Electro shock punishment

SugarHigh

http://www.politicolnews.com/teen-electrocuted-for-refusing-to-take-off-his-coat/#ixzz1u3Y9hdpM

Whats the thinking behind this sort of treatment? Has it ever been shown to work?

Odysseus

I'm no expert on it, but it is still occassionally used today and from what I know it does aid improvements in mood. I did not watch the vid so I'm not sure what way ECT was shown there.

sambuka41

Its hard to tell from the video exactly what its been used for, the lawyer said aversion therapy for aggression? Which I haven't heard of so can't really comment on it; other than the premise sounds bonkers to me!

But in another shot it looks like shocks were being used as a method of restraint/ compliance when he wouldn't take off his coat.
Granted, working with adolescents who are aggressive can be dangerous, I've seen colleagues assaulted, but there are other ways to manage the situation rather than shocking someone. Seen as the center tried to have the tape suppressed for 8 years I'd imagine even they know that this is extreme, and really is torture.

JuliusCaesar

This is NOT ECT. In Ireland, only psychiatrists give ECT - Electric Convulsive Therapy - and only iirc for treatment-resistant depression, as a last resort. What happens in the video is nothing like ECT.


This article says that the Judge Rotenberg Centre which featured in the video above has only given testimonials in support of their treatment. From the article it seems that they use punishment (painful electric shocks) to try to control the behaviour of disabled people:

severely autistic and mentally retarded kids who did dangerous things to themselves and others. To change their behavior, he developed a large repertoire of punishments: spraying kids in the face with water, shoving ammonia under their noses, pinching the soles of their feet, smacking them with a spatula, forcing them to wear a 'white-noise helmet' that assaulted them with static

I can't see that as being in any way lawful in Ireland. It is quite simply an assault; it infringes on their human rights; and it is definitely far and away against any kind of best practice.

sambuka41

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

This is NOT ECT. In Ireland, only psychiatrists give ECT - Electric Convulsive Therapy - and only iirc for treatment-resistant depression, as a last resort. What happens in the video is nothing like ECT.

Scary video, it looked like a stun gun or something? Just out of curiosity how is ECT administered? I have never seen it done before.

christmas2012

inhumane practice

TrollHammaren

Apparently Ireland is one of the few countries that still uses ECT, but that could just be one of those urban myths that I haven't bothered verifying. There's a lot of research going into transcranial direct current stimulation (tDCS) at the moment and that seems to be showing some promise as it's non-invasive and no side-effects have yet been demonstrated.

I can't watch the video at the moment, but based on JC's post it sounds horrifying.

JuliusCaesar

Anyway, as said above, the Judge Rotenberg centre used electric shocks to punish undesired behaviour in intellectual disabled clients.

Here's a reddit 'I am a ..." account by a former 'student' from the Judge Rotenberg centre .......it is disturbing to read. According to this, and the usual caveats apply, it seems that the families really didn't care how the results were obtained so long as the person became docile. In many cases, the problem behaviours were due to the family dynamics in the first place. Anyway, read at your own risk. It's unbelievable that this kind of thing has been allowed continue for so long, and legally too.

ABA people will probably have a view on this.

Waking-Dreams

Indeed, as JC states, that video is not ECT. ECT is commonly misunderstood because of its flawed portrayal in the media and in movies. How many people have watched One Flew Over Cuckoo’s Nest and come away thinking that’s what ECT is all about? I know I once did until I read up on it.

These days it’s nowhere near as brutal and involves patients being given aesthetics and muscle relaxants, rendering them unconscious and preventing them from violent convulsions as displayed by Jack Nicholson.

According to Scott O. Lilienfeld, there’s no scientific consensus on how ECT exactly works, but it has been shown to be helpful with severe depression and schizophrenia (but is used as a last resort after other treatments have failed). All of this is in stark contrast to the common misperception that it is used to subdue difficult-to-manage patients or those with behavioural problems like overt aggression.

Anyways, I can’t see Electro Shock Punishment (as depicted in that video) as being in any way helpful. While hardcore Behaviourists might be curious about its use in shaping subsequent operant behaviour, it just looks far too torturous to be deemed a useful intervention.

JuliusCaesar

I think most Behaviourists do not regard punishment as ethical, or indeed even useful.

Waking-Dreams

Nor would I try and suggest they favour it over positive or negative reinforcement, given that both the effects of Punishment may only be temporary (at best) and, as the video explicates, is more likely to induce unnecessary pain and trauma in the subject.

You do wonder how Behaviourism has probably (unintentionally) inspired certain misguided and vindictive people to try out these brutal regimes thinking it will produce the desired result.

Poor kid.

krd

It's not ECT. Its torture.


I've heard of this being used in some youth detention centres in the US. There's a version where they get the kids to wear a device. And a warden can give them electric shocks by remote control.

It is just straight forward torture.

trace51

I am very disappointed to see that the centre has BCBA's working on the team, although they describe their methods as 'behaviour modification'. It would certainly not be considered acceptable practice here, even for aggression or self injurious behaviour. I can't believe they would shock someone for not taking their coat off, I agree with krd, it is torture

Scruffles

have been aware of the JRC for years-its only allowed because the parents give permission.

as someone with severe autism [though intelectualy higher functioning] and also in a specialist severe/profound autism residential service,can say using harming punishments never worked on self because was not able to attach the punishment to whatever it was being done for-it is a concept that still do not get,support staff have said this is called cause and effect and it is very common for those of us with classic autism to struggle to understand the concept of it,so using a physical punishment wil not tell the person-what they have done wrong!

on a daily basis was beaten by dad and hit and roughly restrained by teachers in an attempt to control what they did not understand,felt extremely confused everytime was hit or restrained,had no understanding of what it meant-the punishment does not say anything.
if anything it had caused to feel hated by everyone-so had resented and hated them,
and was more agressive towards them thinking was under attack when they punished.

have always said it and am surprised the bloody place is still going but the JRC is disgusting and any informed parent who cares woud not sign their signature to allow physical punishments.
all of us living here are classed as having severe challenging behavior,and all of us are communicatively impaired to varying levels,what places like the JRC dont understand is agression and other behavior is quite often the resuslt of not having the same abaility as others to express and understand feelings nor communicate to the same level as others.
many of us with classic autism see humans as objects,all of equal worth to everything else-had personaly only become aware of this in adulthood after a meds change,but it is still a concept that has firmly stuck; am just more aware of hurting others being a bad thing-and now do more damage to self via head banging or room trashing than hurting a individual-have got extremely deep regret if ever injure any being.
however; some severe and profound autists who are much more lower functioning than self do not have any awareness of this concept and hurting a person to them is no different to punching a wall.
-autism is an extremely complex condition in which refusal to do things or agression shoud never be automaticaly accepted as deliberately threatening and planned-many of us are like that when we are not well because we do not understand what we are feeling-again,from own perspective; am only able to understand illness in terms of basic head pain or stomach pain, anything more difficult to solve is what other people try to translate.

the staff here are all trained in team teach [ways at dealing with behaviors and only at last resort using restraining methods] and with every restraint method used,staff have to contact CQC over it.
if our centre can deal with complex people of all kinds,then surely america can stop relieing on institutions,bring itself into this century and look at using alternative behavior management.
one thing parents of challenging kids need to stop doing is rewarding them with something they want when they use threatening behavior to get it,am living with an autist who has been spoilt by his family all his life-which got him into a habit of badly attacking his mum;who then rewarded his behavior to get him to backoff-by giving him what he wanted....he is very difficult to live with as a fellow service user-because he thinks he can use agression on everyone to get his own way,same with another girl living here-she used to constantly atempt to come into bedroom [mine!] and steal any food,drink etc she found-even if had just gone out the room for help and dinner was in room,she woud come in and take then try and attack if took it off her-am the type who will fight back if provoked so we both end up fighting before being pulled apart and she being shoved out,she has been spoilt her whole life because it was the easiest way to deal with her early on but it became the nightmare everyone else has to deal with now.