marriage?

john_1983

I’m living in the US now for the past 2 years and am agreeing to get married to an American and give this place a shot for a few more years, but I am quite sure that I will want to move back to Ireland after that. I am homesick for Ireland. She says she agrees to this move if it’s still what I want in a few years, but she hopes that it doesn’t happen. She says she is not sure she will want to stay in Ireland if it comes to it. What would we do then - if she is not happy in Ireland and I am not happy in America?? Is it right for us to get married under such uncertain circumstances??

I am a friend

There are no guarantees even if you come from the same town. You don't mention that you can't live without her?

Sorry just saw you said you are agreeing??? You sound very reluctant. No point marrying anyone you don't want to

john_1983

I would say I could live without her, but really would prefer to not do that. I know there are other girls out there who want to settle in the same country as I do, and who I could possibly also be happy with. I think this girl is the most amazing person I have ever dated or wanted to date, and we are very compatible in every way except we have different visions of where we want to live and raise a family.

I say "agreeing" since we both want to get married, but we had long talks about how we can overcome this difference in where we want to live, and what we both are "agreeing" to do is try be open and flexible, but it is quite risky since we are both hoping that the other once "gives in" and we each get what we are hoping for in a place to live, as well as getting to live with each other.

Recessionbust

That's a tough one but Im a firm believer in love will conquer all. If you love her with all your heart then go for it. Forget about what might happen an enjoy what is happening. Sometimes we look to far forward that we don't see and enjoy what's happening now. That's just my thoughts. Whatever happens I hope it works out for you.

Better to try and regret then to regret not trying ;-)

LegacyUser

john_1983 wrote: »

Hi,

I’m living in the US now for the past 2 years and am agreeing to get married to an American and give this place a shot for a few more years, but I am quite sure that I will want to move back to Ireland after that. I am homesick for Ireland. She says she agrees to this move if it’s still what I want in a few years, but she hopes that it doesn’t happen. She says she is not sure she will want to stay in Ireland if it comes to it. What would we do then - if she is not happy in Ireland and I am not happy in America?? Is it right for us to get married under such uncertain circumstances??

J

You seem nonchalant about this....sorry, if I sound rude. Just the fact that you both have different views about family? I don't get it because why you would marry someone that you are not in love with or at least share the same values? My suggestion to you if you decide to marry, at least don't have children until you know where to settle long term and most important you both become more agreeable when it comes to raising family.

I came to Ireland to learn English 8 years ago and did meet my husband here. To be honest I never thought in a million years that I would actually settle down here. But it was the sacrifice I made to be with the man that I love. We are compatible, we have same views about raising family, what we want for future. I do get homesick but his family are also my family and I am very close to them. This was what made it worthwhile to stay here because I be honest. I do get homesick but no offence the weather is sh*te here, I am cold most of the time and the lack of sun drives me mad. But it is still worth it being here. It is only three hours by plane as I come from the same continent. For her is more complicated. I know if I do not feel the way I do for my husband, I will not marry him. Also, I would never expect my husband to move to my country because I did meet him here. It is not fair for him.

Susie_Q

Actually I disagree with the 'love can conquer all' approach. A marriage is for life - a life that you will share with this woman. You both need to agree on what you want and how you will shape your future. It sounds like she is hellbent on staying in the US and you are determined to return to Ireland... this sounds like it is going to cause major problems down the line.

I really advise that you figure this out BEFORE you get married. If your future desires are really different then I don't see how a marriage can work; one of you will get your way and the other person will be resentful and unhappy. I don't how what kind of compromise can be reached but I hope you figure something out.

Best of luck OP, and don't forget to be brutally honest about your feelings.

john_1983

Unregistered098, we do have the same values about family – I think you misread that. In fact, we have the same values about almost everything. That is why I say we are vey compatible in every way except for that we want to live in different countries.

We actually met in Ireland and I moved her since she had to return for 5 years for university. She does not agree with the fact that we have to live in Ireland just because we met there. I wish she saw it this way, but I don’t think that is the way it has to be.

So after a few more years after the five years, she said she would be willing to move back to Ireland to try settle there, if that is what I still want in a few years and after I have given it an honest go on settling here.

Susie Q :This is the compromise we have come to, and we just have to trust that where we live will figure itself out and hopefully will not be as important to us as times goes on. We do love each other, but we also both really like where we are from. My only worry is that at the moment, where we live does seem very important to both of us and it could cause trouble down the line. It might depend on out future attitudes. Neither of us are willing to say now that we would settle forever in the other’s country, but we are willing to try out both places.

midnight_train

Hi OP, I understand where you're coming from and it's very difficult.

I was engaged to a guy from New Zealand and I moved there to be with him. And I absolutely HATED it, could not settle there. But I also realized that he was not the right guy for me (quick engagement after a whirlwind romance, much of it at a distance). So we would have split up anyway, NZ or not.

But where you live and raise a family is extremely important, it really is. And one person will have to give up a lot for the other person.

If you are one million percent sure she is the girl for you or vice versa, then I think you can give up your dream of going home without resentment. If you're not absolutely positive, then it's a huge thing to have to give up.

My ex and I went to couples counselling over the issue. It did help. But in my case it helped me realize we wanted completely different things, the geographical distance was just a starting point. I'd suggest counselling, even if the rest of your relationship is great, because where you're going to settle is a huge issue that isn't going to go away.

Best of luck to you both and I hope you come the right decision.

john_1983

Hi Midnight Train,

I agree that I have to be quite sure, and very aware of what might happen, but I don't think I have to give up my dream of living in Ireland again with my fiancee. We are both willing to compromise to a point where we would even spend years in either place at a time.

j

tudlytops

Well i tell you from a foreigner living in Ireland with an Irish man...I to get home sick, I miss Portugal, the food, the people and the weather..

But i made the choice to come over here and be with him, it is not fair for me to asking him to leave and if he was to leave, then what...what would he do when he got home sick...

One really has to make the decision of leaving...What we do, do is we take as many holidays as we can to Portugal (not often enough), and we still practice some of my traditions, cook alot of my foods, etc...

So you spend some years here, some there, you know full well that you would have to be very lucky to be able to do that, live though in jobs, mortgages, kids, many obstacles in the way.

To me he is more important then any country and in the end I come here, not the other way around...

Starokan

I think its something that you need to completely decide upon before marriage. It would be a silly move to get married first before sorting this out. If neither of you are willing to compromise on this then ultimately you will go home and she will stay in states. End result - Possible divorce

Thrash it out now and hopefully it will all work out fine

Johnny_BravoIII

You are only there 2 years..........why marriage already?
Why not wait a year, see how things play out?

john_1983

Hi,

we've been together almost 5 years now (2 years in Ireland, one long distance, 2 years here in the US), so it's kinda time to decide. If it were only 2 years, I agree, I would not rush into it. I feel if we can't decide to commit now, the wedding would be postponed a very long time (I'd say at least 2-3 years) and that would be in itself a lot of damage to the relationship. And what then? Then it would be "I stay here forever, or she comes to Ireland forever" - which isn't showing compromise to take it as it comes and decide as we go, a few years at a time. I think the idea of committing to live in one place forever scares us both of being trapped, but marrying each other feels right apart from that.

It is riskier than most marriages since we have a fundamental difference.

j

tudlytops

john_1983 wrote: »

Hi,

we've been together almost 5 years now (2 years in Ireland, one long distance, 2 years here in the US), so it's kinda time to decide. If it were only 2 years, I agree, I would not rush into it. I feel if we can't decide to commit now, the wedding would be postponed a very long time (I'd say at least 2-3 years) and that would be in itself a lot of damage to the relationship. And what then? Then it would be "I stay here forever, or she comes to Ireland forever" - which isn't showing compromise to take it as it comes and decide as we go, a few years at a time. I think the idea of committing to live in one place forever scares us both of being trapped, but marrying each other feels right apart from that.

It is riskier than most marriages since we have a fundamental difference.

j

I guarantee you something, if you truly love each other, if it is meant to be, you will work this out..

Like i said before, sure i miss my country, but i would miss him a lot more...:)

I am a believer in moment, if you don't, you will always ask yourself "what if", if you do and work at it, well you gave it your best shot.

A long time ago when i was thinking about my own relationship and had a lot of if's, my daughter said "better 10 years of happiness, then a life time of what if's

We are still together, happy and strong

LegacyUser

john_1983 wrote: »

We are both willing to compromise to a point where we would even spend years in either place at a time.

j

One thing to bear in mind is that if you have kids, once they start school it would be an even bigger wrench to move due to the disruption to them. You might become "locked in" to whatever country they are at school in, because it's never a great time to move them (exams or whatever) - and it would be easy for the "happy" parent to use them as an excuse to put off the move.

I guess it depends how long you understand "years in either place at a time" to mean? Is it 5 years? Or 20 (e.g. til the kids left home)? And if something happened to change the agreement (say she became the main carer for one of her parents and couldn't leave them or bring them with her), what would you do then?

I feel for you, it's a really difficult situation you're both in. I think it's right that you try to sort it out now though, rather than get married hoping it will suddenly resolve itself when you are not looking.

midnight_train

john_1983 wrote: »

Hi,

It is riskier than most marriages since we have a fundamental difference.

j

Yes, I understand where you're coming from here. You obviously have a lot of love for each other as you've been together a long time, in both places.

I really would encourage couples counselling if you can - it is a big issue to work through, and I think the other posters are correct in saying you should work though it before you get married. Ideally before anything is booked or any invites are sent (I learned my lesson the hard way with that one!!)

As it happens, I am now going out with someone whom I love very much - I'm American but I live in Ireland, and he's Irish but lives in the USA. I met him over there when I was visiting home. He prefers the US and I prefer Ireland. Go figure. I am hoping to organize a schedule where I can work in the USA during the year and live in Ireland during the summer. We both work for ourselves so it's a possibility. He doesn't want to leave the US permanently and I don't want to leave Ireland permanently.

So I do understand where you're coming from!

Best of luck, I hope ye work things out.

john_1983

Midnight train,

I can’t believe the irony of your situation - You wanting to stay in Ireland as an American and vice versa. Maybe I should get my fiancée to speak with you!

What do you prefer about Ireland over the US? It would be interesting for me to hear this from an American.

Also, we have been going to counseling for a few months now and this is what we have come up with after much fighting. We have not sent out the save the dates, but she wants to do it tomorrow. I want to do it too, but I have to admit that putting them in the post has a finality to it that scares me. I know it is a big leap of faith when we disagree on such a big issue. We will not have it sorted out anymore before we get married other than to say “let’s see how it goes for a few years here in America, and if I still want to move back to Ireland after that, then she will move back with me”

gud4u

Who says it's time to get married just because you're together 5 years, am I right in thinking you're both still in your 20s.

You have two choices here..

1. Just do it, no one can plan the future, believe me, it can all blow up in one second. Go with the flow and all that jazz..stay together forever or get divorced after a year..no harm done..

2. Talk till you're blue in the face about what if..maybe this..maybe that..plan it all out..put choices on each other..stay together forever or get divorced after a year..no harm done..

Either way, you can't be sure, but one thing I can assure you is..getting married shouldn't be an 'agreemant' it should just feel like the natural progression of a relationship. One ship, two crew, ready to face whatever the world has to throw your way..

Dreading the 'save the dates' being sent...would make me wonder..you should be excited. I really feel for you, but marraige takes work sometimes and as you're both working on your relationship with a counselor as it is, i'd say you'll be great together.

Best of luck, I hope you can work it out.

Taltos

OP - I too think it would be crazy sending out the save dates now.

This difference is not a small one - actually this difference is one that if not resolved 100% is almost certain to split you both up down the road. One of you will have to give up and I mean totally their desire to live in a certain place. This is not a small ask.

My suggestion is to continue with the counselling and to put off sending out any dates until you firmly resolve this issue. If you don't well then you are just building your marriage on quicksand and any anger or regret the other carries will eat away at you both.

I can imagine even saying to her that you can't send out the date will cause friction - but really is the alternative any better? Personally I would prefer some pain now with a hope of getting everything sorted to years of pain as you rip yourselves apart because of where you end up living.

midnight_train

john_1983 wrote: »

Midnight train,

I can’t believe the irony of your situation - You wanting to stay in Ireland as an American and vice versa. Maybe I should get my fiancée to speak with you!

What do you prefer about Ireland over the US? It would be interesting for me to hear this from an American.

Also, we have been going to counseling for a few months now and this is what we have come up with after much fighting. We have not sent out the save the dates, but she wants to do it tomorrow. I want to do it too, but I have to admit that putting them in the post has a finality to it that scares me. I know it is a big leap of faith when we disagree on such a big issue. We will not have it sorted out anymore before we get married other than to say “let’s see how it goes for a few years here in America, and if I still want to move back to Ireland after that, then she will move back with me”

Hi John,

Just a quick note before work. I really wouldn't send the save the dates if you feel scared about the finality, as you say. I'm not at all saying the same thing will happen to you, but I remember the feeling of fear as I put my save the dates into the postbox, not being 200% sure I was ready to get married. Lots of people books flights as soon as they get the save the dates. Luckily, everyone was very kind and understanding about it, but I really felt awful when I cancelled the wedding and people had already invested a lot of money into travelling for the wedding. Honestly, wait until you feel more certain and at peace.

OK, as for why I prefer Ireland ... I'm probably a bit different from your fiancée in that I'm half Irish and spent a lot of summers here as a child. I've always been into Irish culture in a big way, I love it and love being surrounded by it. I also love Irish people, the sense of humour, being so laid back, etc. I love being near Europe. I hate hot weather so Irish weather doesn't bother me that much. Most of all, I love not having to have health insurance, having a proper amount of holidays from work, and not paying a ridiculous amount for university education here. I know there's lots of great things about the USA, too, but overall those are my reasons for preferring Irish life!!

Best of luck with your decision.

Cunning Stunt

I am living abroad with my husband in his native (EU) country. I miss Ireland too, but I am resigned to the fact that I need to give it a couple more years here at least (we have been here 4 years now and we own our house the last 2 years so can't just up sticks).

john_1983

Hi,

Thanks for the comments. However, I know myself that I hate making decisions of any major type and I think that my nervousness/doubts about sending the save the dates is that indecision haunting me again. Although there are real concerns since we currently have different hopes about where we settle, every time I think the situation through, I come to the same conclusion that yes it is risky, but I should do it. The problem is that I think it over and over again with all these doubts. But I also feel I should not let my doubts (and second guessing more so than doubts ) ruin big life choices like this for me, if when I truly sit down and think about it, I just about always come to the same conclusion. I’ve never once decided it was not for me – I’ve only ever thought – “wait, maybe this isn’t the right decision - I need more time and to talk more”

Midnight train – my fiancée is also half Irish and has spent summers in Ireland, and then worked in Ireland, and that is how we met. It sounds like a similar situation in some ways.

j

Nothingbetter2d

if you have doubts dont get married... just stay together as you are.... unless your just marrying her for a green card.... if thats the case your marriage will not likely last as its based on rocky ground from the begining.

IrishEyes19

to be honest you need to be 100 percent decided on this. you cant for instance get married, agree to stay in America and a few years down the line, want to go back to Ireland and blame her for feeling different, you need to plan as best as you can, even though I do agree you cant predict the future either.

Your "I could live without her" is a bit strange too if you dont mind me saying. You sound more like you feel you should be getting married at this stage rather than wanting to be married. Big difference. I wouldnt rush into it for that reason. resentment is a nasty thing that can rise up years later so you need to be really sure.

realgirl

Have you considered the possibility that neither of you are comfortable with getting married and both therefore find it easier to have this obstacle of not wanting to live in another country in the way - i.e. while this issue is unresolved it is more sensible not to get married and it can be easier for people to be in this position than taking the plunge and either getting married or realising it isn't working and breaking up. Don't get me wrong, I know emigrating is a big deal no matter what the reason but it feels like you are both very divided on this issue and have little consideration for each other's feelings. Would you really prefer to live with your partner in Ireland even if it meant she was deeply unhappy, much harder to have a happy marriage then, and vice versa if you live in the US. You both seem to expect the other to make that sacrifice despite being pretty unwilling to make it yourselves, I think the counselling should help you with this. It's a difficult situation and I hope you find a solution that works out well for both of you, good luck.

How Strange

Op, are you prepared to live in the US with your wife for the longterm? That's the question you need to answer honestly.

If you secretly think you'll get her to change her mind and you'll both move to Ireland then it's a shaky ground to start a marriage on.

One of you have to compromise and are you willing to compromise for the sake of your marriage, wide and kids if you have them?

Only you can answer that question.

Before we got married, my husband didn't want kids. That was an absolute. It was our elephant in the room. There was no middle ground and one of us had to compromise if we had a long term future. When he asked me to marry him I said yes on the condition that children were part of the package. I said I couldn't compromise on children and I wouldn't get into a marriage which would inevitably break up. Thankfully he compromised and we now have a gorgeous son whom we both adore. However if he'd have said no I would've had to walk away.

You didn't come on to boards because you're comfortable with how things sit between you and your fiancée. A divorce is a lot more complicated than a breakup so try to be honest with yourself and see are you willing to be the one who makes the compromise and sacrifice.

Stavro Mueller

Whatever you do, don't get married before this is sorted out. If not, all you're doing is kicking the can down the road.

Realistically, moving backwards and forwards across the Atlantic because one or the other is unhappy isn't feasible long term. It's doable now because you've not got any ties as such. It won't be so easy if you've got kids. Or if one or the other of you is blissfully happy and then has to give up a great job, nice home, proximity to family and friends to move.

How genuine are you in your intentions to give living in America a go? Are you doing it with one eye still on home? Because if you do get married, one or the other of you is going to have to give in. Obviously if she gives in, that's great for you. But if she says no, she doesn't want to live in
Ireland, how does living in America for a long time grab you? Are you prepared to give up on your dream?

Without sounding like a battlefield, you're on the back foot already. You're the one who's in America and will be for quite a while. What will you do if she goes back on her word and says no?

The Corinthian

john_1983 wrote: »

Also, we have been going to counseling for a few months now and this is what we have come up with after much fighting.

Who in their right minds gets married while still resolving issues in counselling? Honestly!

You have to resolve this and come to some agreement and while your initial post claimed that this was the case, it appears clear that you are uncertain if it will stick (i.e. you don't believe she'll follow through on her promise in two years) at which time you'll be married and possibly parents. So, I detect a trust issue there also - which I think is the real elephant in the middle of the room.

On that basis, I do not think it wise for you to marry unless these issues are resolved.

cymbaline wrote: »

You're the one who's in America and will be for quite a while. What will you do if she goes back on her word and says no?

He can either stay in the US with her or leave her, return to Ireland, and pay alimony. Additionally if they have kids, he can either stay in the US so he can see them or return to Ireland an never/seldom see them.

john_1983

I am open to living here in the US forever,but it does scare me and it is not what I want right now.I'm trying to take the view that if I stay,it will be because I decided to in future,and changed my mind.
If she said no in future,I would hold her to her promise....being forced to stay here would be too much resentment,a divorce would maybe be better.I do trust her to keep her word,like the other promises made at marriage

The Corinthian

john_1983 wrote: »

If she said no in future,I would hold her to her promise....

Ultimately, you can't.

I do trust her to keep her word,like the other promises made at marriage

If this is the case, then fair enough. However, if you are currently undergoing counselling even before being married and these doubts are already present, I would hold off making a commitment such as marriage if I were you, until they're resolved.

Susie_Q

john_1983 wrote: »

If she said no in future,I would hold her to her promise....being forced to stay here would be too much resentment,a divorce would maybe be better.

You're already considering divorce BEFORE you're even married? I really don't think this is a solid basis for a marriage. Why don't you hold off on the wedding until you have completed counselling and you are both agreed on where you will live in the future?

LegacyUser

John,

I am lost from what you stated from that first sentence on post #3. This sent out a red flag to me. You said that you can live without her but prefer not to. I sense ambiguity. What are your true feelings about living in America? You lived there two years.... do you like it now? If not, do you think living a few more years would actually change your mind? Or are you hoping she will change hers for you? If she did keep her word, do you think it would be fair to her to move back to a country she doesn’t like either?

When I first came to Ireland my intention was to come for two years and move back home. I decided to stay longer as I got scholarship from university. If I did not like it here, no free schooling or some guy would keep me at a place that made me unhappy. I was here two years already then and would have gladly packed my bags and left as planned.

No country will ever be the same as your own. But I think it’s important enough to like where you live. But I also think it is equally important to integrate socially and culturally to the new country you are residing in. At least this can help determine if you see a future there. Remove the fiancée from the picture. Would you stay there now? I know two years was enough for me to decide if I would stay and my husband was not at all in the picture then. My complaints living here are based on trivial things like the climate and food. All I do to overcome them is not eat out and take that holiday to a sunny warm place. I would think it’s crazy to settle somewhere if you didn’t like the people, way of life, culture or social structure as they would have a greater impact on your level of overall happiness. If thinking that getting married would make it manageable, it’s not. Never create a marriage that is at risk of turning to resentments and a divorce. Why plan marrying if you have divorce on your mind already? You are better off living together longer and resolve this issue first. Why rush into this marriage? Is your visa expiring or something? I never been in your situation OP but I had met others who had. Some who stayed in Ireland and hated living here because they were married to someone from here. The false promises made by some OHs promising to leave to move to their country. Some waited until they could no longer take it and became very bitter because their partners kept delaying the process for another year, etc. What got to me was that family units were torn apart because children were in the picture.

My only real sacrifice settling here was leaving my family back home. I do get homesick at times but who doesn't? It's natural way to feel and does not make me like living here any less. It just means it’s time for a holiday visit to family. If you don’t like it over there, then maybe you don’t. No one or no circumstance will change how you feel. I may be wrong but I don't think it is something as simple as agreeing or deciding. I think you have to go with how you are actually feeling on this one.

john_1983

We've been going to counselling just over this issue, since we get along very well and are very compatible in every other sense. I think we won't be going anymore to counselling, since it really is decision time - today in fact is the day we are supposed to send the save the dates.
I wouldn't stay here if my fiancee was not from here - i have no ties to this place - all my family and friends are back in Ireland.
I'm not considering divorce already as someone said - I do fear the situation where in 10 years we still cannot resolve this and it is just eating away at us - we'd have to just pick a third place or one of us make the sacrifice of moving country forever, or yes, the option of divorce, which I almost think is not an option.
I have the same fears she has on this, but I can't seem to deal with them as well until I know the wheels are in motion and the wedding is on. For me, that starts when we put the save the dates in the post, and that is the big leap of faith for me. Yes, we're not married till the day we are married, but it's a lot easier to deal with this now than later.
Ultimately, these are very real fears which anyone would have, but I think the uncertainty is something I have trouble dealing with more than most. It's not that I dislike the US, it is more that I am homesick for Ireland. And by getting married, that could be a permanent homesickness, which would be hard to live with forever. That is why it is such a big leap of faith for me.

john_1983

Also, she's lived in Ireland before for 2 years and she does like it there more than I like it here I think, but she still prefers the US since it is her home. So I don't think it's a case of me asking her to move somewhere she does not like. I think she adapted better to Ireland than I did to the US, and we both know that, but she wants to still have me try here for a few more years at least, which I said I was willing to do but warned her that it is quite likely I will want to move back to Ireland in a few years (about 4 years). She's willing to accept that at this stage, it's just me with the jitters of "what if she changes her mind or doesn't like Ireland anymore when we move there later". Deep down, I think this is me being scared of the worst case scenario, and I would be foolish to throw away a good thing by letting my fears overcome me. To have her move back to Ireland with me would be my dream come true. If we end up staying here in the US, maybe I will be ok with that when the time comes too, and with kids etc maybe priorities change, and the place where you live maybe becomes less important.