Naturalisation Residency Calculator

bedek

Hi,

I'm will be shortly applying for Irish citizenship and have question in relation to "Naturalisation Residency Calculator".

Accordring to Form 8 on page 6 there is information:

"A RESIDENCY CALCULATOR IS PROVIDED ON THE CITIZENSHIP SECTION AT [url]HTTP://WWW.INIS.GOV.IE[/url] AS
A GUIDE TO ASSIST YOU IN CHECKING IF YOU SATISFY THE STATUTORY CONDITIONS FOR RESIDENCY.
YOU SHOULD ENTER YOUR PERMISSIONS AS EVIDENCED IN YOUR PASSPORT AND VERIFY THAT YOU
SATISFY RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS.
PLEASE PRINT A COPY OF THE REPORT AND INCLUDE IT WITH YOUR APPLICATION"

I'm from Poland which is part of European Union so I don't use passport to cross the border as result and I don't have any permission (stamps) in the my passport required on the calculator page.

There is also point in INIS FAQ - Q. How is my period of residency calculated ? saying that:
...Permission to remain in the State, evidenced by the Garda National Immigration Bureau placing a permission stamp...

And again this is quite an issue for anyone from European Union as I've contacted with Garda and I was told that they do not provide any stamps for people from European Union.

Is there anyone from European Union country who have experience with applying for citizenship and could answer my questions - if people from European Union have to have print out from "Naturalisation Residency Calculator" at all ?


Additionally as there very difficult to contact with INIS in relation to Citizenship queries (I know that there is phone number on the page) - do you know email address to contact them ?

PS
Please I would not like to start discussion why to apply for citizenship and if it is possible at all.
Just to clear these points up front it is possible to have 2 passports and 2 EU citizenships - I've answers from Polish embassy and INIS.

Fratton Fred

I can't help I'm afraid, but do you mind me asking why you want to be an Irish citizen?

Other than voting rights, does it offer you more rights than you would get as an eu citizen?

dermot_sheehan

Utility Bills etc are used to prove residence for an EU citizen.

strandroad

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I can't help I'm afraid, but do you mind me asking why you want to be an Irish citizen?

Other than voting rights, does it offer you more rights than you would get as an eu citizen?

To my knowledge not really. Voting rights are one benefit, and obtaining some travel visas may be easier; e.g. Polish citizens need to apply for a visa to go to US even for a short visit or tourist break. Also, Poland allows dual citizenship so it's not like you need to give up your passport. It's a logical step if you see your future in Ireland.

bedek

dermot_sheehan wrote: »

Utility Bills etc are used to prove residence for an EU citizen.

Ok, so in this case point 7 in INIS FAQ saying:

...procedure employed to determine an applicants residency, in the processing of Citizenship applications, is a thorough examination of GNIB residency stamps...Work permits, letters from employers, or other Departmental letters are not in themselves evidence of having remained in the State....

do NOT apply to EU citizens ?

bedek

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I can't help I'm afraid, but do you mind me asking why you want to be an Irish citizen?

Other than voting rights, does it offer you more rights than you would get as an eu citizen?

Currently the main difference is voting right - after almost 6 years being in Republic I would like to have right to decide (or at least influence) how my taxes are spend.

Additionally I will have easier access to visas - but this is not my reason as I'm not planning to leave but will be able to travel as tourist easier.

Also as I've found on the other forum (if you want I can find the link) being citizen allows me in some cases for free (or less expensive) education on the some universities (not planning but might be useful from my feature children).

And probably the most important issue of having citizenship is not related with current situation but the future of European Union, as you can see on political arena times are very uncertain, crisis is deepening in most of the EU countries which subsequently might lead to the protectionism of local work market. In this respect having Irish citizenship might be helpful in Ireland and in case if I will be forced to move out because of economical reasons - also in other EU countries.

I wouldn't like to start political or any other type of discussion, the reason why I started this thread is to get clear information about Naturalization Calculator report in Form 8 for EU citizens but I felt obliged to answer your questions.

recedite

bedek wrote: »

...procedure employed to determine an applicants residency, in the processing of Citizenship applications, is a thorough examination of GNIB residency stamps...Work permits, letters from employers, or other Departmental letters are not in themselves evidence of having remained in the State....

do NOT apply to EU citizens ?

If I was you, I'd collect up whatever I had; letters from employers, an old bank statement with name and address, rent or mortgage documents, old utility bills.
Don't worry, if they want more they will ask for it.

bedek

Finally I've received email address in relation to the immigration queries and I will send my questions there:

citizenshipinfo@justice.ie

MadsL

bedek wrote: »

Additionally as there very difficult to contact with INIS in relation to Citizenship queries (I know that there is phone number on the page) - do you know email address to contact them ?

It is easier to go into the INIS office, as they simply don't answer the phone.

Are you also aware that it costs €950 to process the application and wait times (not residency times) are about 2.5 years to get your application processed.

bedek

Ok, finally I've go answer for my question in relation to the Nationalization Calculator so will share with anyone interested:

"...If you are an E.U. citizen for more than five years please submit proof of
residence in the State amounting to for a total of five years in the last
nine years, to include the year prior to application. Please submit three
different proofs of residence for each year showing name and address for
this period i.e. household bills (gas, electricity, phone or
cable/satellite TV), bank statements, revenue letters, mortgage agreement,
social welfare, letter from employment, doctors letter etc...."

So I don't need to attach that report from Naturalization Calculator.

I've one last question: I need to pay initial 175E, according to the form I need to do it in this way:

"...The Statutory Application Fee of €175. This should be in the form of a banker’s draft or postal order payable to the
Secretary General, Department of Justice and Equality..."

This is quite silly question but where/how should I make "banker’s draft" or "postal order" - I do all my payments over direct debit or on-line bank transfer .
As I understand "postal order" can be done only in the post office on the form provide by an post and "banker’s draft" must be done only in my bank filling form provided by bank ?

antoobrien

bedek wrote: »

This is quite silly question but where/how should I make "banker’s draft" or "postal order" - I do all my payments over direct debit or on-line bank transfer .
As I understand "postal order" can be done only in the post office on the form provide by an post and "banker’s draft" must be done only in my bank filling form provided by bank ?

You go into the post office or a bank and buy one. You don't have to be a customer of the bank in question (though it helps because they can withdraw money direct from your account).

user111

I came across this post today, so I know it's a bit old when I look at the date, but I was hoping to get any info on how your case is going? Do you have any news regarding your application? Cheers Pete

The Corinthian

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Other than voting rights, does it offer you more rights than you would get as an eu citizen?

I have multiple citizenships and there's a number of reasons this can be handy, some of which the OP already raised.

There's political reasons, for example; someone with an Irish passport is going to get a better reception in a lot of countries (especially the middle east) than with one from many Western nations. Conversely, if travelling to Israel, you're better off not travelling with an Irish passport. Additionally, if travelling to both Arab nations and Israel, you essentially need two passports anyway as a visa stamp from one will cause you problems if you want to enter the other.

Having a spare passport can also be very handy in some sticky situations abroad.

EU citizenship presently give freedom of movement to live and work, but there are limits to this (e.g. Denmark, Malta). Additionally, in ten, twenty or forty years time, there's no knowing how this may change - for example, if the UK does leave the EU, then travel there on an Irish passport will likely be a lot easier than on other EU passports.

Visas for non-EU nations also vary. Green cards in the US are done on a country by country basis, with quotas. Countries like Switzerland or Norway effectively have freedom of movement for Western European nations, but restrictions for the Eastern ones.

Also one guy I know got Irish citizenship, partially because not having done his military service back home, he had difficulty renewing his passport. And I'm sure there's dozens of other practical reasons for this for doing so.

Of course, there are also reasons not to get a second citizenship too. Some countries require you give up your original citizenship, when you do. Military service is a reason I've seen to avoid or at least delay, gaining citizenship, until you're older.

My father never bothered, as another example example. Partially because he didn't really care to vote (and being married to an Irishwoman gave him every other right), but also because he received a knighthood and would have been loathed to ask the permission of the Irish government to accept it.

But ultimately, if you've made your home somewhere, you might as well become a citizen. You're invested in the welfare of the country you now call home and thus have a vested interest in being involved in it. It also makes for much higher moral ground when discussing local matters - I've heard German Turks who've lived in Germany all their lives being talked down to in political discussions, simply because they don't have citizenship.

So if Ireland is your home, it's ultimately worth your while.

walrusgumble

bedek wrote: »

Hi,

I'm will be shortly applying for Irish citizenship and have question in relation to "Naturalisation Residency Calculator".

Accordring to Form 8 on page 6 there is information:

"A RESIDENCY CALCULATOR IS PROVIDED ON THE CITIZENSHIP SECTION AT [url]HTTP://WWW.INIS.GOV.IE[/url] AS
A GUIDE TO ASSIST YOU IN CHECKING IF YOU SATISFY THE STATUTORY CONDITIONS FOR RESIDENCY.
YOU SHOULD ENTER YOUR PERMISSIONS AS EVIDENCED IN YOUR PASSPORT AND VERIFY THAT YOU
SATISFY RESIDENCY REQUIREMENTS.
PLEASE PRINT A COPY OF THE REPORT AND INCLUDE IT WITH YOUR APPLICATION"

I'm from Poland which is part of European Union so I don't use passport to cross the border as result and I don't have any permission (stamps) in the my passport required on the calculator page.

There is also point in INIS FAQ - Q. How is my period of residency calculated ? saying that:
...Permission to remain in the State, evidenced by the Garda National Immigration Bureau placing a permission stamp...

And again this is quite an issue for anyone from European Union as I've contacted with Garda and I was told that they do not provide any stamps for people from European Union.

Is there anyone from European Union country who have experience with applying for citizenship and could answer my questions - if people from European Union have to have print out from "Naturalisation Residency Calculator" at all ?


Additionally as there very difficult to contact with INIS in relation to Citizenship queries (I know that there is phone number on the page) - do you know email address to contact them ?

PS
Please I would not like to start discussion why to apply for citizenship and if it is possible at all.
Just to clear these points up front it is possible to have 2 passports and 2 EU citizenships - I've answers from Polish embassy and INIS.

Very simple solution.

As an EU national, you won' t have stamps on passport

Now, officially, you are suppose to inform the Department of your presence and apply for a EU 1 Card and Permanent Residency. Now, that simply "confirms" residency as oppose to "granting residency"


However, for some reason, many don't do that. It should not effect one

What you need to do is provide evidence that you have been exercising your Treaty Rights for the 5 years,. IE clear evidence of work (eg p60, payslips for each year) and proof that you have been living here for that period. (any document)

walrusgumble

The Corinthian wrote: »

I have multiple citizenships and there's a number of reasons this can be handy, some of which the OP already raised.

There's political reasons, for example; someone with an Irish passport is going to get a better reception in a lot of countries (especially the middle east) than with one from many Western nations. Conversely, if travelling to Israel, you're better off not travelling with an Irish passport. Additionally, if travelling to both Arab nations and Israel, you essentially need two passports anyway as a visa stamp from one will cause you problems if you want to enter the other.

Having a spare passport can also be very handy in some sticky situations abroad.

EU citizenship presently give freedom of movement to live and work, but there are limits to this (e.g. Denmark, Malta). Additionally, in ten, twenty or forty years time, there's no knowing how this may change - for example, if the UK does leave the EU, then travel there on an Irish passport will likely be a lot easier than on other EU passports.

Visas for non-EU nations also vary. Green cards in the US are done on a country by country basis, with quotas. Countries like Switzerland or Norway effectively have freedom of movement for Western European nations, but restrictions for the Eastern ones.

Also one guy I know got Irish citizenship, partially because not having done his military service back home, he had difficulty renewing his passport. And I'm sure there's dozens of other practical reasons for this for doing so.

Of course, there are also reasons not to get a second citizenship too. Some countries require you give up your original citizenship, when you do. Military service is a reason I've seen to avoid or at least delay, gaining citizenship, until you're older.

My father never bothered, as another example example. Partially because he didn't really care to vote (and being married to an Irishwoman gave him every other right), but also because he received a knighthood and would have been loathed to ask the permission of the Irish government to accept it.

But ultimately, if you've made your home somewhere, you might as well become a citizen. You're invested in the welfare of the country you now call home and thus have a vested interest in being involved in it. It also makes for much higher moral ground when discussing local matters - I've heard German Turks who've lived in Germany all their lives being talked down to in political discussions, simply because they don't have citizenship.

So if Ireland is your home, it's ultimately worth your while.

In an ideal world, you naturalise because you feel part of the Country that you live in , culturally and "spirtually" .

You don't seek another passport / citizenship simply for Immigration Conveniences. That cheapens the idea of Citizenship. Of course, that is not the real world



"Also one guy I know got Irish citizenship, partially because not having done his military service back home, he had difficulty renewing his passport. And I'm sure there's dozens of other practical reasons for this for doing so."

That reeks of nonsense. Maybe he was considered "Stateless" and thus entitled to APPLY to be considered after 3 years, as oppose to 5 years legal residency. (got residency , yes, ok, but Citizenship? Immediately? In the past 6 years? Doubt it)

The Corinthian

walrusgumble wrote: »

In an ideal world, you naturalise because you feel part of the Country that you live in , culturally and "spirtually" .

Ideally, I agree - although I would see it in terms of being a member of the community where you live, in that you have both a vested interest and responsibility twoards your fellow community members, i.e. citizens.

Nationalism has declined in importance hugely in the West since World War II - indeed, considering yourself 'spiritually' a citizen is a bit laughable in this day and age.

You don't seek another passport / citizenship simply for Immigration Conveniences. That cheapens the idea of Citizenship. Of course, that is not the real world

I suspect very few EU citizens seek citizenship for such practical reasons alone and that an actual decision to become permanently resident and otherwise integrate tends to be the primary reason. Of course, non-EU citizens are more likely to do so for such reasons, simply because they lack the same level of freedom of movement.

That reeks of nonsense. Maybe he was considered "Stateless" and thus entitled to APPLY to be considered after 3 years, as oppose to 5 years legal residency. (got residency , yes, ok, but Citizenship? Immediately? In the past 6 years? Doubt it)

Not being able to renew your passport does not make you stateless - you're still a citizen, it just means that due to some obligation (such as military service or, in the US, payment of ex-patriot taxes) you won't be issued a new passport when your old one expires.

amen

I've heard German Turks who've lived in Germany..

I though until quite recently it was practically impossible to get German citizenship?

They had third generation German-Turks who couldn't get it.

The Corinthian

amen wrote: »

I though until quite recently it was practically impossible to get German citizenship?

It was much more difficult, but the main problem was that Germany did not allow dual citizenship - once you took German citizenship you had to give up your previous one and many German-Turks refused to do this.