Incorrect Bike Set up - does it cause injury?

Seve OB

Ok, so when I bought my bike in Eurocycles, there was no fitting or setting it up for me. I litterally got down off the shelf, jumped up on it and cycled home.

Now I'm pretty sure the saddle is to low, but I was happy with it that way as I felt more in control of the bike as it had been a long time since I was on a bike. I was only doing a 10k spin in and out of work a couple of times a week.

In the last couple of months, I am actually doing some proper distances (well I think so anyway) of anywhere from 40-70k, and going further all the time. I have noticed sometimes a bit of a pain in my left arm, and everytime guaranteed a pretty sore left knee.

Now I have recenlty been told that a sore knee is a sign that the saddle might be to low, and a sore butt is a sign that the saddle could be to high. This would make sense because of what I said above, but is there any real truth or science behind it?

Maybe there is a reason, like I'm over stretching for the handle bars which gives the pain in the left elbow?

I'm not looking for any medical advice, but before I seek a physio for the knee, I would be interested to know if the bike set up could be causing the problems I'm having and maybe is there any where I could go that would double check my set up and make sure it is ok for me?

I don't want to go back to Eurocycles, but don't mind paying for someone to do it for me, but would they do it and where?

Tonyandthewhale

Yes, incorrect bike set-up can and will cause injuries. A saddle set too low is a common cause of knee pain in cyclists. Not too sure about the elbow thing but it's not impossible that it's something to do with your bike set-up or it might be something to do with how you sit yourself on the bike, are your arms usually locked and rigid or do you bend at the elbow?

As regards bike fit, there are plenty of people out there who'll do a proper bike fit for you. I haven't availed of their services myself so I can't reccommend one but if you do a search for 'bike fit' here you'll probably find something, otherwise I'm sure someone will be along shortly who has some actuall experience of proffessional bike fit and will be able to point you in the right direction.

Seve OB

Tonyandthewhale wrote: »

Yes, incorrect bike set-up can and will cause injuries. A saddle set too low is a common cause of knee pain in cyclists. Not too sure about the elbow thing but it's not impossible that it's something to do with your bike set-up or it might be something to do with how you sit yourself on the bike, are your arms usually locked and rigid or do you bend at the elbow?

Thanks Tony. I don't really sit low down and normally sit in a pretty upright position, but to be fair, I am always moving and shifting positions. Off now to search for bike fitting...

07Lapierre

http://www.bikefittingireland.com/index.html

Seve OB

just found this, but is €100 not a bit over the top for someone to throw a measuring tape down my inside leg and adjust the saddle and handlebars.

Maybe it is just me

Edit : Thanks Lapierre, I was obviously looking as you posted

quietsailor

stevieob wrote: »

just found this, but is €100 not a bit over the top for someone to throw a measuring tape down my inside leg and adjust the saddle and handlebars.

Maybe it is just me

What is the cost of a physio - probably a one off introduction fee of €50 and a per session fee of €40? I'm using the prices my chiropractor quotes which is a similar discipline to a physio - she is rehabilitating my back bone rather than my back muscle.

If you go to a physio now only and not the fitter in a couple of months time it will likely be a repeat physio visit but if you spend the money on a proper fitting now you might save that money.

If money is really tight with you google to see if you can ge tinstructions on bike fitting, I'd prefer to go the route of a once off cost though and get it right.

Jawgap

stevieob wrote: »

just found this, but is €100 not a bit over the top for someone to throw a measuring tape down my inside leg and adjust the saddle and handlebars to help me prevent me damaging my knees, back and neck?.

Maybe it is just me

FYP

On a 2/3 hr cycle you'll turn the cranks about 10,000 times - that's a lot of rubbing and stretching in joints. If the bike set up is off it can most definitely lead to problems - at best it'll be uncomfortable, at worst you'll injure yourself.

I think, in fairness to bike fitters they do a bit more than lash a measuring tape down your leg - if it's done properly with video analysis it can take a while to fine tune things.

Look on it as an investment in your knees:)

sled driver

stevieob wrote: »

............but is €100 not a bit over the top for someone to throw a measuring tape down my inside leg and adjust the saddle and handlebars

How much are your knees worth to you??

If you've never had problems with your knees before then changing the bike set-up may be a better initial use of money than a physio.

Seve OB

Sorry guys, I've only started looking at this and already a minefield of information. I was naieve in thinking it would be a quick measure, and I take your points about the price of Physio, value of my knees etc.

Looks like €100 is not so much after all, so I will be paying someone a visit. Seems to be a good few out there... so now to find someone near me, Bray is awkward

kumate_champ07

I need to get one done asap, 100euro is not alot compared to 'performance boosting' component upgrades, save a few grammes with a 100euro seatpost or gain some watts with a better bike fit, bike fit wins

Beasty

stevieob wrote: »

so now to find someone near me, Bray is awkward

Aidan Hammond is not much more than 5 minutes away from Bray. Did mine, and lots of positive feedback in numerous threads on here. Only problem could be finding a slot with him as he's very popular

piston

Set up is critical, especially saddle height as that will really hammer the knees. Bars too low or too far away can put too much weight on your hands or cause back trouble.

Late last year, I went on a 50 mile ride on a bike that I had for a while but hadn't rode much and discovered the seat post was slipping en-route. Unusually for me (as I always go qell equipped), I had no tools to fit the bolt so soldiered on and ended up with a sore knee for the next two months.

A good starting point is to prop yourself up against a wall or something and adjust the saddle until you can just about touch the pedal with your heel when it is at the bottom. Your kneecap should be roughly inline with the pedal axle when the pedal is in 3 o' clock position but this isn't a hard and fast rule. I think it's generally better further back for touring/normal riding but racers and time triallists will probably want it further forward. The important thing to remember is never move the saddle to adjust reach to the bars, change the stem if necessary. Also, if you do move the saddle back or forward, you will also need to recheck the height as they are related. Bar position is more about your own personal preference. Lower is more aero-efficient, higher is more likely to be comfortable for most people.

I think this is one of the most straightforward guides online and the one I use myself - http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm

Edit - The other favourite reason for knee pain is riding in a gear which is too high. Learn to spin a lower gear, it's more efficient and easier in the long run.

07Lapierre

Get onto Youtube and google Bike fitting / Bike setup etc.

Get your Saddle/Handlebar height correct first. this is easy to do at home. If you still have problems after that, then start looking at bike fit.

Saddle height: when sitting on the saddle, your leg should be slightly bent when the pedal is at the very bottom of the pedal stroke. Get that right first.

No need to spend any money yet.

oops too late...well done Piston.

piston

One further point is that if you have feet that toe in or out by nature, poorly fitted and adjusted cleats/straps/clips can force you feet into an un-natural position which can certainly cause knee problems. Sit on a bar stool or something high and let your legs dangle to see which position your feet are in and make adjustments if necessary.

If you ride normal pedals, you shouldn't have this issue.

CptMackey

Def worth getting it done properly. Never did it on my first bike but got it done for my new one and the difference is amazing. You won't be wasting energy either

Seve OB

Beasty wrote: »

Aidan Hammond is not much more than 5 minutes away from Bray. Did mine, and lots of positive feedback in numerous threads on here. Only problem could be finding a slot with him as he's very popular

Heya Quasimodo Beasty, I read your post on your bike fit and wanted to ask you about the fallen arches you mentioned.....even though you don't have them.

I always had flat feet when I was a kid and remember the folks bringing me to all sorts of specialists until I think the eventually just gave up!! Recently I took up running a little and felt pain like shin splints every time even for very short distances (as in only about 2-3k). I think a longer distance would definately have developed the shin splints. So I went to a physio who said straight away that I was pronouncing a lot and have very fallen arches! New stability runners and with longer distances now (5k+), I haven't since felt the pains.

But I dont see how fallen arches could affect the cycling as there is no impact of the feet on the ground, really once clicked in with the cleats, I more or less just have the balls of the feet on the pedals..

I had gone Ice skating a few years ago (my first and only time) and of course fell hard on my knee cause I was showing off. It wasn't broken but very sore for months and I never got Physio for it). I had been putting this down to the pains till now......

In the middle of reading Peter Whites page at the moment and going to adjust the bike a little before heading out on it later on so it will be interesting to see if I can make any difference.

This guy Aidan out in Bray looks the job though, even if it is a pain in the arse to get to, but I do think after all your help and comments it is the way to go, so I guess I'm going to have to make an appointment.

Thanks again guys.

mickeycav

hopefully this doesnt sound like a stupid q but should you get a bike fit done prior to purchasing a bike so you know all the measurements you need for perfect fit rather than after the event?

clod71

I also want to have a proper bike sizing before doing the Ring of Kerry cycle, which I (daringly) signed up for this morning.
I am also quite new to cycling and sized my first bike just standing over the top tube...

Does anybody know if there's someone in Cork who provides bike fitting services?

EDIT:
if you're in the Cork area The Edge offers bike fitting services and they seemed to be very nice. 150e for a professional one, but only 50e for a basic one.

Seve OB

mickeycav wrote: »

hopefully this doesnt sound like a stupid q but should you get a bike fit done prior to purchasing a bike so you know all the measurements you need for perfect fit rather than after the event?

Couldn't agree more, which is one big reason I hate Eurocycles. My bike fitting there consisted of the shop assistant telling me to throw my leg over the floor model and told me that as there was gap of about an inch or so between me and the frame it was the right size.

To be fair, I really liked the bike and it just couldn't be got anywhere else so I went ahead and bought it from them, but neither did I realise then the actual technicalities in setting a bike up correctly. Now I understand a bit more and realise how poor a service I received from them.

mickeycav

Hi Stevie, so should I
(1) go to to a bike fitter first then before buying, or
(2) buy based on shop recommendations and then bring bike along to fitter to tweak the fit?

Jawgap

mickeycav wrote: »

Hi Stevie, so should I
(1) go to to a bike fitter first then before buying, or
(2) buy based on shop recommendations and then bring bike along to fitter to tweak the fit?

My suggested answer is (2)

Read around a bit first and then go buy your bike from a decent shop. If you are worried about fit, it might be best to stay away from Halfords, unless you are sure you know exactly what you want.

You can probably then do some basic adjustments yourself, but once you start doing longer times / distances you need to think about a proper fitting session to fine tune matters.

....that would by my 2¢ worth

clod71

mickeycav wrote: »

Hi Stevie, so should I
(1) go to to a bike fitter first then before buying, or
(2) buy based on shop recommendations and then bring bike along to fitter to tweak the fit?

I suppose the first bike is just a little bit of a guess... then if you are a good listener you start understanding your body and, like Stevie now wants to do, get some sort of bike fitting done.
The second, third, forth, etc.. after that bike is a complete different story because you already know what is your frame size and you know your position and so on...

Also, on a practical note, I don't think my LBS would have let me bring the bike to Wicklow for a fitting before buying... but that maybe is just Cork people

Seve OB

mickeycav wrote: »

Hi Stevie, so should I
(1) go to to a bike fitter first then before buying, or
(2) buy based on shop recommendations and then bring bike along to fitter to tweak the fit?

Heya Mickey

I think if you have read the thread, you will notice that I'm probably the last guy who should be giving you advice.

This guy Aidan out in Bray seems to be the DB from what I'm reading, but it also appears that there are a number of shops who have the same equipment as he does. One being, Fitz cycles in Stillorgan, which I happened to be in Co-incidently last night. They seem reall knowledgeable and friendly and if I had known what I do today, yesterday, I could have quizzed them about the set up of my bike.

My advice, go there, or somewhere similar that will measure you properly when selling you a bike, rather than a crap shop which only cares about flogging units and getting commission or whatever....

C3PO

stevieob wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, which is one big reason I hate Eurocycles. My bike fitting there consisted of the shop assistant telling me to throw my leg over the floor model and told me that as there was gap of about an inch or so between me and the frame it was the right size.

In fairness to shops like Eurocycles or Halfords they are more like supermarkets than a local LBS such as Fitzcycles! I think it would be reasonable to expect them to sell you a bike that's the correct size (although I know it often doesn't happen) but expecting them to give you a proper "bike fit" would be unrealistic!

bal1000

piston wrote: »

One further point is that if you have feet that toe in or out by nature, poorly fitted and adjusted cleats/straps/clips can force you feet into an un-natural position which can certainly cause knee problems. Sit on a bar stool or something high and let your legs dangle to see which position your feet are in and make adjustments if necessary.

If you ride normal pedals, you shouldn't have this issue.

+1 on this i used to get a pain in my left knee when on the bike and decided to get my bike fitted.My bike was actually ok but my cleats were all over the place.I havent looked back since and would highly recommend getting a bike fit done.Btw Aidan will come to you if you have enough numbers (i done mine throu the club)

Seve OB

RPL1 wrote: »

In fairness to shops like Eurocycles or Halfords they are more like supermarkets than a local LBS such as Fitzcycles! I think it would be reasonable to expect them to sell you a bike that's the correct size (although I know it often doesn't happen) but expecting them to give you a proper "bike fit" would be unrealistic!

I disagree. Maybe with Halfords I would expect such a poor level of service as they are basically a motor factors who have diversified their business to incorporate bikes, so yea, they might be a supermarket style shop where you won't get the best level of service.

Eurocycles though, well the clue is in the name of the shop.... they are a bike shop so by default they should act like one.

TBH I really wouldn't expect an expert bike fit from any bike shop after reading what I've read today, but I would expect some kind of knowledge and understanding of how the bike should fit and be set up for the customer rather than, "here you go, you are about 6ft so this bike should be the right size for ya"