National Vote on Fees (14th-20th May)

errlloyd

Between the 14th and 20th of May USI will be taking an online preferendum on their stance on fees. You will need your name and student number to vote.

Its experimental, I believe its the first time internet voting has been used in the Republic, although it is used in the North. As boardsies I am sure most of you agree the idea of online voting is an effective way to get a decent democracy.

Here is the information, I would encourage a vote for a Student Loan system or a Graduate Tax. If anyone has any question I'll try my best to answer.

http://www.usivote.com/

Muir

What I don't really like is there's info on how they could be implemented, but nothing definite. Bringing in a graduate tax/loan system means no income for the government from students for 3-4 years, so it's costly to start up. Maybe something like pay a small proportion of fees upfront & then a percentage back in graduate tax.

errlloyd

Muir wrote: »

What I don't really like is there's info on how they could be implemented, but nothing definite. Bringing in a graduate tax/loan system means no income for the government from students for 3-4 years, so it's costly to start up. Maybe something like pay a small proportion of fees upfront & then a percentage back in graduate tax.

Legitimate concern. The reason I am voting for a student loan over a grad tax is because the government will probably be able to to borrow more effectively for a student loan scheme because its also personally guaranteed by the student.

[Jackass]

Whatever the outcome, would most agree that it's very unlikely to be in place for the 2012/13 academic year? (given the national budget isn't until December..)

Iwasfrozen

errlloyd wrote: »

Legitimate concern. The reason I am voting for a student loan over a grad tax is because the government will probably be able to to borrow more effectively for a student loan scheme because its also personally guaranteed by the student.

This confuses me, why would any student vote for a graduate tax? That means you don't like free education and want to pay for it. Don't get me wrong. I'm all for student loan scheme's and graduate taxes but after I've graduated.

VALIS

Don't forget to vote. The poll is now open.

Pandoras Twist

Who do you pick for your Identity Provider? I picked NUI but it wont let me sign in.

Sierra Oscar

Pandoras Twist wrote: »

Who do you pick for your Identity Provider? I picked NUI but it wont let me sign in.

Pick UCD as the identity provider (assuming you are in UCD that is!), not NUI.

The list really should be in alphabetical order - every step should be taken to ensure potential voters are not disorientated and just put off voting as a result.

[Jackass]

Yeah confused me for a second, but UCD is near start of the list for some reason.

Maldesu

Think the graduate tax is a terrible idea. To many students in Ireland will leave to the UK or beyond to continue on with masters etc and probably won't return here from lack of jobs or just wanting to stay out of Ireland. I just don't see it working.

errlloyd

Australia and New Zealand have Bi-Lateral agreements with each other, the UK, Ireland and Canada. Apparently we'd have similar bi-lateral agreements which would mean even people who emigrate pay the grad tax. Not 100% versed on the specifics.

To be fair if 30% of people pay it back in full and 70% of people dodge, it'll still put more money into education than the current system!

Chucky the tree

Maldesu wrote: »

Think the graduate tax is a terrible idea. To many students in Ireland will leave to the UK or beyond to continue on with masters etc and probably won't return here from lack of jobs or just wanting to stay out of Ireland. I just don't see it working.

Bit OTT. If you kept the current €2k up front than the rest graduate tax then people would only pay off €15k max. Not sure many people will do a runner forever just because of €15k.

myk

errlloyd wrote: »

Between the 14th and 20th of May USI will be taking an online preferendum on their stance on fees. You will need your name and student number to vote.

Its experimental, I believe its the first time internet voting has been used in the Republic, although it is used in the North. As boardsies I am sure most of you agree the idea of online voting is an effective way to get a decent democracy.

Here is the information, I would encourage a vote for a Student Loan system or a Graduate Tax. If anyone has any question I'll try my best to answer.

http://www.usivote.com/

Why do you assume that boardsies are in favour of online voting? Surely computer literate people are more aware of how vulnerable it is to compromise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O7FMWc1foKg

OneOfThem Stumbled

Again the vote makes no mention of means tests. Could full fees include means test, or perhaps graduate tax without? As such it is a meaningless gauge on opinion on how to fund the universities. Imo.

Maldesu

errlloyd wrote: »

Australia and New Zealand have Bi-Lateral agreements with each other, the UK, Ireland and Canada. Apparently we'd have similar bi-lateral agreements which would mean even people who emigrate pay the grad tax. Not 100% versed on the specifics.

Aussie and New Zealand are rather dependant on each other so it works to support each other on the tax. Aussie is also a former colony of the UK as is Canada, so creating the agreement wouldn't be such an issue. Not sure how Ireland fits in to it. The problem would be getting an agreement between Ireland and the UK, other EU countries and the Americas. Not many countries will want to get involved in tax based agreements with us right now.

To be fair if 30% of people pay it back in full and 70% of people dodge, it'll still put more money into education than the current system!

So who pays for the 70% that avoided?

Chucky the tree wrote:

Not sure many people will do a runner forever just because of €15k.

You'd be surprised. Many that do return home would be coming home because of difficulties abroad and the prospect of the being taxed for the amount may not appeal.
We also have no idea of the rate of tax it would be charged at on top of current tax rates (which could yet change) and the universal social charge. What if the fees change and start going up? When 15k turns to 20k?

In the end up though, it would depend on how the grad tax is implemented, the rates and if fees remain fixed. I just see it ending badly.