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thoughts on purebred dogs and cats?
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02-05-2012 10:25pm#1personally, i'm against it! i think if somebody wants a dog or a cat, they should go to a shelter and take one that has no home, or lost their home, rather than spending 3 or 400 quid on a "pretty" one.
when i was younger we had an old english sheepdog, while being an absolutely stunning dog, she was wild, and a bit stupid. so we had to give her away to a farm cos of her energy (sounds so bad but my parents SWEAR this is the truth, even to this day
). We never got attached to her, and i wasnt too bothered when she was leaving.
But when she left, we got a new dog from the animal welfare. she looked pretty funny, short little legs, a long body of a bassett hound, but the face of a (regular?) sheepdog. people have said she looked like a table.
she was a year old when we got her, easy to train, very good with us kids, extremely loyal. she was as quiet as a mouse in the corner in the shelter and thats why my mother picked her, cos she looked so sad. as soon as she was in the car coming home, she was full of barks, licking us all over, happy as can be. she lived to the ripe old age of 18! she only passed last summer, and still get teary eyed thinking about her.
to be honest, i dont know an awful lot about purebreeding. i'm aware that they dont live as long, are prone to diseases like cancer etc moreso than mongrels. they aren't as smart as mongrels, or as mild tempered... my facts could be all wrong, but i'd love to hear anyone elses experiences with purebred dogs, (or cats!)
id also love to hear who thinks its right or wrong, or if you have any info that might change my mind a bit
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Is this a rescue vs breeder thread or a pedigree vs mongrel thread because there is a huge difference? There are literally thousands of pedigree dogs in rescues. And cats and dogs again are completely different. There are vast differences between different breeds or types of dogs which is the whole point of why people opt for different dogs. Your family seem to have made a massive error in judgement with your OES, because basicly they have a set list of needs and traits and basic research into the breed should have shown that they were not suited to your family's circumstances. The usual heath problems that occur within various breeds are well documented and I know the problems that may occur with both my dogs, have researched them to death and could easily spot the onset of common problems that exist within both breeds. I know that my pup shouldn't be allowed climb stairs or jump up on furniture while he is still growing as it could lead to problems with his knees later on in life. These are the benefits of knowing what you are getting. They both have been bred for specific functions, have specific instincts and traits that are prominent and I went in well equipped with all the information I need to ensure I can provide the necessary care to satisfy all their needs. Neither of my dogs will be looking for new homes at any stage during their lives as a result.
I can trace my pups ancestry back to the formation of the breed and records exist from before the breed was recognised by the kennel clubs. I got to meet several generations of his immediate family, have ongoing support for his life from the people who bred him, and full health records are available for his family line. If I tried hard enough I could probably estimate what his lifespan would be from his ancestry.
You don't get all of what's contained in the above paragraph for €300 or €400 though, what you get for that price is an animal that is poorly bred by a person with probably no knowledge of what they doing sticking two dogs together so they can make a few quid selling puppies as a sideline, possibly riddled with heath problems. So if the question is are mongrels healthier than pedigree dogs, the answer is - it depends entirely on whom the dogs parents are, what breed/breeds are involved etc. in both cases. Your average total mixed breed mongrel will be healthier than a poorly bred pedigree of questionable origin. Then there's the deliberately, poorly and intensively bred flavour of the month cross-breed - I would imagine there is not much difference between these and your average poorly bred pedigree. What I can say with certainty is the best guarantee of health can be found in a pedigree dog sourced in the way I sourced my pup, from well documented, heath-tested lines deliberately bred for function and longevity by people who actually know what they are doing.
As far as intelligence goes, again it comes down to having some basic understanding of the genetic make-up of your particular dog. With pedigree dogs what drives and motivates them varies between breeds (and crosses) and the information needed to figure out what might work best is freely and widely available. 'Intelligence' is usually used to describe how trainable a dog is and herding dogs are supposedly the most intelligent. I would dispute this as personally I think these are two completely different things. My terrier is extremely untrainable but knows a wide range of commands, from sit to crawl, to dance and turn left and right, easier when you know what motivates her. She has taught me to let the pup out of his crate by pulling toys out of the toybox and messing about beside his crate so he gets wound up and jumps up and down bashing his head of the top of the crate so I would question who the most intelligent is between her and me. So I'd give her 2 out of 10 for trainability because she's ruddy hard work and and 11 out of 10 for intelligence
Cats are a whole different story as there is no real marked difference in their basic behaviour, instincts and mannerisms across different breeds as far as I know, but I've never had a pedigree cat so can't comment much on that front.
As I kid, I grew up on one of those farms that people gave their unwanted 'problem' pets to. In most cases they were gifted to us in the middle of the night without our knowledge. Not one of them was a problem to us, none of them were stupid or wild or aggressive they were all either misunderstood, mistreated, abused, under exercised or in one case brain-damaged - most likely as the result of being hit by a car. None of them was an OES though 0 -
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A lot of wild statements there,every dog is genetically different and whether you pay over the odds for a pup is no guarantee that they will lead an uncomplicated healthy life.adrenalinjunkie wrote: »Is this a rescue vs breeder thread or a pedigree vs mongrel thread because there is a huge difference? There are literally thousands of pedigree dogs in rescues. And cats and dogs again are completely different. There are vast differences between different breeds or types of dogs which is the whole point of why people opt for different dogs. Your family seem to have made a massive error in judgement with your OES, because basicly they have a set list of needs and traits and basic research into the breed shown have shown that they were not suited to your families circumstance. The usual heath problems that occur within various breeds are well documented and I know the problems that may occur with both my dogs, have researched them to death and could easily spot the onset of common problems that exist within both breeds. I know that my pup shouldn't be allowed climb stairs or jump up on furniture while he is still growing as it could lead to problems with his knees later on in life. These are the benefits of knowing what you are getting. They both have been bred for specific functions, have specific instincts and traits that are prominent and I went in well equipped with all the information I need to ensure I can provide the necessary care to satisfy all their needs. Neither of my dogs will be looking for new homes at any stage during their lives as a result.
I can trace my pups ancestry back to the formation of the breed and records exist from before the breed was recognised-be by the kennel clubs. I got to meet several generations of his immediate family, have ongoing support for his life from the people who bred him, and full health records are available for his family line. If I tried hard enough I could probably estimate what his lifespan would be from his ancestry.
You don't get all of what's contained in the above paragraph for €300 or €400 though, what you get for that price is an animal that is poorly bred by a person with probably no knowledge of what they doing sticking two dogs together so they can make a few quid selling puppies as a sideline, possibly riddled with heath problems. So if the question is are mongrels healthier than pedigree dogs, the answer is - it depends entirely on whom the dogs parents are, what breed/breeds are involved etc. in both cases. Your average total mixed breed mongrel will be healthier than a poorly bred pedigree of questionable origin. Then there's the deliberately, poorly and intensively bred flavour of the month cross-breed - I would imagine there is not much difference between these and your average poorly bred pedigree. What I can say with certainty is the best guarantee of health can be found in a pedigree dog sourced in the way I sourced my pup, from well documented, heath-tested lines deliberately bred for function and longevity by people who actually know what they are doing.
As far as intelligence goes, again it comes down to having some basic understanding of the genetic makeup of your particular dog. With pedigree dogs what drives and motivates them varies between breeds (and crosses) and the information needed to figure out what might work best is freely and widely available. 'Intelligence' is usually used to describe how trainable a dog is and herding dogs are supposedly the most intelligent. I would dispute this as personally I think these are two completely different things. My terrier is extremely untrainable but knows a wide range of commands, from sit to crawl, to dance and turn left and right, easier when you know what motivates her. She has taught me to let the pup out of his crate by pulling toys out of the toybox and messing about beside his crate so he gets wound up and jumps up and down bashing his head of the top of the crate so I would question who the most intelligent is between her and me. So I'd give her 2 out of 10 for trainability because she's ruddy hard work and and 11 out of 10 for intelligence
Cats are a whole different story as there is no real marked difference in their basic behaviour, instincts and mannerisms across different breeds as far as I know, but I've never had a pedigree cat so can't comment much on that front.
As I kid, I grew up on one of those farms that people gave their unwanted 'problem' pets to. In most cases they were gifted to us in the middle of the night without our knowledge. Not one of them was a problem to us, none of them were stupid or wild or aggressive they were all either misunderstood, mistreated, abused, under exercised or in one case brain-damaged - most likely as the result of being hit by a car. None of them was OES though0 -
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OP, you do realise that you can get pedigree dogs (don't know enough about cats to comment) from shelters? There are breed specific welfare organisations, and unfortunately a lot of pedigree dogs end up in general welfares as well.
So, by your way of thinking, you would like to see no breeders, people who spend time and money, researching dogs, choosing correct dogs to put together, doing health tests etc. The only dogs we would have would be 'accidental' matings between dogs that the new pup's owners would know nothing about? Personally I would rather that we actually only had responsible breeders doing all the right things, and no more cross bred 'accidents'. I am not against crossbreeds at all, but if we're talking about welfare and health issues, then surely it is best to do things properly? Until I got my first PB siberian husky 7 years ago, I and my family had always had crossbreeds, usually friends or neighbours who's dogs had accidentally mated, although I had also had some rescue dogs.
Obviously there are irresponsible people breeding pedigree dogs, including 'champion' showdogs, and they should be stopped. But you can't judge a whole section of people by the actions of some. No reason at all why you shouldn't buy a pedigree dog if thats what you want, as long as you do your research, and take your time, and aren't swayed by fancy pieces of paper and long titles. 0 -
yellowlabrador wrote: »I would be very weary of getting a 'pedigree' dog, although I have several working dogs. These dogs are 'pedigree', and are great at their job, they'd fail miserably in the showring though. Working labradors look so different from the show type that you'd nearly believe they were a different breed.
I agree with you that some working breeds have two different types - working and showing, which is very, very sad. I don't believe that any dog from a working breed should be allowed to be a champion until it has proved itself in the ring and in its field of work. Don't want to pick on the labs, but put most of the show labs out in a field and ask them to do a days work, they won't be able to, so how on earth are they great examples of the breed?
However, as you say, you have pedigree, working dogs, so I imagine that the breeders you bought from had done their research, and put dogs together that they really wanted, to get another great working litter. I think the issue of pedigree against show dogs is a different issue to the one being discussed here. If I wanted to buy another siberian husky I wouldn't buy from Eire, I would go to a particular breeder in Northern Ireland, or go over to England or Scotland, as I would want a working type, who probably wouldn't do well in the show ring here, but would be great out on the trails.:)0 -
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in fairness, i wouldnt say im "against" them... not after reading the posts here espescially.as i said, i know extremely little about pedigree dogs, and all i have really heard about is these cruel illegal puppy farms that you hear about, and thats where my opinion originally came from. and id say everyone is against those!
at the end of the day, i see its a personal choice, but personally, id be geared more towards a rescue dog. not that i would judge anyone who would get a pedigree, not at all.
it all boils down to the owner! 0 -
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adrenalinjunkie wrote: »Is this a rescue vs breeder thread or a pedigree vs mongrel thread because there is a huge difference? There are literally thousands of pedigree dogs in rescues. And cats and dogs again are completely different. There are vast differences between different breeds or types of dogs which is the whole point of why people opt for different dogs. Your family seem to have made a massive error in judgement with your OES, because basicly they have a set list of needs and traits and basic research into the breed should have shown that they were not suited to your family's circumstances. The usual heath problems that occur within various breeds are well documented and I know the problems that may occur with both my dogs, have researched them to death and could easily spot the onset of common problems that exist within both breeds. I know that my pup shouldn't be allowed climb stairs or jump up on furniture while he is still growing as it could lead to problems with his knees later on in life. These are the benefits of knowing what you are getting. They both have been bred for specific functions, have specific instincts and traits that are prominent and I went in well equipped with all the information I need to ensure I can provide the necessary care to satisfy all their needs. Neither of my dogs will be looking for new homes at any stage during their lives as a result.
I can trace my pups ancestry back to the formation of the breed and records exist from before the breed was recognised by the kennel clubs. I got to meet several generations of his immediate family, have ongoing support for his life from the people who bred him, and full health records are available for his family line. If I tried hard enough I could probably estimate what his lifespan would be from his ancestry.
You don't get all of what's contained in the above paragraph for €300 or €400 though, what you get for that price is an animal that is poorly bred by a person with probably no knowledge of what they doing sticking two dogs together so they can make a few quid selling puppies as a sideline, possibly riddled with heath problems. So if the question is are mongrels healthier than pedigree dogs, the answer is - it depends entirely on whom the dogs parents are, what breed/breeds are involved etc. in both cases. Your average total mixed breed mongrel will be healthier than a poorly bred pedigree of questionable origin. Then there's the deliberately, poorly and intensively bred flavour of the month cross-breed - I would imagine there is not much difference between these and your average poorly bred pedigree. What I can say with certainty is the best guarantee of health can be found in a pedigree dog sourced in the way I sourced my pup, from well documented, heath-tested lines deliberately bred for function and longevity by people who actually know what they are doing.
As far as intelligence goes, again it comes down to having some basic understanding of the genetic make-up of your particular dog. With pedigree dogs what drives and motivates them varies between breeds (and crosses) and the information needed to figure out what might work best is freely and widely available. 'Intelligence' is usually used to describe how trainable a dog is and herding dogs are supposedly the most intelligent. I would dispute this as personally I think these are two completely different things. My terrier is extremely untrainable but knows a wide range of commands, from sit to crawl, to dance and turn left and right, easier when you know what motivates her. She has taught me to let the pup out of his crate by pulling toys out of the toybox and messing about beside his crate so he gets wound up and jumps up and down bashing his head of the top of the crate so I would question who the most intelligent is between her and me. So I'd give her 2 out of 10 for trainability because she's ruddy hard work and and 11 out of 10 for intelligence
Cats are a whole different story as there is no real marked difference in their basic behaviour, instincts and mannerisms across different breeds as far as I know, but I've never had a pedigree cat so can't comment much on that front.
As I kid, I grew up on one of those farms that people gave their unwanted 'problem' pets to. In most cases they were gifted to us in the middle of the night without our knowledge. Not one of them was a problem to us, none of them were stupid or wild or aggressive they were all either misunderstood, mistreated, abused, under exercised or in one case brain-damaged - most likely as the result of being hit by a car. None of them was an OES though
See bold.
Different cat breeds do have as much difference in traits as dogs. Ask any Siamese breeder/owner.. they are like no other cat. I bred Siamese for many years and miss them sorely, BUT all cats here now are rescues because of the needs. I find rescue cats have an utter charm of their own and are as close to me as the dogs if not more so.
Siamese are the intelligentsia and athletes of the cat world and infinitely trainable. Cleverer than dogs in many ways. They are people cats. But then so are these two sibling rescues.0 -
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I agree with you that some working breeds have two different types - working and showing, which is very, very sad. I don't believe that any dog from a working breed should be allowed to be a champion until it has proved itself in the ring and in its field of work. Don't want to pick on the labs, but put most of the show labs out in a field and ask them to do a days work, they won't be able to, so how on earth are they great examples of the breed?
However, as you say, you have pedigree, working dogs, so I imagine that the breeders you bought from had done their research, and put dogs together that they really wanted, to get another great working litter. I think the issue of pedigree against show dogs is a different issue to the one being discussed here. If I wanted to buy another siberian husky I wouldn't buy from Eire, I would go to a particular breeder in Northern Ireland, or go over to England or Scotland, as I would want a working type, who probably wouldn't do well in the show ring here, but would be great out on the trails.:)
We do the breeding ourselves and are at generation no 4. We only breed a bitch once, as a replacement dog and the other dogs in the litter go to people who want a working dog. careful thought is given to the father, and the owners are also looking to get a replacement. Money is not important and definitely not a priority. We also leave the registering of the pups to the new owners. Quite a few are not interested, they are not planning to breed themselves. We only have a litter every 5 years.
I think it's immoral to have dog shows, where eugenics are used to decide how 'true' a pedigree dog is. look at farming, I'm sure farmers have seen what happens when you breed cattle according to certain traits. We can cause a lot of suffering.0 -
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You come accross as awfully shallow,would you use the same logic for children.
If my dog has a condition I will deal with it and give him the best treatment but I wouldn't turn down a dog because I heard they night inherit a condition or might not.
Anyway there seems to be no reasoning with you so I'm done here.
Why are you bringing children into this? Its a discussion about dogs and cats
The point thats being made is that if the parents are tested for the known genetic issues in the breed and show that they have those health issues, then you don't use them for breeding. Its to try and cut down the number of animals who will suffer from those conditions. I don't think its fair to breed pups that could well suffer from very painful illnesses/conditions when it is possible to cut the odds considerably.
I must be shallow as well, if I consider genetic health testing essential for responsible breeding. Or maybe I think its actually caring, trying to ensure dogs aren't born to a life of pain. Obviously not all things can be prevented, and yes, I would and have dealt with animals who have been ill and/or hurt but if you could prevent an animal being born with a painful and debilitating condition, why would you not do that?0 -
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