Question about submission holds

stealinhorses

Hey guys, I've been watching wrestling sporadically for the past couple of years and I kinda got into it more lately.
I'm not too unfamiliar with how everything usually works, but as I was watching the Kurt Angle - HBK match from Wrestlemania 21 the other day, it got me thinking, so hopefully this won't sound stupid :P.

At the end of that match, Angle holds the ankle lock on Michaels for quite a long time before he taps. Now, if anyone has ever been in a toe-hold of that sort they know that you feel like tapping immediately when the hold is applied.

In a wrestling match like that, when Angle locks it in he obviously doesn't crank it up hard, but I wondered how much that would actually hurt? As in, because of how long Michaels took to tap out, was that all down to his performance and psychology of not wanting to tap at Mania, or did Angle give him the sign that now's the time to give up by cranking it up so that it would actually hurt and HBK would tap?

Similarly at WM 20, HHH stays in Benoit's crossface for a good bit, so was it completely his decision of when to tap or did Benoit crank his neck/shoulder a bit harder at that moment so that Hunter couldn't actually last any longer?

TL;DR - do people in submissions tap out of their own accord, or do they fight through a certain amount of pain until they can't go on any longer?

jaykhunter

The length of time a hold is in before someone taps denotes how high up on the totem pole they are (i.e. kayfabe-wise main eventers can withstand more punishment and pain than the rest) and also the length applied is all theatrics and working the crowd, getting them emotionally involved. It's all selling.

The submission moves do hurt a bit (well, not Cena's STF, that's useless) but nowhere near the amount the wrestlers selling. Stuff like Bret's Sharpshooter does hurt because it's applied correctly (although he doesn't crank it) but for instance, the figure four would hurt the same, you can't pull it because of the way the legs are placed.

Grab a buddy and try em out for yourself!

*pwboards is not liable for any injuries resulting from jaykhunter's crazy schemes :pac:

sockmo

Its just for dramatic effect....to make it entertaining ..there are a a bucketload of things in pro wrestling that happen all the time that are totally not realistic and performed purely for theatrics. One example that comes to mind is when your opponent is on the apron holding the ropes, you bring him into the ring by holding the ropes too and pulling them towards you sending the guy front flipping into the ring..doesnt make sense in terms of physics but hey! it works for dramatic effect so we dont mind!

stealinhorses

Cool, cool, thanks for answering.

Yeah, I would imagine the Sharpshooter would hurt no matter what, as would the Walls of Jericho and some other submissions targeting the back/legs.

The Rock "passing out" in Cena's STF at Wrestlemania last month was so bad, I could barely watch it. You could probably fit another person's head in between Cena's arms and Rock's neck.

Also, are there any submissions that are banned in pro wrestling? As in, not rules-wise in the ring, but generally because they are dangerous if someone gets an angle wrong or pulls too hard by accident (e.g., heel hook)?

jaykhunter

I can't think of any banned submissions for that reason; just the Crossface because of it's obvious association. Although HHH and HBK did break it out in 2007...

Submissions in general are unpopular as most wrestlers aren't mat technicians (unlike Bryan & Punk) and in general WWE don't like submissions. I'm fairly sure I read some agent was trying hard to get Punk to drop the Anaconda Vice...despite it making perfect sense why a smaller guy would have a submission.... It's probably because WWE just see "oh this guy is weak, he tapped out" rather than "he was caught and is tapping out to prevent further injury".

DEFTLEFTHAND

Over Christmas during a drunken night at my house my friends and I decided to have a tap out contest by applying all forms of submission holds to each other.:o The two that stick out are the boston crab which is excruciating on the lower back and the cross face which when cranked full on is hellacious, you can feel the heat searing at the back of your neck and your eyesight starts to fail after a while, dangerous move in my opinion, you should never apply holds that your not versed in whilst inebriated.:D

GTR63

Sharpshooter & Figure four hurt like hell if applied with pressure.

GTR63

GTR63 wrote: »

Sharpshooter & Figure four hurt like hell if applied with pressure.

Figure 4 is a bastard. Mate did it to me then let me do it to him but reversed it. :pac:

Insect Overlord

I still get flash-backs to my brother locking the Camel Clutch on me when I was a kid.
The fucker is younger than me too!

It's one that probably would make you pass out if you were stuck in it for too long.

rovert

Guessing stealinhorses didnt have a brother or sister growing up :P

CMpunked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E8hcoVe6B0

Charisteas

CMpunked wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

The Attitude Era 'Dont Try This At Home' promos were epic, including this one which never made it onto TV for some reason -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GJaIPBrOo0

gerrybbadd

Any move applied to joints are bastards too, like arm bars, or Lesnar's Kimora.

The Regal Stretch (or roll in WCW) is pretty painful too!

BunShopVoyeur

stealinhorses wrote: »

do people in submissions tap out of their own accord, or do they fight through a certain amount of pain until they can't go on any longer?

Brace yourself OP...........it's not real. Why would he need to tap immediately?

jaykhunter

BunShopVoyeur wrote: »

Brace yourself OP...........it's not real. Why would he need to tap immediately?