Rotavator or power harrow which is best?

joe17

hi everyone
im thinking of ether getting a power harrow or rotavator in a few months and just wondering which is better. i have a mf 165 so will the power harrow work on my tractor or will the rotavator work aswell.what are the advantages and disadvantages of these machines and what price would i get one of these in good condition at.what should i look out for when i buy one.i need one of these as i am ploughing feilds at the moment so which one should i go with.
thanks in advance

aquila787

The Rotavator will pick up all sorts of dirt like polythene, wire, twine etc. But gives a very nice finish though.

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

hi everyone
im thinking of ether getting a power harrow or rotavator in a few months and just wondering which is better. i have a mf 165 so will the power harrow work on my tractor or will the rotavator work aswell.what are the advantages and disadvantages of these machines and what price would i get one of these in good condition at.what should i look out for when i buy one.i need one of these as i am ploughing feilds at the moment so which one should i go with.
thanks in advance

It all depends what you want it for.
A power harrow works well for reseeding but doesn't go that deep.
A rotavator will go deep and leaves a nice bed for a garden ie potatoes or vegetables.

I would reckon you would need 100hp for a 10ft power harrow minimum so you would would want a 6 or 7 foot one which may not exist.

My father has had rotavators for years. A 135MF runs a 60inch but a 70 inch would kill it.
you would probably be ok with a 70inch.

The only rotavator he would buy is a howard selactatilth. Selactatilth in on the gearbox cover. Make sure main bearings are ok 250 a pop including seals, chain case cover is not cracked or work as they are hard to get, Blades are about a fiver a pop.

A 30 year old howard cost as much as a new chinese import

When you are using the rotavator use bottom gear revved all the way

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

It all depends what you want it for.
A power harrow works well for reseeding but doesn't go that deep.
A rotavator will go deep and leaves a nice bed for a garden ie potatoes or vegetables.

I would reckon you would need 100hp for a 10ft power harrow minimum so you would would want a 6 or 7 foot one which may not exist.

My father has had rotavators for years. A 135MF runs a 60inch but a 70 inch would kill it.
you would probably be ok with a 70inch.

The only rotavator he would buy is a howard selactatilth. Selactatilth in on the gearbox cover. Make sure main bearings are ok 250 a pop including seals, chain case cover is not cracked or work as they are hard to get, Blades are about a fiver a pop.

A 30 year old howard cost as much as a new chinese import

When you are using the rotavator use bottom gear revved all the way

ill be using the ground for grazing.im in the middle of a deal with a guy who might buy my tractor for export to poland for a good bit more than i payed for my tractor which i could use the money to buy a bigger tractor but i dont know wether to sell or not??? i could then buy a good rotavator or power harrow. what should i do any help welcome thanks

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

ill be using the ground for grazing.im in the middle of a deal with a guy who might buy my tractor for export to poland for a good bit more than i payed for my tractor which i could use the money to buy a bigger tractor but i dont know wether to sell or not??? i could then buy a good rotavator or power harrow. what should i do any help welcome thanks

Tractor prices have risen a lot over the past few years due mainly to tractors being exported. Thats why you are getting more for your tractor.
The problem lies when you buy a bigger tractor it is now costing more.
IMO you will get very little in good nick for under 10 grand. A lot of the old stuff is quite simply worn out.If you are willing to spend the money on a good tractor fair play to you.
If i was in the same position with a 100-120hp tractor i would buy a power harrow. Its better for reseeding. It doesn't go as deep, it levels as most have a levelling board built in.
I have used all 3 and came to that opinion.

joe17

i was looking at these tactors which do you think would be good
zetor 8011
Deutz dx8
lamborghini 1106 final price
1394 case
CASE David Brown

would one of these be good or can you show me some thing that would be better
thanks

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

Tractor prices have risen a lot over the past few years due mainly to tractors being exported. Thats why you are getting more for your tractor.
The problem lies when you buy a bigger tractor it is now costing more.
IMO you will get very little in good nick for under 10 grand. A lot of the old stuff is quite simply worn out.If you are willing to spend the money on a good tractor fair play to you.
If i was in the same position with a 100-120hp tractor i would buy a power harrow. Its better for reseeding. It doesn't go as deep, it levels as most have a levelling board built in.
I have used all 3 and came to that opinion.

i might go with the howard rotavator unless i get a bigger tractor then ill have to see add the pros and cons of these machines and come to some decision

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

i was looking at these tactors which do you think would be good
zetor 8011
Deutz dx8
lamborghini 1106 final price
1394 case
CASE David Brown

would one of these be good or can you show me some thing that would be better
thanks

I'm a bit of a zetor/ursus fan so i like the 8011. Perkins conversions were common in them. She looks fairly clean, If you get to know them and their problems, they aren't that bad.

The deutz are liked in cork. There is a dealer round castlelyons direction.
Could be a good machine but i dont really like a machine that has been sprayed up or tarted up but it does look clean. I assume it has a deutz air cooled engine which are fairly ok but if they give trouble they can be difficult to get right. A lot of lads wont go near those engines.

The lamborghini. It has a deutz air cooled engine so i would probably give it a miss. Not many of them around so if it needs parts they could be dear. plus it is a long way up to see a tractor

1394 case is up for 72 days meaning if it aint already sold there is probably a reason it isn't.

1494 case. I dont know that much about Cases. A lot of lads get on well with them. Meant to be light on diesel. Stay away from ones with a hydra shift gearbox.


How about this one
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/2865279
Its been up a while i think due to the fact she is a multipower model, which can be expensive if it gives trouble. but a nice tidy exanple.

or this
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3361920
This looks worth the money but i'm a small bit suspicious. He had a ursus 1014 last year for 5k with engine troubles and no loader in rough condition. So this seems cheap. The 40k box has been known to give trouble.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3343583
This probably wouldnt be any benefit to you as it would only bee a small bit bigger than what you have but is a nice tidy tractor as long as it is not a multipower one

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3317078.
Looks like a genuine tractor . Someone else on DD is looking for around 10k for their 8211.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3259607

joe17

there all well outside my budget even i would love another massey ferguson but i could push it to 5000 if i really liked the tractor but all the good mf are way too dear any other suggestion would be helpful thanks

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

there all well outside my budget even i would love another massey ferguson but i could push it to 5000 if i really liked the tractor but all the good mf are way too dear any other suggestion would be helpful thanks

Someone will probably come along and say you could buy a tw ford or a 8210 for that money but if you blow your budget and something is wrong with the tractor you will have nothing to fix it with.
whereas you 'know ' your own tractor.

That 699 has been up a good while, a cheeky offer for cash could get it. i think they started at 7500 or 8000 when it first went up

FYI i was told there lately enough that a 165 for export should make 2500 euros.

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

I'm a bit of a zetor/ursus fan so i like the 8011. Perkins conversions were common in them. She looks fairly clean, If you get to know them and their problems, they aren't that bad.

The deutz are liked in cork. There is a dealer round castlelyons direction.
Could be a good machine but i dont really like a machine that has been sprayed up or tarted up but it does look clean. I assume it has a deutz air cooled engine which are fairly ok but if they give trouble they can be difficult to get right. A lot of lads wont go near those engines.

The lamborghini. It has a deutz air cooled engine so i would probably give it a miss. Not many of them around so if it needs parts they could be dear. plus it is a long way up to see a tractor

1394 case is up for 72 days meaning if it aint already sold there is probably a reason it isn't.

1494 case. I dont know that much about Cases. A lot of lads get on well with them. Meant to be light on diesel. Stay away from ones with a hydra shift gearbox.


How about this one
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/2865279
Its been up a while i think due to the fact she is a multipower model, which can be expensive if it gives trouble. but a nice tidy exanple.

or this
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3361920
This looks worth the money but i'm a small bit suspicious. He had a ursus 1014 last year for 5k with engine troubles and no loader in rough condition. So this seems cheap. The 40k box has been known to give trouble.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3343583
This probably wouldnt be any benefit to you as it would only bee a small bit bigger than what you have but is a nice tidy tractor as long as it is not a multipower one

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3317078.
Looks like a genuine tractor . Someone else on DD is looking for around 10k for their 8211.

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3259607

is there much problems with the zetor 8011 there is a lamborghini dealer near me so parts might be a bit easier to get dont know much about the other 3 but thanks for the information about the tractors you learn something new every day

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

Someone will probably come along and say you could buy a tw ford or a 8210 for that money but if you blow your budget and something is wrong with the tractor you will have nothing to fix it with.
whereas you 'know ' your own tractor.

That 699 has been up a good while, a cheeky offer for cash could get it. i think they started at 7500 or 8000 when it first went up

FYI i was told there lately enough that a 165 for export should make 2500 euros.

he said it would be between 3000 to 4000 i could get for it i said if i was going to sell it would have to be 4000 and no less hes coming during the week to take a look i see what he says when he comes
im not too sure of ford not a big fan herd a lot of bad things about them

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

is there much problems with the zetor 8011 there is a lamborghini dealer near me so parts might be a bit easier to get dont know much about the other 3 but thanks for the information about the tractors you learn something new every day

That one has a perkins engine 115hp they say. There is no problem putting it into a 8011 . Same back end all up the range so it will take the extra power.
Brakes are dry brakes which can be poor especially if there is an oil leak inside the back axel.
I assume it has a 25k gearbox which is painfully slow on the road but is bullit proof. You could put almost any oil into the back end and they will work away no problems.
They have a lot of filters that you clean as well
On a tractor that has had a lot of heavy work , i have seen the half shaft break on a couple of occasions and the tractor mudguard sits on the wheel.
If you were rough on the gearsticks you could snap them. i had to drive at silage at one stage for a week with a vicegrips for a gearstick.
If you test one the steering should be very free and smooth. if it sticks there can be trouble with the orbital unit.
They are known for oil leaks but that is more poor servicing than anything else.
There is a oil cooler for engine oil which can give up and end up putting water into the engine oil. Just bypass the oil cooler.
The electrics were known for not being great so if you buy one get a master switch fitted.
They were very easy to push start . Three lads pushed a 14145 backwards and she started in reverse for us one day. She weighed 6 ton

They were heavy and so had good traction. They took some amount of abuse and kept going.
I know a man who had an ursus 1014 for 10 years. We reckon it put up over 25000 hours , was boiled several times and just kept going

They were designed to be ripped . You could change a hydraulic pump in 15 minutes.
We did a clutch in under 4 hours one night.

I dont know whether i am putting you off them or not.

there is a 912 here for sale
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3172874
All you should have to do is get a secondhand cab for it

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

he said it would be between 3000 to 4000 i could get for it i said if i was going to sell it would have to be 4000 and no less hes coming during the week to take a look i see what he says when he comes
im not too sure of ford not a big fan herd a lot of bad things about them

If he doesn't come to the price you want , tell him that another exporter has offered more.

Also see what a dealer will give you for it as a trade in

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

That one has a perkins engine 115hp they say. There is no problem putting it into a 8011 . Same back end all up the range so it will take the extra power.
Brakes are dry brakes which can be poor especially if there is an oil leak inside the back axel.
I assume it has a 25k gearbox which is painfully slow on the road but is bullit proof. You could put almost any oil into the back end and they will work away no problems.
They have a lot of filters that you clean as well
On a tractor that has had a lot of heavy work , i have seen the half shaft break on a couple of occasions and the tractor mudguard sits on the wheel.
If you were rough on the gearsticks you could snap them. i had to drive at silage at one stage for a week with a vicegrips for a gearstick.
If you test one the steering should be very free and smooth. if it sticks there can be trouble with the orbital unit.
They are known for oil leaks but that is more poor servicing than anything else.
There is a oil cooler for engine oil which can give up and end up putting water into the engine oil. Just bypass the oil cooler.
The electrics were known for not being great so if you buy one get a master switch fitted.
They were very easy to push start . Three lads pushed a 14145 backwards and she started in reverse for us one day. She weighed 6 ton

They were heavy and so had good traction. They took some amount of abuse and kept going.
I know a man who had an ursus 1014 for 10 years. We reckon it put up over 25000 hours , was boiled several times and just kept going

They were designed to be ripped . You could change a hydraulic pump in 15 minutes.
We did a clutch in under 4 hours one night.

I dont know whether i am putting you off them or not.

there is a 912 here for sale
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/tractors/3172874
All you should have to do is get a secondhand cab for it

i dont know about the zetor now but i suppose its like any tractor something always goes and you get the good and bad tractor
I dont know much about the 912 would prefer something better and cabs arnt that cheap either

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

i dont know about the zetor now but i suppose its like any tractor something always goes and you get the good and bad tractor
I dont know much about the 912 would prefer something better and cabs arnt that cheap either

The 912 is basically a 9111 zetor. Ursus were made under license for zetor so all the above still applys.
A friend of mine sold a back end of a 8011 a few years back with a good cab for 400 euro.

joe17

i did not know that they were license by zetor is it only the 912 or where there others. i might take a look at few of them but open to other types of tractors.thanks

9935452

joe17 wrote: »

i did not know that they were license by zetor is it only the 912 or where there others. i might take a look at few of them but open to other types of tractors.thanks

All the ursus of that time were. 912,914,1012,1014,1222,1224,etc
There were older models as well. 902,904 etc
The last number signified if it was a 2 or 4 wheel drive. The first few numbers the power

joe17

9935452 wrote: »

All the ursus of that time were. 912,914,1012,1014,1222,1224,etc
There were older models as well. 902,904 etc
The last number signified if it was a 2 or 4 wheel drive. The first few numbers the power

that's very helpful thanks

Man of Aran

The first Ursus models that came into Ireland were the 335 (35HP) , the 355 (55HP) and the 385 (85HP). The 385 did exactly resemble the original 8011 Crystal , not sure about the licensing deal though.
Remember back then, both Poland and Czechslovakia were part of the Soviet Union and all was made for the greater good .... I think they all just worked off the same set of drawings given by "HQ".

joe17

i was talking to the fellow who wanted to buy the tractor he was offering too low so i think ill hold on to it do it up during the winter and it should be fine for next year any ideas what would be wrong with the hydraulics any help
thanks

i was looking at the hydraulics last night and i noticed that when i put the lever for the pto down nothing happens but when i put the lever all the way up my lift arms goes up at the way it was before it started acting up and goes ok for a while then its back to its old ways again. i dont want to change the pump as its over 200 euro anybody knows whats wrong with it thanks

joe17

I forgot to say the problem with the hydraulics (one min it says up the next it drops some times it wont go up for a while). When i have the fertilizer spreader on it with about 6 bags in it some times drops but very slow if thats any help thanks

f2

Need help, just bought a howard e series 1V , 5 foot model in need of some TLC, the chain housing is leaking oil and I was told just pack the housing with grease and the problem is solved. I need some blades but the bolts are fine, do I need replace bolts as well. Any idea where I can get new gasket for the rotavator?

9935452

f2 wrote: »

Need help, just bought a howard e series 1V , 5 foot model in need of some TLC, the chain housing is leaking oil and I was told just pack the housing with grease and the problem is solved. I need some blades but the bolts are fine, do I need replace bolts as well. Any idea where I can get new gasket for the rotavator?

Mervyn Shorten in croom used to be a howard dealer so would have a few old new parts floating about , or he might be able to order the parts for you.
if its for the chain case cover i would just clean the surfaces and use a tube os silicon/ tube of gasket maker. Alternatively get gasket paper and make it yourself.
If the bolts look ok, id reuse them but dont just use any bolts in the workshop if you are short a few. they are a special bolt with a high grade.
If you are buying blades make sure you get the correct ones . AFAIK there is two different sizes with slightly different size holes and distance between holes. take an old one with you when buying.

f2

thanks

NuckingFacker

Rotavators have one big drawback - the rotary action of the blades, while producing a lovely looking tilth on the surface, cause a smeared "pan" under the blades as they pass, ruining soil drainage and causing ponding under the surface, so I'd be far more a fan of the power harrow as the stirring action does not compact or pan the soil structure.

9935452

NuckingFacker wrote: »

Rotavators have one big drawback - the rotary action of the blades, while producing a lovely looking tilth on the surface, cause a smeared "pan" under the blades as they pass, ruining soil drainage and causing ponding under the surface, so I'd be far more a fan of the power harrow as the stirring action does not compact or pan the soil structure.

I agree but every machine has its own purpose. A blade rotavator is only for when setting a garden like spuds and vegetables (when you need lots of topsoil) , a power harrow is for reseeding when you dont need a deep cultivation. The jury is out on the spike rotavator.
Ive used both of the above and would not use one for the others job

f2

I am hoping to use the rotavator to level some dry hills in rough ground and seed it to rape and next year powerharrow and reseed to grass

9935452

f2 wrote: »

I am hoping to use the rotavator to level some dry hills in rough ground and seed it to rape and next year powerharrow and reseed to grass

The best way to level rough ground is plough and use a power harrow and landleveller together, the power harrow creating the soil and the landleveller dragging the heights into the hollows levelling everything.
But use what you have. For years the father ploughed , gave the ground a touch of the rotavator and a run of a spring harrow and threw out grass seeds.
If you are using the rotavator for seeding, keep it high, just tickle the ground

John J. Lyons

which is better for baron ground a rotavator with blades or pin type like the Aguator ?

9935452

John J. Lyons wrote: »

which is better for baron ground a rotavator with blades or pin type like the Aguator ?

Before power harrows became popular a lot of lads used spike or pin rotavators for a type of one pass or min till when setting grass seeds.
they just broke the top of the ground to create a skim of soil enough for seeds to take off in.
If there are a lot of weeds/briars/ rushes , the blade rotavator does a good job of chopping these.

i'd say a spike rotavator would be better for baron ground .
The one thing about the rotavators is they dont level the ground. because of how they work , every time you lift them they leave a dip.
If you end up using one , keep going up and down the field in sets parallel, and not round in tighter circles as rounding corners leaves the ground uneven.