, just the fact that attempts were made to conceal the fact that there was a problem to get the sale.

Black tape was placed over the engine light to conceal the problem. It's been in 3 garages and nobody noticed it until I did just today.

Doom

Where's the proof that the previous owner did this?

L-M

dceire wrote: »

It's not the fact that the head gasket has blown down the line a such, just the fact that attempts were made to conceal the fact that there was a problem to get the sale.

Black tape was placed over the engine light to conceal the problem. It's been in 3 garages and nobody noticed it until I did just today.

You were duped, i'm afraid. You haven't a hope either. There's nothing to say you didn't do it.

Buyer beware.

When buying a car always turn the ignition on one click and make sure all the lights come on and go off.

Voodoomelon

dceire wrote: »

It's not the fact that the head gasket has blown down the line a such, just the fact that attempts were made to conceal the fact that there was a problem to get the sale.

Black tape was placed over the engine light to conceal the problem. It's been in 3 garages and nobody noticed it until I did just today.

Makes no difference, its unfortunate that you didn't spot it when you checked it out, but you had every opportunity to have a mechanic/professional check it for you.

Jimdagym

I'm sure you have learned it now OP, but this is why you have to make sure all the lights come on and then knock off when you start the car.

trixyben

Thats the chance you take when buying private, you really do have to give the car a detailed check as you have zero come back...

You say 3 garages couldnt say for sure if the head gasket is gone, well you need to go to a proper mechanic as there is a simple test to determine if gasket is blown or not and if you say what part of the country you are in im sure you'll get good recommendation from someone here...

bazz26

OP, a valuable lesson to learn here, when looking at buying a used car especially a private sale, always have a competant mechanic check it out before agreeing to buy it. I'd imagine a competant mechanic would have spotted something was not right with the car on inspecition and I'm not talking about a hidden light.

As said the small claims court only applies to a buisness not a private individual.

lomb

What car is it and what are the symptoms?

Bearcat

Caveat emptor

dceire

dceire wrote: »

...........

Would it be possible for me to bring them to the small claims court over this?

Possible maybe, fruitless definitely.

dceire

lomb wrote: »

What car is it and what are the symptoms?

It's a Renault Clio and the engine light is definitely on; I'm guessing since I purchased the car. I was only able to see it tonight in pitch darkness and by concentrating really, really hard on where the black tape is placed. There is the faintest of light appearing from behind it. As I said, it's so well blocked that it's almost impossible to spot. :mad:

The car has been sporadically loosing coolant for a few weeks now and is really hard to start on the odd occasion; usually accompanied by a large cloud of white smoke. It's not overheating though and, once started runs almost perfectly; one of the coils is on its last legs though.

I guess there's not much I can do then but to never let it happen again.
I do still have the guys phone number and workplace but I'm guessing contacting him would be a fruitless exercise.

Voodoomelon

There is no harm in giving him a call and stating the obvious in a roundabout way; he may/may not be aware of his rights and may agree to some kind of compensation. However this is unlikely.

dceire

dceire wrote: »

I purchased a car two months ago and it seems the head gasket appears to be gone, I've been having trouble for a couple of weeks now and had it in with a few garages. None of them have been able to give me a definite answer on this but all signs lead that way................

dceire wrote: »

..............

The car has been sporadically loosing coolant for a few weeks now and is really hard to start on the odd occasion; usually accompanied by a large cloud of white smoke. It's not overheating though and, once started runs almost perfectly; one of the coils is on its last legs though. ...........

Sounds like it hasn't been diagnosed properly as yet, I'd be more interested in getting that sorted than pursuing the seller, might well not be the HG at all.

dceire

RoverJames wrote: »

Sounds like it hasn't been diagnosed properly as yet, I'd be more interested in getting that sorted than pursuing the seller, might well not be the HG at all.

Of course I'd like to get it sorted but, I've already been advised by a mechanic that it may need a new engine. And while it may not be an expensive car to a lot of people, I really don't have the money to be throwing around.

I've known that there is a problem with the engine for a few weeks now and have been trying to get it looked at and sorted. My main grievance is that somebody has gone to great lengths to conceal the problem with the engine which I find to be rather malicious. I'm sure it was the previous owner because the car was serviced by him at a main renault dealer at the end of 2010 and they said no such fault was found. It has been done at some point since then.


I know I'm clutching at straws but I did find this on citizinsinformation.ie:

It is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 to sell a car which is not roadworthy. Also, the seller is required to give you accurate and truthful information in answer to any questions that you ask. However, a private seller does not have to provide information that is not requested. If you have a grievance after buying a car you should complain to the seller first. If you are not satisfied with the response you may be able to take legal action against the seller. Where the car you bought is unroadworthy, you could also refer the matter to the Garda Síochána and the Road Safety Authority.

omb0wyn5ehpij9

I really think you need a new mechanic. He has told you that you might need a new engine, yet he can't tell you for sure if the head gasket is gone?!

dceire

BDJW wrote: »

I really think you need a new mechanic. He has told you that you might need a new engine, yet he can't tell you for sure if the head gasket is gone?!

Well basically what he said was that if the head is gone there's no way of telling how badly until it has been taken off. If it's cracked I'll need a new engine. My Dad and I have dealt with this mechanic for years and years at this stage and he has never steered us wrong in the past.

Although, I am surprised that he hasn't been able to give me a definite answer on this one. That's why I've had it looked at, or be it briefly, by two other garages; neither of which were able to give me any more advice than to keep driving it and monitor the coolant levels etc.

What I meant was you need if diagnosed properly, you don't even know that the HG is gone, coolant loss and difficulty starting yet perfect running could be indicative of an inlet manifold gasket leak rather than the HG for example, dunno about clios but there's too many ifs and maybes with your current diagnosis, your mechanic seems less than confidence inspiring.

lifer_sean

dceire wrote: »

Of course I'd like to get it sorted but, I've already been advised by a mechanic that it may need a new engine. And while it may not be an expensive car to a lot of people, I really don't have the money to be throwing around.

I've known that there is a problem with the engine for a few weeks now and have been trying to get it looked at and sorted. My main grievance is that somebody has gone to great lengths to conceal the problem with the engine which I find to be rather malicious. I'm sure it was the previous owner because the car was serviced by him at a main renault dealer at the end of 2010 and they said no such fault was found. It has been done at some point since then.


I know I'm clutching at straws but I did find this on citizinsinformation.ie:

Re your quote from citizensinformation.ie, it refers to car being "unroadworthy". I could very well be wrong, but I'd interpret "roadworthy" as safe to use on the roads, ie, brakes, suspension, steering all okay. In that sense a questionable head gasket failure doesn't constitute "unroadworthy".

Also if after 2 months use and 3 mechanics (professionals, experts in this field) unable to diagnose a problem, why would you suspect that the previous owner (assuming a joe public, no expertise in the area) knowing sold the car with a problem ?

I think you have to take this on the chin and move on.

Del2005

dceire wrote: »

RoverJames wrote: »

Sounds like it hasn't been diagnosed properly as yet, I'd be more interested in getting that sorted than pursuing the seller, might well not be the HG at all.

Of course I'd like to get it sorted but, I've already been advised by a mechanic that it may need a new engine. And while it may not be an expensive car to a lot of people, I really don't have the money to be throwing around.

I've known that there is a problem with the engine for a few weeks now and have been trying to get it looked at and sorted. My main grievance is that somebody has gone to great lengths to conceal the problem with the engine which I find to be rather malicious. I'm sure it was the previous owner because the car was serviced by him at a main renault dealer at the end of 2010 and they said no such fault was found. It has been done at some point since then.


I know I'm clutching at straws but I did find this on citizinsinformation.ie:

It is an offence under both road traffic legislation and the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 to sell a car which is not roadworthy. Also, the seller is required to give you accurate and truthful information in answer to any questions that you ask. However, a private seller does not have to provide information that is not requested. If you have a grievance after buying a car you should complain to the seller first. If you are not satisfied with the response you may be able to take legal action against the seller. Where the car you bought is unroadworthy, you could also refer the matter to the Garda Síochána and the Road Safety Authority.

Did you ask was the head gasket OK or are any warning lights covered? Even if you did unless you've an independent witnesses then it'll be your word against there's if you go legal. And then all the old owner has to say is they dropped it into xxxxxx backstreet garage to fix it and they got ripped off to.

Also as has been said before a dodgy engine doesn't make the car unroadworthy.