EV Fast charging in 15 minutes standard agreed on

Owen

I'm no Electric Car fan, but I do like other EV's, things like the Twizzy, Mopeds, Bicycles, and in the long term maybe Public Transport/An Post vans and the like.

Manufacturers seem to have come to an agreement on a fast charging connector and standard that claims to charge a DC car in 15 mins. Seems like a Cork - Dublin trip could be doable with a 15 minute layover for coffee!

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/07/u-s-german-automakers-will-demo-fast-charging-system-at-evs26/

September1

It will be able to deliver 100kW DC so twice as much as current CHAdeMO standard, however not neccesarily batteries would be able to take it Note that Japanese manufacturers who provide mass market EVs were actually no part of alliance, which I guess is not so good news.

Leonard Hofstadter

Well if this works, then it is definitely progress. I still think that fuel cells will ultimately turn out to be the best solution in the long run.

MuppetCheck

Well that's the biggest drawback dealt with. 15 minutes is acceptable in my book.

If they can turn the looks into something people actually want then they make a convincing case.

Anan1

MuppetCheck wrote: »

Well that's the biggest drawback dealt with. 15 minutes is acceptable in my book.

If they can turn the looks into something people actually want then they make a convincing case.

I'd say the looks are relatively easy, ICE design (and weight distribution) is constrained by that big lump of an engine.

MuppetCheck

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd say the looks are relatively easy, ICE design (and weight distribution) is constrained by that big lump of an engine.

If they are so easy why must they persist with dull, awkward and often downright ugly designs. The Leaf has managed to be uglier than the Tiida somehow. The Ampera isn't a bad effort though to be fair.

I understand that they are designed to minimise drag etc.

Leonard Hofstadter

If they can fit a sound generator so that they can sound like an ICE then I'm even more for one! It's not as if I, or the vast majority of people out there are idealogically opposed to owning an EV - they're simply useless in their present guise. This though is a step forward, and that has to be welcomed in terms of sustainable travel.

Anan1

MuppetCheck wrote: »

If they are so easy why must they persist with dull, awkward and often downright ugly designs. The Leaf has managed to be uglier than the Tiida somehow. The Ampera isn't a bad effort though to be fair.

I understand that they are designed to minimise drag etc.

I presume they're designing cars that they think will sell in the maximum numbers in their segment, and popular often means dull. They're not dull because they're EV, they're dull in spite of it!

Matt Simis

Anan1 wrote: »

I'd say the looks are relatively easy, ICE design (and weight distribution) is constrained by that big lump of an engine.

Ive been researching building/converting EVs a lot recently and the first thing you find is that while low powered motors (20kw and lower) are very small, anything approaching even common ICE BHP (120bhp + ) gets very big and very heavy... ie a 200Kw AC Motor I looked at recently is 454kg and might fit in a truck. Might. My near 30year old 400bhp (300Kw) V12 engine design is 168kg..

Then there are the batteries, which even using lithium are double the weight and size of a fuel tank. Using anything else and its not uncommon to have 600-800kg of batteries to get decent range.


In a nutshell, ICE is compact and powerful, EV design has far more significant issues than ICE. EV is the massive lump.

The problem with the DC fast chargers is that they are very expensive compared to the AC chargers the ESB use.

The Renault Zoe will be the only car that can take full advantage of them when it's released at the end of the year. 0-100 % charge in 1 hour currently and 30 mins once the esb finish upgrading to 44 kw.

The ESB only have to provide the 3 phase ac as the charger is built into Zoe.

There are far more ac charging points than fast dc.

Nissan are developing 10 min charging. But in reality it will take less as you will never arrive at a charger with 0 capacity remaining, same goes with the leaf it will fast charge in under 30 mins, as will Zoe.

And I don't agree that Hydrogen will have a future, unless the world suddenly changes their opinions on Nuclear power, especially Ireland. And the Nuclear industry should develops L.F.T.R!

It makes better sense to put the wasted power that would go into making hydrogen into batteries.

Hydrogen would be much much more expensive than electricity!

September1

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem with the DC fast chargers is that they are very expensive compared to the AC chargers the ESB use.

They are expensive now, because it is costly to make device that will convert 50+kW AC into 50kW DC...

The Renault Zoe will be the only car that can take full advantage of them when it's released at the end of the year. 0-100 % charge in 1 hour currently and 30 mins once the esb finish upgrading to 44 kw.

...but Renault is able to include 44kW AC to 40kW DC rectifier on board. There could be some information that we are missing, or CHAdeMO chargers will collapse in price.

Sesshoumaru

Matt Simis wrote: »

Ive been researching building/converting EVs a lot recently and the first thing you find is that while low powered motors (20kw and lower) are very small, anything approaching even common ICE BHP (120bhp + ) gets very big and very heavy... ie a 200Kw AC Motor I looked at recently is 454kg and might fit in a truck. Might. My near 30year old 400bhp (300Kw) V12 engine design is 168kg..

Then there are the batteries, which even using lithium are double the weight and size of a fuel tank. Using anything else and its not uncommon to have 600-800kg of batteries to get decent range.


In a nutshell, ICE is compact and powerful, EV design has far more significant issues than ICE. EV is the massive lump.

I think they are already being made quite light and powerful. Converted to kilograms this bike weights 247kg.

The Mission R features the latest components from MissionEVT, the EV powertrain technology arm of Mission Motors. MissionEVT components are powerful, intelligent, and efficient. The Mission R packs 14.4 kWh and 141 horsepower in a package smaller than a modern 600cc sportbike. The liquid-cooled 3-phase AC Induction motor creates 115 ft-lbs of torque at the crank from 0 to 6400 RPM, propelling the Mission R to a top speed of over 160mph in a singe gear. The MissionEVT 100kW motor controller, with customizable regenerative braking maps and throttle maps, allows the rider to tune the bike to his or her preferences.

http://plugbike.com/2010/12/17/mission-r-specs/

I linked to this EV bike to emphasise how light and small the motor and battery pack can be. However the new Ford Focus EV has 130bhp and looks exactly like the ICE equivalent.

http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/

As for conversion, these guys (who don't look particularly big or super well financed) have got a 420hp electric motor into an old 1995 BMW M3

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/electric-bmw-m3-set-for-pikes-peak-video-45046.html

ShadowHearth

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

I think they are already being made quite light and powerful. Converted to kilograms this bike weights 247kg.

sound alone nearly gave me cancer

Eric Cartman

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

if they get 15 minute charging to work in something liek that id consider going to the dark side. still wont have that wonderful engine grunt though

September1

Here is reason why this standard came to existence:
http://xkcd.com/927/