Building a baritone guitar (tele type...)

seachto7

Hi all,

I have been looking around for a baritone for a good while now, but no joy really finding any to play anywhere. So. I was thinking of buying parts, and getting one built. I am not technical enough to build one, but would source parts. The light bulb going off in my head tells me that if I had a tele body and bought a baritone neck, then hey presto? Right?

I have seen a few demos online of baritone telecasters so will use that as a starting point as I like the sound of them.

Looking on adverts, there appears to be everything from tele bodies to pickguards and so on so no problem getting most bits and bobs in Ireland.

- In theory, I could buy a body (or maybe an old squire and take off the neck and keep the tuners!)

- Buy a baritone tele neck. I was looking at Warmoth, and they seem bloody expensive though! Any alternatives?

- Buy the electronics and pickups separately, unless I buy a squire and use some of the parts?

Is there anything I would have to bear in mind with a baritone, such as the bridge? Would a standard tele bridge be alright?

It looks like something I might spend time on buying parts here and there, until I have everything.

Of course I could also get a strat and buy a strat baritone neck too, but maybe the tele, being pretty basic, would be a good place to work from..

rcaz

You could test it out by getting some flatwound 13s or 14s and tune them to B standard first. A longer neck would be nicer, sure, but a regular scale would be functional.

seachto7

suppose so, but if I were going to buy one, would it be better to not just go the whole hog. I don't know anyone with a tele to test it, though I could try the string gauges on another guitar I reckon....

Elysian

Fender make a baritone Tele: http://www.fender.com/en-GB/products/blacktop/models.php/?prodNo=0148700

Xmusic have it in stock.

seachto7

don't see it on the website anyhow? I'm not in Dublin, and won't be for another month or so. I quite like the idea of building one over the next year or so.
Just a regular tele with a baritone neck........

rcaz

seachto7 wrote: »

suppose so, but if I were going to buy one, would it be better to not just go the whole hog. I don't know anyone with a tele to test it, though I could try the string gauges on another guitar I reckon....

Go for it then, and start building! It'd be a simple job, four screws and a bit of soldering and you're golden.

That Blacktop Tele only has a 27" scale length, that's just two extra inches compared to a regular Tele. Definitely worth getting a cheap Tele and throwing massive strings on first I reckon :cool:

seachto7

you reckon? hmmm, I was thinking of picking up a cheap tele anyhow, and then getting a neck for it. Suppose I could try that.
I would also have to bear in mind the tuners? Thick gauge strings would require tuners with larger string holes in them?
Would throwing heavy lower tuned strings on a regular scale length neck do anything to the truss rod?

damonjewel

Interesting thread, which motivated me to take my tele, string it with flat tapewound jazz strings (12-52) and tuned it B-B. And it works great. I think to tune it down further would probably mean having a longer neck to keep the tension.

I believe warmoth necks are made only to fit warmoth bodies so it may not fit a standard tele's neck pocket. Try these guys they made me a custom neck to order at a good price. Not sure if they'd do a 27" neck but they were very helpful when I dealt with them.

http://www.usacustomguitars.com/

seachto7

I was going to either buy a blank body, or an old squire, or a tele copy, and gut the body (or upgrade parts), put on a baritone neck, and add the electronics and parts as I go.
But I should take into account where I get the neck, as it may not fit the body.
So, maybe a squire might be best, as I am thinking they would use general fender measurements for their guitars?

damonjewel

There are different dimensions for squier and fender etc. Its just millimetres but it could be enough to have a mismatch. If I were you I'd buy a second hand squier tele. String it with large strings and see how it goes. Upgrade pickups and electronics if need be. Then if you want to drop deeper then order a custom neck.

If you measure the pocket dimensions carefully and let your supplier know what you want then you should be fine.

seachto7

damonjewel wrote: »

There are different dimensions for squier and fender etc. Its just millimetres but it could be enough to have a mismatch. If I were you I'd buy a second hand squier tele. String it with large strings and see how it goes. Upgrade pickups and electronics if need be. Then if you want to drop deeper then order a custom neck.

If you measure the pocket dimensions carefully and let your supplier know what you want then you should be fine.

I could try this. (off to adverts now!).

So, this for example: http://www.adverts.ie/electric-guitars/squire-telecaster/1084263

There are also a few copies of teles, such as Freya. Would it be worth even going for one of these, or would the dimensions be different (if I were to go for a new neck down the line)

Demeyes

I've played a few baritone guitars, I've got guitars with 26.5 and 28 inch scale necks on them. I don't think I'd be able to use a guitar with longer than 28 scale comfortably, I'd like to try a guitar with a 27 inch scale as I think that is a nice middle ground.
Tuners on normal guitars are the same as what they'd put on a baritone guitar, even though generally you'd be using bigger strings. Sometimes it can be hard to fit a string over a .60 into a tuner, you can unwind the outer core of the string or drill out the hole in the tuner to get the string to fit. That is something worth considering if you want to use big strings.
If I were you I'd grab a cheap squier or mex tele and throw big strings on it and see if that will get you close enough to what you want. Getting a neck built will cost a nice bit though as you'd probably be going warmoth or getting a luthier to custom build it.
Telecasters are fantastic project guitars as the parts are generally quiet simple and work well. There are always loads of options for parts too because it's a popular shape. If I ever get into building my first guitar will be a telecaster for sure.

seachto7

@Demeyes, yeah, that's why I chose a tele. If I got a squire, once I figured out whether to get a neck or not, then I could mess around with everything else on it...

Squidgy Black

You'll have to re-adjust the tension rod and more than likely cut a new nut/file the slots in order to fit strings that are a gauge or two upwards than what you're used to.

rcaz

seachto7 wrote: »

Would throwing heavy lower tuned strings on a regular scale length neck do anything to the truss rod?

stetyrrell wrote: »

You'll have to re-adjust the tension rod

On this point - I'm not so sure it would matter. If you put 13s or 14s or flatwounds or something onto a guitar set up for 10s and then tuned it up to E standard then yeah, of course you'd need to adjust the truss rod, but if you're going up a few guages of strings and then tuning a whole perfect fourth lower than standard pitch, the tension would be much lower, closer to those original 10s at standard pitch.

If I were you, I'd throw them on and see how it feels. If it doesn't look so good after a few hours/a day, take them off and go about adjusting the truss rod, bearing in mind these things are in constant flux and there's no such thing as a 'perfect' set up.

I have a Jazzmaster that came with 9s and I moved up to 12s on it and did all the truss rod adjustments myself, so I kinda think I know what I'm talking about - having said that I wouldn't trust myself working on anyone else's guitars :pac:

And that black Squier tele looks savage! I love cheap guitars, I love black Teles... Man, get it, regardless of this whole baritone guitar idea :pac:

seachto7

yeah, think ill plump for the tele anyhow.

On a side note mod, I am using ernie ball 10s on a jazzmaster, and am thinking of experimenting with a different gauge.

I was going to try a mid gauge, like 9s, but have read that jazzmasters ideally should have heavier gauges on them....

I have no problem with 10s, just fancy trying out a different gauge...

rcaz

seachto7 wrote: »

yeah, think ill plump for the tele anyhow.

On a side note mod, I am using ernie ball 10s on a jazzmaster, and am thinking of experimenting with a different gauge.

I was going to try a mid gauge, like 9s, but have read that jazzmasters ideally should have heavier gauges on them....

I have no problem with 10s, just fancy trying out a different gauge...

I went up to 12s 'cause the bridge rattles much less with all the greater force pushing down on the saddles. I know you can set the bridge up right or do some modifications like dipping the height screws in loctite, or swap in a different bridge like a Jaguar or Mastery bridge, but going up to heavier strings sorted me out too. Also, after my fingers got a bit stronger, I much prefered the feel of the heavy strings.

seachto7

what about those Freya teles? Would they have the same dimensions as a squire tele?

rcaz

seachto7 wrote: »

what about those Freya teles? Would they have the same dimensions as a squire tele?

I don't know, and there isn't that much info on their website from what I could see... I'd assume so, though, if they're into cloning very popular guitars I can't see why they'd decided to change the scale length or anything.

seachto7

just in case I were to buy a neck......

not heard back from the guy on adverts yet

rcaz

seachto7 wrote: »

just in case I were to buy a neck......

Oh sorry, that's what you meant, I'd say you're better off going with a Squier then, the neck pocket would probably be the standard Fender job that people like Warmoth would build for, if you wanted to get an aftermarket neck.

Have a look at the classic vibe stuff, the Teles are meant to be absolutely quality.

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0303025507

seachto7

rcaz wrote: »

Oh sorry, that's what you meant, I'd say you're better off going with a Squier then, the neck pocket would probably be the standard Fender job that people like Warmoth would build for, if you wanted to get an aftermarket neck.

Have a look at the classic vibe stuff, the Teles are meant to be absolutely quality.

http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=0303025507

Yeah, I have played the classic vibe stuff, and it's great. Might see if I can get a bog standard squire, as the plan is to butcher it along the way (maybe if I picked up a classic vibe, it would be less butchering....)

martinedwards

Totally off the field suggestion....

what about.....

getting a short scale bass....

take off the neck, fill the tuner holes, drill 6 new ones, replace the nut saddle & pickups........

I've made a few instruments (OK, nearly 90!!) and the neck is always the hardest part.... well, certainly the scariest!

my first build was a fretless bass and I used preslotted fretboards for the next 20 or so.

Now that I slot my own fretboards, the sky's the limit. I make mandolins and bouzoukis for sale to build up some funds to make interesting things to keep myself

I did once make an acoustic explorer shaped bouzouki.......

but common sense decreed that I should sell it!!

recent builds include fanned fret tenor guitars and a couple of five string basses......

seachto7

@martinedwards.

Lovely instruments!! The bouzouki is cool. I wouldn't have the ability to go drilling holes in stuff though....

On a side note, one thing I would love to have is a short scale bouzouki with a guitar shaped body, the size of a baby Martin or something.

I was thinking of attempting an instrument making course and making this my goal at the end, an octave mandolin/bouzouki with a big body.......

martinedwards

seachto7 wrote: »

@martinedwards.

Lovely instruments!! The bouzouki is cool. I wouldn't have the ability to go drilling holes in stuff though....

as Mrs Doyle would say......

Ah go on.... go on, go on, go on, go on!

On a side note, one thing I would love to have is a short scale bouzouki with a guitar shaped body, the size of a baby Martin or something.

like this maybe?



now living in the Dublin area......

I was thinking of attempting an instrument making course and making this my goal at the end, an octave mandolin/bouzouki with a big body.......

I started with a course like that.

Led By Sam Irwin who was one of Lowden's original luthiers. the course ran in a college in the evenings and there was a discount for retired students, so the place was full of "old hands" ..... one guy was making his 32rd mandolin.....

it was cheaper to pay the course fees than buy all the tools and then face the wife over the mess........

when I started, I said that I'd be happy if i ended up with a guitar that was of a similar standard that if Id taken the money and gone to a shop rather than buying the wood and paying the course fees.

one of the old hands said that if I ended up with a guitar THAT bad, hed personally slap me in the mouth!!!

seachto7

martinedwards wrote: »

like this maybe?



now living in the Dublin area......

I started with a course like that.

EXACTLY like that!!! hubba hubba!! Any sound samples by any chance?

I was thinking of signing up for a part time option, 2 nights a week, but not sure if I would be able to see out the 2 years it takes to do it.

But for now, getting the bits together for a baritone and THEN an bouzouki with a guitar body!!:cool::cool: