Leinster 2012 Calendar

mad m

Here it is.....

Leinster Calendar Sea Races

2old4dacold

there are no distances given???

mad m

2old4dacold wrote: »

there are no distances given???

There never usually is....There is one the 3k Wendy Herbst and the Galway Prom one is around 1.9k...

pc11

I asked about this last year as I was astounded by the lack of info on distances. I got a wishy-washy response saying they don't even know the exact distance until they set out the markers. I don't accept this as I'm sure they at least know the approx. distance and they should list that.

As a newcomer to OW, this is really poor practice and very unfriendly to beginners. How can I have any idea if I can even take part in a swim if I don't know if it's 500m, 1500m, 5000m or whatever?! Imagine entering a running race and not knowing if it's an 800m or a marathon?

Coming from an athletics background, I have found OW swimming to be unwelcoming to newcomers with lots of barriers put in the way and information being difficult to access. If you were a newcomer to running, you would find it much, much easier I believe.

I would appeal to the swimming organisations to consider how they might be more accessible. Would a wetsuit category really be so bad?

EDIT: To be fair, I've just seen the new Leinster Open Sea website and it is an improvement.

mad m

pc11 wrote: »

I asked about this last year as I was astounded by the lack of info on distances. I got a wishy-washy response saying they don't even know the exact distance until they set out the markers. I don't accept this as I'm sure they at least know the approx. distance and they should list that.

As a newcomer to OW, this is really poor practice and very unfriendly to beginners. How can I have any idea if I can even take part in a swim if I don't know if it's 500m, 1500m, 5000m or whatever?! Imagine entering a running race and not knowing if it's an 800m or a marathon?

Coming from an athletics background, I have found OW swimming to be unwelcoming to newcomers with lots of barriers put in the way and information being difficult access. If you were a newcomer to running, you would find it much, much easier I believe.

I would appeal to the swimming organisations to consider how they might be more welcoming and accessible.

Why not give them an email...But it does state it here, if scroll down a bit

Race Course: Races should be a minimum of 1500m in length. The race course will be
marked by a number of buoys and will be described by race officials at the race briefing at the start of each race (15 minutes before the start). Swimmers must obey the race course passing around the outside of each buoy marking the course. Failure to follow the course will lead to disqualification.

Link

pc11

Mad M, that pretty much sums it up actually!

Not only is it impossibly vague, but there it says races are at least 1500m and on their Facebook page they say races are typically LESS than 1500m.

mad m

Well from my experience I take nearly all races are 1500m. Apart from

Wendy Herbst 3k
Tommy Durgan 5k (Can't see it on Calendar?)
The Island at least 2k
Galway Prom 1.9k
Half moon swims some are over 1.5k at their club in Ringsend South wall
Eddie Heron 2.5k

Obviously the Liffey and Dun Laoghaire Harbour races also over 2k.

There is some new races in there so I assume they will be 1.5k.

So there is not an awful lot of races in the Leinster Calendar that are over 1.5k really.....

If some races are at Windsurfers they normally put buoys up near Seapoint and same for a race starting at Seapoint buoys down near windsurfers...

Now I hope this helps.....Ever since I started Sea races I've not come across anyone that's not helpful, I'm sorry you feel that as a beginner it was not helpful when at any races. All I can say is I'll help you out here as much as possible and please don't be put off entering them...

Hope everyone has a good and safe Season!!!!

Edit: Just seen on the FB page of Open Sea that this Calendar is just a draft and they will post distances when they amend it....:)

pc11

Thanks Mad M, that's very helpful. Now, if only the organisation was like that we wouldn't need to have this thread. It still is very confusing when the site says races OVER 1500 m, FB says less than 1500m and you say most ARE 1500m. There simply shouldn't be this confusion and we shouldn't need to have to phone or email and ask. Just list the distances with the race, simples!!

Also, to a novice it's not obvious that DL and Liffey are over 2K.

Now, I didn't mean that individuals are unhelpful, I mean organisationally. It feels like the OW races are almost closed shops of people who have been swimming for years, know all about it and you have to ask exactly the right question to get an answer. And, frankly, the attititude to triathletes is borderline hostile, just look here on boards.ie! (to be fair, cycling clubs are not much better, athletics clubs seem fine with triathletes). No wonder triathlon is growing rapidly, as it's inclusive and beginner-friendly.

Clearly I'm not the only one who feels this way. There are comments here and on FB asking about the distances. As it's the most obvious question a beginner will have, the clear signal is that novices are not encouraged.

Why are there not specific beginners' events? Some short, easy races specifically geared for beginners? These are a major feature of athletics clubs (see Fit4Life) and there are no barriers whatsoever to entering a local 5K or pretty much any other race with no need to join a club. A novice OW swimmer would have to go straight from the pool to a 1500m race with no wetsuit possibly in rough water with a tide - that's quite a big step! Why not make it easier? Dublin Wheelers went to a lot of trouble last year to welcome beginner-ish cyclists and Triathlon clubs organise Try-a-Tris all the time.

Conclusion: beginners not welcome. I note that one swim club did organise beginners' talks recently, that's a welcome development, but clubs in other sports do this routinely. Do swim clubs not want more members??!

Ok, I'll put it out there to the swim clubs organising OW races this summer: will you add a beginners' race to your event? How about 500-750 metres, with lots of encouragement and allow wetsuits. No prizes are needed. Is there a club that is open and welcoming enough? And again, would a wetsuit category in general really be such a threat?

There are a bunch of swim events springing up to cater for the obvious demand, eg look at http://www.openwaterswimmer.ie and people are bypassing the swim clubs. Is this what they want?

Fair play to you for taking time to help today, but the fact is it shouldn't be necessary! By the way, it's quite buried away on FB that the distances will be posted but I hope they will be and soon.

mad m

I can see where your coming from in terms of a novice's points of view. It can be daunting having to go from pool to sea ( I know, been there). But have seen great club swimmers in pool having trouble at swimming in the sea. From the view of the Open Sea committee I can't comment,but there is an awful lot of stuff that goes into organizing these races.

Some swimming clubs have huge members, and some have only a handful. A sea race is classed as an extreme sport and it wont go ahead unless the Civil Defense has 3 boats in the sea on a given race day. The Civil Defense give up there weekends because of this (Big thanks to them for this), they do not get paid but each club pay to covers their costs.

So each club big or small has to have cover from the Civil Defense its a part of Health&Safety. Our club in recent years has tried to introduce young kids from their club and other clubs to race a little race on the day. This has grown from strength to strength and other clubs are doing it also.

Each club has to submit a Health&Safety checklist for their clubs race, logistically it can be a nightmare for some clubs. Clubs rely on their members for help on race days, for instance the club you mentioned who gave an introduction to Open Sea Swimming recently is the longest running club, even before the G.A.A was founded. They have huge members in men and women.

Its up to each club whether they were to introduce a beginners course, but as I said a race can only go ahead if the Civil Defense is there with 3 boats plus its their call as to whether a race is a go or not because of weather or it might be weather wise ok in Killiney but they can't launch one of their boats from Malahide so race is cancelled. Also a thing to note some races are run on the tides, some are early in the day and some are in the evening, with that in mind you have the weather to think of, tides, plus light!

As far as the FB page saying about distances, I didn't think it was buried. It was asked today if distances will be posted and within couple of hours someone from Leinster Open swimming posted a reply....As far as wearing a wetsuit, you can wear one but you wont be classed in the prizes if you win or get in top six.

Anyway if you have any more questions or worries and if I can answer them I will....

Btw, in case you were wondering I'm not a member of the Open Sea Committee,

mad m

@pc11

Keep on eye on link below for distances for races....Should be sometime next week....

Link

speedo

Just checked out the new website for open Sea swims (www.leinsteropensea.ie). It is a huge improvement on the old site with plenty of information. This should provide answers and help for a lot of new swimmers interested in competing in the races.
I notice the the open sea page on the old site (swimleinster.com) has not been deleted yet or linked to the new site.

kris71

Speaking from my own experience OW society is a bit of an old school in terms of communication, traditionally you can always ask more experienced club members about details or if you want to be a bit more 21st century each race has a phone number (sometimes even an email) to race organizers and you can feel free to call or email them, I remember calling a lad once asking for directions an hour before race as my gps died and he was extremely helpful. So I wouldn't say they are doing this on purpose, sometimes it's just hard for someone doing it for decades to put himself in the shoes of a beginner. They need your feedback and a bit of time to implement changes, everyone welcomes new people as it helps discipline to growth. Important thing is to let them know what people need both newcomers and those more experience

In terms of short distance introductory races it is a good idea and I'm sure it would be worth an effort that is connected to it, once again share your point of view with them and I'm sure they will do what they can to make it happen. Especially if a few other people will request something like it

Regardless wet suits as mad m said you are allowed to compete in one, you just won't get a price, a lot of hustle in organizing something like that and the truth is most of the people in ow races are not bothered with prizes (seriously you can buy your own toaster) those races are more about participation and having fun (unlike running, cycling, or tri or even pool swimming where competitive aspect is a big thing) However I guarantee you that in a few years they will catch up with initiatives like big splash from uk where wet suits are encouraged and all levels are catered. If they wont then I will anyway but there are private companies getting into it already

P.s. Thanks for the calendar mad m

mad m

New link below to revised Calendar....Distances to follow on the 18th may

Leinster open Sea Calendar 2012

jester1980

I'd love to do a few of these swims but feel i'd die without my wetsuit. Been doing Tri for a year now and only got back swimming for first time last year in 15 years but love the swim the most.

Can swim up to 2 k at moment without any bother but would prob say 200 M without a wetsuit

mad m

jester1980 wrote: »

I'd love to do a few of these swims but feel i'd die without my wetsuit. Been doing Tri for a year now and only got back swimming for first time last year in 15 years but love the swim the most.

Can swim up to 2 k at moment without any bother but would prob say 200 M without a wetsuit

Well I was out in sea Sunday and Monday, Sunday was unreal. It was like swimming in soup, you hit a few cold spots here and there but nothing major. Monday was colder but still great to swim in...