Feel guilty for not getting loan

LegacyUser

Will keep this to the point. A family member of mine is due to go to Oz and basically they'd taken out a loan and had a guarantor. They went through a good bit of it but at the same time were paying the loan back and saving every week. They are out and living the life more than me, not living the lifestyle of someone who is saving to emmigrate. I've just started to get my own debts right down and i'm close to being debt free. They asked me if I could get them a loan as they are now short to pay for the flights. I just said to another family member I wouldn't be doing it as i'm only starting to get myself together and don't want the stress of that loan if they decide to stop paying while they're away. I love this person to bits and really want them to go and i'm hoping they'll have a good life over there, they haven't had it easy. Thing is I fell guilty now for not helping them out, would love to help them out. But at the same time they've been out living the life when they had the money there in their hand to go. What would you do, am I being foolish for feeling guilty???

Feeling guilty is understandable, but unnecessary.

You didn't specify your exact relation to them, but unless you're their parent, you did the right thing to refuse. Don't let it bother you, they were putting you in an awkward position to even ask.

sambuka41

Hi OP you done the right thing, and it will be a benefit to them in the long run, either they'll find someone else or they will learn what it takes to be responsible. I'll be emigrating next year, hate it here, I'd love to go sooner but I won't have the money up until next year, so I just have to wait,same as your relative. Not fun but at it'll all be worth it when I get there.

Procrastastudy

I'm a big fan of some of the advice from Judge Judy (Yes yes I know!)

There's a fantastic line she always comes up with about how lending money to people always ends up with you being the bad guy. The advice is if you can afford to give the money to someone then do it and say "never ask me for money again". If you can't afford to give then don't - regardless of their situation.

Maybe different if it's your child but apart from that - if they cant afford to go to Oz they shouldn't go. Trust me you'll be doing them a service for later life letting them learn this lesson early.

Stavro Mueller

There's a reason why phrases like ''Neither a borrower nor a lender be'' and ''Only join your hands'' have been around for centuries. It can be a messy business. This web page makes some good points about why you shouldn't loan money to family and friends. No. 7 on the list is particularly pertinent I think: you'd be enabling them.

On a human level, of course you're going to feel bad about not helping. But you also have to look out for yourself. You've worked hard to get your own debt down so why should you put everything at risk? Nobody forced your relative to blow their money in the manner they did. It's worth bearing in mind too that you are not the only person in their family so why should you be the one who's expected to go get this loan?

LegacyUser

Hey,

Thanks for the replies. I'm not a parent, but an older sibling. I'm the only person they could ask really, only person in the immediate person that would be in a situation to get the money for them. They can't ask the person who went guarantor for them.

It doesn't matter if you were the only person they could ask, it's not your responsibility. Don't let them make you feel guilty.

Milk & Honey

A friend of mine warned me about that a long time ago. He said never give your siblings anything for nothing.
It will spoil them and make them hate you.
He helped his brothers at different times. He has not seen or spoken to any of them since their mother died over 20 years ago. He didn't even hear that one of his brothers had died for several months after. this is despite them all living within a few miles of each other.

tinkerbell

Not your problem OP, your sibling was out living the high life not saving enough - they knew they were gonna emmigrate and didn't save properly. It's not your problem, you have your own financial commitments.

This could be the best thing to happen to your sibling - learn a bit of responsibility that they can't just bum off people when they need a few quid, they have to save up and be responsible.

Just say no.

MissFlitworth

Don't feel guilty OP, if they already have one loan & they needed a guarantor to get it they flat out can't afford another one. It's your siblings responsibility to get the money together for this themselves. It sounds like they took out a loan for Oz and have spent part of it already here? You wouldn't be helping them out in the long run by enabling them to be irresponsible with money

Wompa1

I took out a 10k loan for my parents when they were on the brink of bankruptcy before. It meant me living in a bad area, in a box room with no window and a single bed wedged against two walls. I was under lots of stress to pay the loan, made huge personal sacrifices and felt pretty depressed because of it.

I never got fully paid back and to make matters worse my father refuses to acknowledge what I did. The last few years X-mas day has ended with me leaving the house around 4 or 5 and going to my own home out of frustration. My mother brings up how thankful she is and how much they owe me and my father yells his head off that he never wanted the loan and could have got by....I shouldn't have given them it. It wasn't worth the sacrifice. You won't get paid back and your good deed will be long forgotten in a few weeks

thefeatheredcat

Toosoft??? wrote: »

I've just started to get my own debts right down and i'm close to being debt free. They asked me if I could get them a loan as they are now short to pay for the flights. I just said to another family member I wouldn't be doing it as i'm only starting to get myself together and don't want the stress of that loan if they decide to stop paying while they're away.

Toosoft??? wrote: »

They can't ask the person who went guarantor for them.

To ask the person that went guarantor for them (who ultimately holds the responsibility for paying it all back if they default) means they will have to explain to them that they misused the loan - which is why they shouldn't be given a loan in their name or through anyone else - as I'm sure if it was that the loan was for strictly for the purpose of emigrating and paying for flights, getting set up, then the loan should have been enough to cover it all, or at least the majority to cover the flights.

They're short the money for the flights because of their own irresponsibility. Their behavior and responsibility is their sole responsibility and not yours. While you may be seen to be in a privileged position in almost being debt free, you're entitled to be debt free and entitled to say no. You shouldn't feel guilty at all.

You're perfectly within your rights to say no and not feel any guilt. You can help in other ways if you feel that you are letting them down, but in no way should you be forced into action over guilt.

hattoncracker

Don't do it.. I took out a loan for my sister for a car, even though she pays it back weekly, it's causing problems now because I need to take out a loan for myself and because she is now working I want her to take out a loan from d CU to pay hers back so I can get a car loan, and now Im the one being made look like a hitch!!

You may need that money in the future, and may be hindered by the loan you would already have.. It's not worth it!

stargazer 68

Well OP I agree with the others - you have done exactly the right thing. Yes you will feel a bit guilty but if they are emigrating for a better life then they need to work at it themselves. Loaning them money will not do them any favours.

kayos

Toosoft??? wrote: »

Hey,

Thanks for the replies. I'm not a parent, but an older sibling. I'm the only person they could ask really, only person in the immediate person that would be in a situation to get the money for them. They can't ask the person who went guarantor for them.

Your sibling needs to learn to manage their own cash. Not like they didn't know they would have to pay for the flights to Oz. Or did they intend to stow away and mop the decks on a ship to pay their passage.....

Sleepy

If they don't have enough to cover the plane ticket, how on earth are they planning to emigrate to Australia. Border control won't even let them into the country without being able to prove that they have enough cash to support themselves for a few months or have an employer sponsoring them.

Even with such an arrangement, what are they going to live on when they get there? Starting life in a new place is expensive: you need security deposits, a months rent up front, may need to buy new work clothes etc. etc. etc. and that's before you even consider feeding yourself whilst waiting on your first pay cheque.

Don't even think about giving him/her the money, you'd be doing them no favours.

Even if OP were a parent, why should he/she take out a loan for someone to emigrate? I'd NEVER ask that of my parents! To me, asking someone else for money is something you do when you're really desperate. I'm talking in need of medical treatment or something like that. If your sibling wants to emigrate, OP, let them sort out their own arrangements. Why should you suffer so they can do what they want? It's especially insulting if they're spending money on going out instead of saving every penny.

LegacyUser

Sleepy wrote: »

If they don't have enough to cover the plane ticket, how on earth are they planning to emigrate to Australia. Border control won't even let them into the country without being able to prove that they have enough cash to support themselves for a few months or have an employer sponsoring them.

Even with such an arrangement, what are they going to live on when they get there? Starting life in a new place is expensive: you need security deposits, a months rent up front, may need to buy new work clothes etc. etc. etc. and that's before you even consider feeding yourself whilst waiting on your first pay cheque.

Don't even think about giving him/her the money, you'd be doing them no favours.

Think your missing the point, they have money in their account just need a few bob extra for flights

Susie_Q

Toosoft??? wrote: »

Think your missing the point, they have money in their account just need a few bob extra for flights

I'm missing something now then - they have plenty of money but now are asking you for more?! Am pretty sure they need thousands of euro/ dollars in their account in order to satisfy immigration in Oz, so clearly they're not broke.

For the record, saying no was the right thing to do. You're teaching them financial responsibility and discipline. Well done OP, it can't have been easy but you did the right thing.

Penn

Toosoft??? wrote: »

Think your missing the point, they have money in their account just need a few bob extra for flights

But how are they going to pay you back while they're in Australia? Your sibling isn't going to be thinking of how to start repaying you once they get over there. It could be months before you see anything from them that even resembles money.

There's nothing to feel guilty about. If you'd have to take out a loan, then you can't afford to give them the money. Taking out a loan pushes you further into debt, not them. It places too much of a financial burden on you, not them.

Help them in whatever way you can, but you having to take out a loan for their flights goes beyond that and they shouldn't have asked you to do that. If your sibling can't afford to go, they shouldn't be going. Not saving up properly while they were here is their fault, not yours.

Oryx

I think guilt is a better emotion to be feeling right now, rather than resentment and anger at a later date if repayments for your loan arent forthcoming, and youre struggling to pay back their debt.

If they cant afford to go off their own effort, they cant afford to go. Youre doing them a favour (though they may never realise it) in teaching them that someone else wont always bail them out.

LegacyUser

Well I was basically told to F*** off yesterday when I said I didn't want to discuss it after having a long and stressful day. Received a call from parent saying there were sorry and parent said if I go guarantor they'll guarantee i'll get the money back. The credit union has said I could go guarantor just for the extra money (apparentely).

Beruthiel

Toosoft??? wrote: »

I'm not a parent, but an older sibling. I'm the only person they could ask really, only person in the immediate person that would be in a situation to get the money for them. They can't ask the person who went guarantor for them.

I don't get people who take out loans for what I would consider frivolous things.
The only thing I have ever taken a loan out on was a house mortgage.
Everything else I purchased was done through saving up first.
If you cannot afford it, don't buy it.
Live within your means.
That is a good lesson for your sister to learn.

No offense OP, but your sister had a cheek to ask such a thing from you.
If she cannot save up of her own accord, you're not there as a back up plan.
I would never, ever ask anyone to do such a thing for me.
A grown adult should learn to stand on their own two feet.
If she cannot afford to go now, let her save up until she can.
That's how it works.
Not for one second should you feel guilty for saying no.
It is your sister who should feel guilt for putting you in such an awkward position.

Also, I feel the need to point out that I think it quite shocking that your parents are encouraging this kind of behaviour.
I would have thought, a parents job would be to teach their child to live within their means, not putting themselves in debt.

leeroybrown

Don't touch it. If someone is living off "lifestyle" debts when they know they need funds to emigrate then they can't be trusted to repay the money in a timely fashion. I've loaned money to friend before but those were mates who needed a dig out and weren't sponging off me because they'd been living the life. If they were my sibling and messing around like that they could sit on their arse for another few months while they saved up the extra money. The attitude they seem to have shown to you would be the death nail in any chance they had of getting the money.

Linoge

Surely the flights would have been the first thing they have saved for?

They are keeping their spending money for a little holiday when they get over there and asking you for "flights" money. That way if you say no you are are the btch as they can't go without you giving them the money. If they had paid for the flights and asked you for walking around money it wouldn't put you under so much pressure.

Sounds very purposeful to me. Flights are usually first thing paid for.

thefeatheredcat

Toosoft? wrote: »

Well I was basically told to F*** off yesterday when I said I didn't want to discuss it after having a long and stressful day. Received a call from parent saying there were sorry and parent said if I go guarantor they'll guarantee i'll get the money back. The credit union has said I could go guarantor just for the extra money (apparentely).

Have you discussed this directly with the credit union yourself, or is this second hand information?

Is there a possibility that the credit union can just extend the original loan amount with the existing guarantor as part of that original agreement, without having to add a 2nd guarantor to the process? Can you get any of that in writing if this is being offered on a discretionary basis?

It sounds as though your parents want you to take on the loan and that they will fund it being paid back by offering a guarantee to that effect to you?

Look don't be forced into it by pressure by anyone, especially your parents. Just because you're almost debt free doesn't mean you have to run around being the solution to someone else's financial difficulty. You have the right to say no and not be berated for it or suffer any fallout.

If you are considering it, make sure you know the full ins and outs of the situation before you commit yourself to it including setting up a direct method of it being paid back (such as a standing order) if you are worried that there is a great risk of it going unpaid. I'd have all that agreed and set up with your sibling and agreed with your parents before signing anything so that there's no chance of the same thing happening twice, or that indeed due to any possible irresponsibility on behalf of your sibling that your folks end up not just paying out of their own pocket the loan + interest, but paying you back the loan you've backed + interest on top of it.

tinkerbell

Toosoft? wrote: »

Well I was basically told to F*** off yesterday when I said I didn't want to discuss it after having a long and stressful day. Received a call from parent saying there were sorry and parent said if I go guarantor they'll guarantee i'll get the money back. The credit union has said I could go guarantor just for the extra money (apparentely).

Your parents are so foolish. DO NOT listen to them. Do not go guarantor for this money, you know what guarantor is right? If your sibling doesn't pay, the bank will come after you. It's not your problem, tell them you will be having NO PART in this whatsoever.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Do not take out a loan to send them off on a nice holiday. And do not go guarantor. They are foolish with their money, they want more money now and they wont care when they land their ass in australia. It'll be left up to you to pay. I am so mad at this. Its a recession for some of us, while they're living the life. They knew they were going, so they should sort it all out themselves. Keep refusing to get the loan for them. If they want to go, it won't stop them.

But having a parent that also puts pressure on you. I think if they didn't pay off the loan and left it up to the parent. I think you'll be helping out the parent with this loan too. Don't enable this kind of behaviour.

LegacyUser

I'm sitting here with a headache because of this, got an apology from sibling saying it's only signing for a loan not like I want you to take out a loan yourself. (Even though this was the initial plan) Seems there's not even enough in the pot to cover the money required in the bank account if I cover the loan for flights. Parent rang me earlier about this, rang parent back and said i'd a headache with it can they not do X, Y and Z to which I got a response "i'm not getting involved" and "don't snap at me". I'm honestly sick to death of it.

Big Bag of Chips

Just keep saying no. And stop answering your phone if needs be!

leeroybrown

Signing as guarantor for a loan and taking it out yourself are pretty much the same thing in the eyes of a court. If the money isn't repaid you still end up owning it and the judgements still go against your name if you don't pay it for them.

As you already know they were using their travel loan to support their lifestyle here even when they knew they needed the money for flights and cash reserves to get through Australian immigration. If they're taking out the Australian working holiday visa it only activates from when you enter the country so they can easily delay their departure and save money here if they really want to go. By the sounds of it they've already been delaying departure and living the life off the original travel loan.

If it were me I'd tell them it's a bit late for apologies and extra loans. They can tighten their belt and save the money they need if they want to go.

Mrs Garth Brooks

Toosoft? wrote: »

I'm sitting here with a headache because of this, got an apology from sibling saying it's only signing for a loan not like I want you to take out a loan yourself. (Even though this was the initial plan) Seems there's not even enough in the pot to cover the money required in the bank account if I cover the loan for flights. Parent rang me earlier about this, rang parent back and said i'd a headache with it can they not do X, Y and Z to which I got a response "i'm not getting involved" and "don't snap at me". I'm honestly sick to death of it.

How about telling them to put it off for a few months? They cant afford to go. Tell them to start saving. Its not as if they have to go and anyway can't you change dates with the flights. Get them to change dates to a time they can afford it. Dont let them put the pressure onto you. Its not your responsibility.

Sleepy

Toosoft? wrote: »

I got a response "i'm not getting involved"

There you go. Learn from your parents and use the same line every time anyone raises the issue again.

Susie_Q

To be honest it sounds like you're gonna do it anyway, and came on here looking for validation and support. You won't find it - giving the loan is the wrong bloody decision.

LegacyUser

Susie_Q wrote: »

To be honest it sounds like you're gonna do it anyway, and came on here looking for validation and support. You won't find it - giving the loan is the wrong bloody decision.

You serious????? I've never given one indication that I was gonna get this loan, did you read the thread title.

Linoge

Susie_Q wrote: »

To be honest it sounds like you're gonna do it anyway, and came on here looking for validation and support. You won't find it - giving the loan is the wrong bloody decision.

Have to agree with this. Don't know what you are waiting for. You have all the advise in the world on this thread but haven't used an ounce. You are more moaning than looking for advise tbh.

Stavro Mueller

All you have to do is say No and stick to your guns. Simples.

Ickle Magoo

Toosoft??? wrote: »

You serious????? I've never given one indication that I was gonna get this loan, did you read the thread title.

And you have plenty of advise on why you shouldn't feel guilty - so I'm going to lock the thread.

If ever you feel bad, I'd advise you to re-read the three pages of advice already proffered.

All the best. :cool: