Queenless Nuc

marizpan

I split a hive 7 days ago, and took 3 brood frames and 2 stores to start a nuc. I made sure there was 2 frames of sealed brood and i with 3day eggs laid.
I was hoping that they would rear emergancy queen cells. I put a litre of 1:1 in the nuc also.i shook about 2-3 frames of bees into nuc.

I checked nuc today (day7) and there are very few bees, brood seem dead, no queen cells, and everthing is a mess. ie. cells not cleaned out, waste everywhere. i noticed a few drones with vorrea mites. never experienced this yet.
I know they are failing and assuming there weakness is allowing the mite to thrive. the used very little syrup even though i trickled it over frames with adding it.
Where do i go from here?
The hive that i took the frames from is strong and has since replaced them. I assume i dont have enough house bees and all the foragers bees i added flew home.
Thanks

bertie1

marizpan wrote: »

I split a hive 7 days ago, and took 3 brood frames and 2 stores to start a nuc. I made sure there was 2 frames of sealed brood and i with 3day eggs laid.
I was hoping that they would rear emergancy queen cells. I put a litre of 1:1 in the nuc also.i shook about 2-3 frames of bees into nuc.

I checked nuc today (day7) and there are very few bees, brood seem dead, no queen cells, and everthing is a mess. ie. cells not cleaned out, waste everywhere. i noticed a few drones with vorrea mites. never experienced this yet.
I know they are failing and assuming there weakness is allowing the mite to thrive. the used very little syrup even though i trickled it over frames with adding it.
Where do i go from here?
The hive that i took the frames from is strong and has since replaced them. I assume i dont have enough house bees and all the foragers bees i added flew home.
Thanks

That nuc is doomed , you should have taken a queen cell from the main hive to put in , at best the nuc may have managed a scrub queen . In order to stop the flying bees returning to the main hive you really need to move a nuc 3 miles. IF it hadn't enough house bees to look after the brood , it did not have enough to make even a bad queen cell. The rest in that nuc are going to die out. I suggest you get an experienced beekeeper to look at your main hive , if the varroa are obvious now on the drones that emerged from that brood , the main hive must have high levels. Varroa is a vector for other disease.
The few remaining bees you have could be recombined with the hive using the newspaper method , is there any other more experienced beekeeper near you that you could team up with. In another few weeks there will be plenty of queencells in hives to put into nucs or mating apideas

viztopia

bertie1 wrote: »

marizpan wrote: »

I split a hive 7 days ago, and took 3 brood frames and 2 stores to start a nuc. I made sure there was 2 frames of sealed brood and i with 3day eggs laid.
I was hoping that they would rear emergancy queen cells. I put a litre of 1:1 in the nuc also.i shook about 2-3 frames of bees into nuc.

I checked nuc today (day7) and there are very few bees, brood seem dead, no queen cells, and everthing is a mess. ie. cells not cleaned out, waste everywhere. i noticed a few drones with vorrea mites. never experienced this yet.
I know they are failing and assuming there weakness is allowing the mite to thrive. the used very little syrup even though i trickled it over frames with adding it.
Where do i go from here?
The hive that i took the frames from is strong and has since replaced them. I assume i dont have enough house bees and all the foragers bees i added flew home.
Thanks

That nuc is doomed , you should have taken a queen cell from the main hive to put in , at best the nuc may have managed a scrub queen . In order to stop the flying bees returning to the main hive you really need to move a nuc 3 miles. IF it hadn't enough house bees to look after the brood , it did not have enough to make even a bad queen cell. The rest in that nuc are going to die out. I suggest you get an experienced beekeeper to look at your main hive , if the varroa are obvious now on the drones that emerged from that brood , the main hive must have high levels. Varroa is a vector for other disease.
The few remaining bees you have could be recombined with the hive using the newspaper method , is there any other more experienced beekeeper near you that you could team up with. In another few weeks there will be plenty of queencells in hives to put into nucs or mating apideas

I have a beekeeper helping me on my hive. He is afraid that they may swarm so last saturday he put a second brood box on top of the existing on. With no queen excluder. He will come back in 2 weeks and take the top box away and hopefully get a second hive. He is well aware of the 3 mile rule.
Did the op take his second hive 3 miles away and is it unusual to get veroa this time of year?

bertie1

It is not unusual to get varroa . You never fully get rid of it in the hive . Now that there are drone brood cells in the hive , varroa prefers that , enters the cell a few hours before it is sealed. Because drones take 24 days to hatch , there can be 3 new varroa with each. The old mite could do this 2 or 3 times before it dies so in a short time , before the end of the summer there could be over 10000 depending on the level of mites at the moment. It is totally dependent on the treatment give last August when the honey was taken off, was Apiguard or Bayvarol used? Did he use Apibioxal over the winter or not?

marizpan

Would I be best to add another brood box with paper when weather clears? What about further spreading mite. Will the old hive then clean up the frames?
What treatment should I use for varroa?

I am a member of a bka but meeting not till next month and nobody within an hr of me

marizpan

I got the parent hive as a nuc last season. So im not familiar with its previous history. And im a total novice:)

bertie1

Did you use Bayvarol or Apiguard last Autumn for Varroa. Have you got a super on.

To combine.Late evening , when all the flying bees have returned Remove the cover & crown board. Put a sheet of newspaper over the main brood box. Pot one or two slight holes with hive tool in sheet of newspaper. Put what you have left of the nuc another brood box over the sheet of newspaper. Dust them with icing sugar. Close up the boxes. When the bees from below eat through the newspaper the box above will have the same smell coming up from the lower box, the few bees that will be left will have icing sugar on them & it will fall through into the box below causing some confusion & they should mix in.
You cannot treat for varroa if you have honey supers on the hive . You could try drone brood trapping & dusting with icing sugar.
Here is a link to treating for varroa

http://www.irishbeekeeping.ie/beehealth/fibkavarroa.html

marizpan

Thanks Bertie.
You have been very helpful.
Should I take off super and treat or leave till sept ?
The extra brood box should give en more space so not need super as much?

bertie1

The brood box is only to recombine them so they all smell the same , & make use out of the bees you have left. As soon as they are all combined , you can take it away . If the bees don't clear up the frames with the dead brood remove it & any other bad ones & treat with acetic acid. Your association should show you how to do that.
Try & get an experienced beekeeper to have a look at your hive & see how bad the varroa in it is