Is the 10% Garda rule of thumb a myth?

usrename

My friend told me that Gardaí with the hairdriers (speed cameras) on the road give you 10% leniency, also apparently, the speed on your speedomerter is 10% higer than the speed on teh garda camera ?? Is this true??

So mathematically speaking, the speed limit is 120 (if it says 120 on your speedometer, then it is really 109kph)

SO, to register 120 on the Garda camera, you have to do 132 ...
then to go over the 10% leniency you have to do 10% extra ..so mathematically you have to do 145 kph .... is this so??

Sorry mods if there is a forum on this already, this just tickled my curiosity bone

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ShadowHearth

There is nothing new in 10% in accuracy with speedos. That's why I drive 125/130 on motorways.

Jimbob 83

Nope any extra they let you away with it leeway depending from guard to guard, i would regard anything over 65 in a 62 zone unless overtaking as being the limit w/o taking the piss.

Atomic Pineapple

Your speedometer is likely a small bit out, match it against a sat nav which is much more accurate, in my car when I'm on 120 km/h on the speedo the sat nav reads 116km/h.

There is no official 10% leniency rule when it comes to speed checks so I wouldn't be relying on that.

corktina

many cars speedos are about 10% out but you'd need to check with a GPS device to be sure. This is basically why Gards tend to use a bit of leniancy. They don't have to, so you'd be a fool to build that into the speed you drive at. I always go a little over what my speedo tells me too, unfortunately most people don't and they tend to be in your way

ironclaw

usrename wrote: »

My friend told me that Gardaí with the hairdriers (speed cameras) on the road give you 10% leniency, also apparently, the speed on your speedomerter is 10% higer than the speed on teh garda camera ?? Is this true??

So mathematically speaking, the speed limit is 120 (if it says 120 on your speedometer, then it is really 109kph)

SO, to register 120 on the Garda camera, you have to do 132 ...
then to go over the 10% leniency you have to do 10% extra ..so mathematically you have to do 145 kph .... is this so??

Sorry mods if there is a forum on this already, this just tickled my curiosity bone

DISCUSS
ENLIGHTEN ME
AWAKEN THE BOY RACER WITHIN

Camera DOES NOT EQUAL Garda Laser DOES NOT EQUAL GoSafe Speed Camera Van

Firstly, the Garda laser gun is about +/- 2km/h accurate. So if he reads you at 3km/h over the posted limit he is legally entitled to penalize you for that. That would be the bare minimum for any court challenge. However there is no irish law requirement for him to produce proof the gun was calibrated or even in full working order. So if you were 1km/h over the limit, he'd be able to do you. They don't even have to give you a receipt which is common place on the continent. There is no 'rule of thumb' its down to the individual. Generally, I've heard 5km/h over the posted limit.

Speedo's overhead by differing amounts. Some by a lot, some are bang on. Generally speaking, below 100km/h they are off by about 5% and above 100km/h they are off by 10%.

So if the posted limit is 60km/h. Your speedo will probably be showing about 63 to 65km/h. So YOU know your over. If you drive at 60km/h by your speedo, your probably only doing about 57km/h, so your well below.

At the extreme end of the scale, if the posted limit is 120km/h, your speedo would have to show about 132km/h to be actually doing 120km/h. So you know your well over.

Either way, you know your well over.

As regards camera vans, I've heard its about 5km/h over the posted limit.

KTRIC

Don't know about cars but for bikes there is a thing called a "Speedohealer" , it plugs into the loom and you can change the read out of the speedo. I calibrated mine on my GSX1400 with a GPS and its now bang on

ironclaw

KTRIC wrote: »

Don't know about cars but for bikes there is a thing called a "Speedohealer" , it plugs into the loom and you can change the read out of the speedo. I calibrated mine on my GSX1400 with a GPS and its now bang on

Think you can do that on the CAN bus alright. Never seen one myself. Next best is to get your car dyno'd or calibrated.

CiniO

In most countries penalties for speeding are gradual, so for being say up to 10km/h over the limit fine is very little, 10km/h - 20km/h over the limit it's bigger, and so on.

That's why Police in most countries wouldn't even bother stopping anyone doing 110km/h on 100km/h limit. In some countries there isn't even any fine for speeding up to 10km/h over the limit.

Unfortunately in Ireland fines for speeing is set to 80 euro no matter how much you are over the limit, therefore guards can do you for speeding even if you do 81km/h on 80km/h limit.
They probably usually set a bit higher threshold, but I never heard about 10%.
Also 10% speedo inaccuracy is very general, as one might be 15% over while other only 1%.

usrename

Also, is speeding just speeding in Ireland, or can you be disqualified for doing 200 kph for example.
What constitutes excessive speeding?
What is the punishment for it?

ballsymchugh

are GPS more accurate? i didn't think they'd be able to take in a hill for example. you could be leathering it down a hill but may look normal on the horizontal..

ironclaw

usrename wrote: »

Also, is speeding just speeding in Ireland, or can you be disqualified for doing 200 kph for example.
What constitutes excessive speeding?
What is the punishment for it?

'Dangerous Driving' is the general clause. I think its an immediate and real thread to human life type of scenario. Wasn't there a lad done in Mulligar or something for a very high speed Porche? Clocked close to 180?

Either way you'll end up in front of judge. Probably a hefty fine, not sure they would ban you for a first offense.

are GPS more accurate? i didn't think they'd be able to take in a hill for example. you could be leathering it down a hill but may look normal on the horizontal..

Far more accurate, but like you said on the horizontal. I don't know if they factor in declination or hills. They might. Wouldn't be that hard to do.

fatbastard

There is nothing new in 10% in accuracy with speedos. That's why I drive 125/130 on motorways. Nope any extra they let you away with it leeway depending from guard to guard, i would regard anything over 65 in a 62 zone unless overtaking as being the limit w/o taking the piss. Your speedometer is likely a small bit out, match it against a sat nav which is much more accurate, in my car when I'm on 120 km/h on the speedo the sat nav reads 116km/h. There is no official 10% leniency rule when it comes to speed checks so I wouldn't be relying on that. many cars speedos are about 10% out but you'd need to check with a GPS device to be sure. This is basically why Gards tend to use a bit of leniancy. They don't have to, so you'd be a fool to build that into the speed you drive at. I always go a little over what my speedo tells me too, unfortunately most people don't and they tend to be in your way. Camera DOES NOT EQUAL Garda Laser DOES NOT EQUAL GoSafe Speed Camera Van Firstly, the Garda laser gun is about +/- 2km/h accurate. So if he reads you at 3km/h over the posted limit he is legally entitled to penalize you for that. That would be the bare minimum for any court challenge. However there is no irish law requirement for him to produce proof the gun was calibrated or even in full working order. So if you were 1km/h over the limit, he'd be able to do you. They don't even have to give you a receipt which is common place on the continent. There is no 'rule of thumb' its down to the individual. Generally, I've heard 5km/h over the posted limit. Speedo's overhead by differing amounts. Some by a lot, some are bang on. Generally speaking, below 100km/h they are off by about 5% and above 100km/h they are off by 10%.So if the posted limit is 60km/h. Your speedo will probably be showing about 63 to 65km/h. So YOU know your over. If you drive at 60km/h by your speedo, your probably only doing about 57km/h, so your well below.
At the extreme end of the scale, if the posted limit is 120km/h, your speedo would have to show about 132km/h to be actually doing 120km/h. So you know your well over. Either way, you know your well over. As regards camera vans, I've heard its about 5km/h over the posted limit. Don't know about cars but for bikes there is a thing called a "Speedohealer" , it plugs into the loom and you can change the read out of the speedo. I calibrated mine on my GSX1400 with a GPS and its now bang on. Think you can do that on the CAN bus alright. Never seen one myself. Next best is to get your car dyno'd or calibrated. In most countries penalties for speeding are gradual, so for being say up to 10km/h over the limit fine is very little, 10km/h - 20km/h over the limit it's bigger, and so on. That's why Police in most countries wouldn't even bother stopping anyone doing 110km/h on 100km/h limit. In some countries there isn't even any fine for speeding up to 10km/h over the limit. Unfortunately in Ireland fines for speeing is set to 80 euro no matter how much you are over the limit, therefore guards can do you for speeding even if you do 81km/h on 80km/h limit.They probably usually set a bit higher threshold, but I never heard about 10%. Also 10% speedo inaccuracy is very general, as one might be 15% over while other only 1%. Also, is speeding just speeding in Ireland, or can you be disqualified for doing 200 kph for example. What constitutes excessive speeding?
What is the punishment for it? are GPS more accurate? i didn't think they'd be able to take in a hill for example. you could be leathering it down a hill but may look normal on the horizontal.. 'Dangerous Driving' is the general clause. I think its an immediate and real threat to human life type of scenario. Wasn't there a lad done in Mulligar or something for a very high speed Porche? Clocked close to 180? Either way you'll end up in front of judge. Probably a hefty fine, not sure they would ban you for a first offense. Far more accurate, but like you said on the horizontal. I don't know if they factor in declination or hills. They might. Wouldn't be that hard to do.

Indricotherium

corktina wrote: »

many cars speedos are about 10% out but you'd need to check with a GPS device to be sure. This is basically why Gards tend to use a bit of leniancy. They don't have to, so you'd be a fool to build that into the speed you drive at. I always go a little over what my speedo tells me too, unfortunately most people don't and they tend to be in your way

Why does everyone go with the satnav, rather than the speedo..... any satnav I've seen in a car has the car flying all over the place and milling around fields every now and then.

It baffles me that people are willing to 100% trust the satnav ratherthan the speedo, just because it is the speed that suits them.

I'm well aware that differences in tyre wear and the like will have an effect on the speedo reader, but the 100% blind trust people put into satnav is mental.

seamus

Indricotherium wrote: »

Why does everyone go with the satnav, rather than the speedo..... any satnav I've seen in a car has the car flying all over the place and milling around fields every now and then.

You should probably buy a new satnav if that's your experience

It baffles me that people are willing to 100% trust the satnav ratherthan the speedo, just because it is the speed that suits them.

Because satnavs give more exact readings than a needle on a dial.

I've a digital speedo in the car, and it usually matches the satnav up till about 60km/h, at which point they start to diverge. By 120km/h, the different is about 5km/h.

The assumption of the satnav being correct is probably down to the 10% myth. However considering that your car's speedometer is calibrated at a specific speed for specific conditions, whereas the satnav is measuring based on your position at a given point in time, it seems more likely that a satnav would be more accurate.

However, there is also a fair argument that the faster you go, the greater the margin for error in a satnav (since it's taking a reading at set time intervals, and your distance between intervals is increasing), so there's no reason to assume that a sat nav is bang on either.
I don't think this pans out either though - the measurement taken by a satnav with a full lock, has a fairly exact margin for error, e.g. +/- 2m, regardless of how fast you're going. So in fact as you go faster, the satnav gets more accurate, relatively speaking.

CiniO

Indricotherium wrote: »

Why does everyone go with the satnav, rather than the speedo..... any satnav I've seen in a car has the car flying all over the place and milling around fields every now and then.

I trust satnav more, because it's accurate.
There is a little radar displaying your current speed not far from place I live.
When this shows 60km/h speedo in my car shows 64km/h. In other car it shows 66km/h. Another one shows 73km/h. However satnav shows 60km/h.
Also any vehicle equipped with calibrated tachograph shows 60km/h on the tachograph (I've tried at least 5 different vehicles and always the same result).
That makes me believe, that mentioned radar, as well as satnav as well as calibrated tachographs showing 60km/h are correct, while all speedos on different vehicles aren't.

But I tried only one satnav as I only have one. I don't know if all of them would be correct.

The same satnav showed about 209km/h while me speedo was showing 245km/h.
That's another reason to believe satnav not the speedo, as my vehicle top speed according to manufacturer is 210km/h.

CiniO

usrename wrote: »

Also, is speeding just speeding in Ireland, or can you be disqualified for doing 200 kph for example.
What constitutes excessive speeding?
What is the punishment for it?

I believe it's up to a guard to decide if it was speeding or dangerous driving.
Reasonable guard should do you for dangerous driving if you were doing 50km/h in 20km/h limit housing estate full of running and playing kids (30km/h over), while he should fine you for speeding if you were doing 200km/h on an empty motorway. (80km/h over the limit)
But I'm not sure if all guards are reasonable.

seamus

CiniO wrote: »

I believe it's up to a guard to decide if it was speeding or dangerous driving.

Yep, pretty much. There's careless driving, which is driving in a manner likely to cause inconvenience to other road users- so this is stuff like failure to indicate a turn, blocking a cycle lane while queuing, etc. Dangerous driving then is the next step above which is driving in a manner that is likely to pose a danger to yourself or other road users (including actually injuring someone). So excessive speed could be easily classified under a dangerous driving charge.

You also wouldn't necessarily have to be speeding to be charged with dangerous driving. Doing 100km/h on a motorway in thick fog could be considered dangerous driving.

Wetbench4

In my car(s40), I use obd bluetooth connector and the torque app on my phone. It shows a realtime readout of the actual speed of the car and the gps speed. When I'm doing 120 on the cars speed dial, i'm doing about 116 on the actual speed. The gps is usually close to the actual speed but is never precise, and always a bit behind. So i think its a bit less than 10%, on my car anyway.

CiniO

seamus wrote: »

Yep, pretty much. There's careless driving, which is driving in a manner likely to cause inconvenience to other road users- so this is stuff like failure to indicate a turn, blocking a cycle lane while queuing, etc. Dangerous driving then is the next step above which is driving in a manner that is likely to pose a danger to yourself or other road users (including actually injuring someone). So excessive speed could be easily classified under a dangerous driving charge.

You also wouldn't necessarily have to be speeding to be charged with dangerous driving. Doing 100km/h on a motorway in thick fog could be considered dangerous driving.

Could doing 100km/h in thick fog on motorway be classified as speeding?
While one is not over speed limit, there is a legislation requiring to drive at speed at which driver must be able to stop within distance of road he can see to be clear. Doing 100km/h in thick fog is definitely above that, so it's doing speed greater than allowed by law. Could therefore this be considered as speeding?

seamus

CiniO wrote: »

Could doing 100km/h in thick fog on motorway be classified as speeding?

Nope. Speeding in itself is defined as driving in excess of the posted speed limit, it's not related to the requirement to drive at a speed which enables you to stop...etc.

djimi

Bottom line is drive your speedo and you wont have problems with the Gardai; try to second guess it by using anything else and you leave yourself open to a possible speeding ticket.

Brabus

I got caught doin 90km/h while towing a trailer in a 100km/h zone. The limit for towing a trailer is 80km/h which i didn't know at the time.:o
Got the two penalty points & €80 fine which i paid.

So to sum up, I was marginally above the 10% allowance and it was enough to get done for speeding.:(

LLU

Indricotherium wrote: »

Why does everyone go with the satnav, rather than the speedo..... any satnav I've seen in a car has the car flying all over the place and milling around fields every now and then.

It baffles me that people are willing to 100% trust the satnav ratherthan the speedo, just because it is the speed that suits them.

I'm well aware that differences in tyre wear and the like will have an effect on the speedo reader, but the 100% blind trust people put into satnav is mental.

Satnav technology is inherently based on highly accurate timings; it's basically able to measure how long a radio wave takes to travel from here to, say, a point a few metres away. This is the information which is used to figure out where you are. Speed is a function of position and time, so provided it's displaying your position reasonably accurately you can be fairly sure it is also giving you an accurate speed reading.

That's not to say you should trust it 100% though. Nothing is 100% reliable. It's up to you to make a sensible decision based on the information available to you, of which the satnav is just one part.

Fighting Irish

Can speed cameras see in foggy conditions?

Gerty

Just drive at the feckin' speed limit and you want have to do mathematics in your head silly sausage.

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