Passing/overtaking on left.

CiniO

Situation like on the picture.
Red car intents to turn right and signals this intention.
In the mean time, blue car decides to pass him on the left using hard shoulder.

Is it legal for blue car to do it?

Does it make any difference if red car is stopped or still moving slowly?


PS - If it's legal for blue car to do that, does he have to use left indicator to do that?

AltAccount

I don't know if it's illegal, but it's certainly reasonable and makes more sense than the alternative. Also, the blue car should definitely indicate IMHO.

Firegaurd

It is legal to overtake on the left.

Taken from the RSA Website
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

<H2>You may overtake on the left when

• You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
• You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
• Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

</H2>

Bohrio

Firegaurd wrote: »

It is legal to overtake on the left.

Taken from the RSA Website
http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html
</H2>

Yes but this refers to roads with 2 lanes or more... or at least it seems like it, it seems there is no easy answer to this question.

To answer this we will need to answer first if its legal to use the hard shoulder to overtake a car turning right, in my opinion it should be possible but the rotr is a bit vague in this matter i think...

Mycroft H

As far as I know there is no legal definition of a hard shoulder in the Roads Act/RTA. Its referred to as an edge of roadway and is defined by its markings.

S.I. No. 181/1997:

ROAD TRAFFIC (SIGNS) REGULATIONS, 1997.

Edge of Roadway.


28. Traffic sign number RRM 025 shall—


(a) indicate the line of the edge of a roadway, other than a motorway, and


(b) consist of a broken yellow line along the edge of a roadway, consisting of segments not less than 100 millimetres and not more than 150 millimetres wide, approximately 2 metres long and approximately 2 metres apart.

Left Edge of Motorway.


29. Traffic sign number RRM 026 shall—


(a) indicate the left hand edge of the carriageway of a motorway, and


(b) consist of a continuous yellow line approximately 150 millimetres wide.
Right Edge of Motorway.


30. Traffic sign number RRM 027 shall—


(a) indicate the right hand edge of the carriageway of a motorway, and


(b) consist of a continuous white line approximately 150 millimetres wide.

Take from that what you will.

However, I the situation above I would indicate right but give way to any traffic to the left of the yellow lines (pedestrians, cyclists, tractors ect...) and pass safely.

Nissan doctor

I would do exactly as mentioned above and have done countless times without issue.

I've also done it on at least one occasion with a Garda car behind me.

CiniO

BX 19 wrote: »

As far as I know there is no legal definition of a hard shoulder in the Roads Act/RTA. Its referred to as an edge of roadway and is defined by its markings.




Take from that what you will.

However, I the situation above I would indicate right but give way to any traffic to the left of the yellow lines (pedestrians, cyclists, tractors ect...) and pass safely.

Thanks for that.
I couldn't find anything mentioned about "hard shoulder" in any road traffic which made me confused, so that's why - it's called edge of a roadway.

Anyway - I just gave it a quick look, and it seems there isn't anything prohibiting to drive on the edge of roadway, so therefore I assume it's legal to overtake on left using hardshoulder like presented on the picture.
But obviously I'm open to corection, as I could have missed something.

Alkers

BX 19 wrote: »

As far as I know there is no legal definition of a hard shoulder in the Roads Act/RTA. Its referred to as an edge of roadway and is defined by its markings.




Take from that what you will.

However, I the situation above I would indicate right but give way to any traffic to the left of the yellow lines (pedestrians, cyclists, tractors ect...) and pass safely.

You mean left surely? I'm not sure if I would indicate or not, depends how close to the red car I was. People do this all the time, even if you swap the hard shoulder for a cycle lane and no-one bats an eye.

djimi

You can use the hard shoulder to pass a car which is stopped and signalling their intention to turn right.

Mr Magners

Simona1986 wrote: »

You mean left surely? I'm not sure if I would indicate or not, depends how close to the red car I was. People do this all the time, even if you swap the hard shoulder for a cycle lane and no-one bats an eye.

Of course you should indicate, if only to warn any other traffic behind you of the obstruction in the road.

djimi

Simona1986 wrote: »

You mean left surely? I'm not sure if I would indicate or not, depends how close to the red car I was. People do this all the time, even if you swap the hard shoulder for a cycle lane and no-one bats an eye.

You indicate whenever you intend to change lanes or move out of the lane you are in. I have no idea why you would think otherwise.

corktina

what about a situation as in the diagram but where there is a solid edged yellow hatched reservation on the shoulder? Im thinking Mallow,sugar factory junction N72 eastbound.

traffic (inc me) habitually crosses this resrvation to pass right turners. I know it's illegal but there would have been loads of room to instal a right turn lane here during the recent revamp. (just giving out really:) )

ironclaw

If it was perfectly safe to do so, I can't see the issue. In fact it would be aiding traffic flow.

That is why it always gets me when you see the Garda occasionally pulling people for going into a bus lane (That is empty) about 50m before your suppose to. Granted its a bus lane but it its completely empty and your clearing it promptly and completely, its counter productive to traffic flow. I've yet to meet a Traffic Corp Garda who actually has a grounding in real Traffic metrics or flow. However, I have no issue with someone being pulled who goes into a bus lane 100's of meters before a turn. Thats ridiculous carry on.

Just thought I'd put that out there for the 'passing on the left' sort of scenario.

Jimdagym

ironclaw wrote: »

If it was perfectly safe to do so, I can't see the issue. In fact it would be aiding traffic flow.

That is why it always gets me when you see the Garda occasionally pulling people for going into a bus lane (That is empty) about 50m before your suppose to. Granted its a bus lane but it its completely empty and your clearing it promptly and completely, its counter productive to traffic flow. I've yet to meet a Traffic Corp Garda who actually has a grounding in real Traffic metrics or flow. However, I have no issue with someone being pulled who goes into a bus lane 100's of meters before a turn. Thats ridiculous carry on.

Just thought I'd put that out there for the 'passing on the left' sort of scenario.

But you have to draw the line somewhere. s 50 meteres acceptable and 51 metres not? I'd rather have the zero tolerance rule in place and leave it to the police discretion (which we know isnt perfect).

mattser

BX 19 wrote: »

As far as I know there is no legal definition of a hard shoulder in the Roads Act/RTA. Its referred to as an edge of roadway and is defined by its markings.




Take from that what you will.

However, I the situation above I would indicate right but give way to any traffic to the left of the yellow lines (pedestrians, cyclists, tractors ect...) and pass safely.

???

Mycroft H

mattser wrote: »

???

yes fair play to all you observant people who noticed I mixed my left with my right.

Buffman

From reading this RSA bit about hard shoulders, using the hard shoulder briefly is ok, so the situation in the OP is ok. I've done it loads of times. As long as there isn't a junction coming up on your side of the road I don't see any issue.

This road contains a hard shoulder, which is normally only for pedestrians and cyclists. If a driver wants to allow a vehicle behind them to overtake, they may pull in to the hard shoulder briefly as long as no pedestrians or cyclists are already using it and no junctions or entrances are nearby. Different rules exist for hard shoulders on motorways. See Motorways section for details.

ironclaw

Jimdagym wrote: »

But you have to draw the line somewhere. s 50 meteres acceptable and 51 metres not? I'd rather have the zero tolerance rule in place and leave it to the police discretion (which we know isnt perfect).

Oh certainly. 50m was a bad example in hindsight. In Stillorgan (Here: http://g.co/maps/5bxfa) you often see the Garda pulling cars for dropping into the bus lane maybe 20m before the broken line. Which is pointless for the simple reason as that stretch is often gridlocked in the morning, so every car that leaves is actually aiding traffic flow. Granted its totally discretionary and you do have to draw the line but when you see them hiding the car/bike to catch people coming around that corner, it really makes my blood boil.

Anyway, on topic!

keithclancy

I'd just go if its safe to do so..... cautiously, while making sure to cover my blind spot on the rear left side in case of Cyclists.

(Actually I nearly creamed a cyclist this way a few months ago, didn't go at all, just noticed him half a second before I moved - Lesson Learned)

hondasam

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.
You have signalled that you intend to turn left.
Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/good-driving-practice/overtaking.html

Always use indicators to let the driver behind you know what you are doing and to let them know there is a car turning right.