Unsure of how to increase speed (beginner level)

Pacing Mule

I've been reading up a lot on various methods on increasing running speed (including other threads in this forum) and I'm not sure what the best way forward for me is as a relative beginner.

Background: I started running in January and at this have just gotten myself to the point where I am capable of running a 10km non stop - however my time is very slow - in fact the 10k distance has been more of an endurance feat for me than anything else. I ran the 10k Samsung night race in 68min (having once before managed it in 64min in the run up to it)

Whilst pleased to have finished without stopping it's clear that my time is quite slow in the overall scheme of things and has a lot of room for improvement. A lot of the reading I have done is aimed at people cutting a few minutes at a time off their 10k PB's whereas I'm looking to knock out 18-20 min off mine - and I do have the room to do this based on a 68min time - a 50 min 10k would not be considered unobtainable at all whereas cutting a 50 min pace to a 30 min 10k would be reserved for elite athletes only.

So from what I can gather there are a few schools of thought and I would appreciate any advice / thoughts. What I have noted so far is:

1) Obvious starting point is to lose weight - the more that comes off the quicker you run. I am 14.5 Stone at moment (coming down from 16 Stone in January) and I know that as more weight comes off it will help the time.

2) Have a look at my stride - I observed other runners during the race and most runners ran with a longer stride than me even though I'm 6ft+ I think I shuffle / turnover paces too fast and increasing the length of my stride would be an improvement.

3) Run longer distances. If I were to regularly run 15k distances then running a 10k becomes relatively easier - at which point speed can increase.

4) Run shorter distance. Run shorter distances at faster speeds. A comfortable enough 10k pace can be increased for shorter distances which can become longer as time goes on.

5) Run the same distance more often. As it gets easier to run the distance this leaves room to naturally increase the pace.

6) Interval training - This seems to involve a wide range of theories and methods and perhaps what I need most advice about. Intersperse faster running sections within the run and hopefully over time these sew together to form a new faster base pace (be that the faster interval becomes the base or the base speed increases due to the time spent running at higher pace)

7) Start a couch to 5k program again. Similar to interval training but taking a 9 week couch to 5k program but running the "running" segments at a lot higher a pace than first time round.

I suspect that the best way forward for me is actually a combination of all points above. I would though appreciate the thoughts of the more experienced members of the community here. I am entering the Irish runner 5 mile at the end of June and the Fingal 10k on the 22nd of July and I think I can significantly improve my time here. My medium term goal will be a 40 min 5 mile / 50 min 5k and I understand that this may not be achievable in 3 months. However I'd like to try and would appreciate any pointers towards how to get there - in particular on how to approach interval training for this kind of goal.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

RayCun

You don't say how much/how often you run at the moment, which would be good to know

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

2) Have a look at my stride - I observed other runners during the race and most runners ran with a longer stride than me even though I'm 6ft+ I think I shuffle / turnover paces too fast and increasing the length of my stride would be an improvement.

Don't do that, you'll overstride - landing on your heels and braking your run.

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

3) Run longer distances.
4) Run shorter distance.
5) Run the same distance more often.

Yes, yes, and yes. Run longer distances, run shorter distances, and run the same distance more often. Run more often.:)

Rather than going back to couch to 5k, follow a 10k training plan - for example

Pacing Mule

Hi RayCun

Thanks for the reply.

I have been running 3 times a week - usually on a Mon / Wed / Fri but am planning to increase this to 4/5 times. Usual distances would be anything from 5k to 8k but I did do one 10k a couple of weeks ago and then the race itself on Sunday.

The plan you linked to when I first saw it appeared at first glance to be more of a plan to get to a 10k run rather than taking the capability of running a 10k and improving the time. Would it be a case of running the shorter runs at a faster pace than the longer and gradually increasing Sunday runs ?

And of course from that link I realise I missed strength / weight training in my OP !

BorneTobyWilde

Slow , why fast .
Work up to it

drquirky

I actually think you are overthinking this. At this stage, if you continue to run consistently you will get faster. Don't worry so much about it right now- you just started running in January- enjoy it and just put in the miles, I promise your times will come down....

pconn062

+1 on what drquirky says.

As a beginner the best way to get quicker is to run more. Simple as that. If you're running 3 days a week now add another day and try that for a few weeks and then add another day until you're up to 5-6 days a week. This alone will make you quicker without any speed work.

JohnnyCrash

PATIENCE;)

murpho999

As someone in a similar position to yourself I think you need to be a bit more patient.

I was a complete couch potato, where even holding the remote control was an effort.
Had gained weight up to 96 kg whilst being 179cm long (sorry but I use metric all the time, that's about 5'10").
When I saw that this gave me a BMI of 29.9 and .1 short of being offically obese I knew I had to do something.

This was the trigger for me, had not been happy with my weight for a long time, tried diets etc but realised that exercise was needed.
So on Jan 10 I went out and 'ran' 1.8k, walked a good bit but that was it I was on my way.
Stuck with running 3 times a week and just worked on getting distance into my legs, which I read is the most important, aimed to be able to run without walking and kept going, and adding 10% distance per week.

Pretty soon I started to improve and feel better and I am still amazed that I have completed the 10k in town on Sunday in a time of 59 mins.
Weight is flying off me, down to 84.7kg

Plan now is just to keep getting more distance in. Temptation is like yourself to run more but I've read that that can cause injury if done too fast (really have to remember I'm only running over 3 months) and so I'm just going to keep going as I think as my stamina and fitness increases then the speed will just naturally come with it.

wrstan

It's always really great to hear of someone taking up running and really getting a buzz out of it, so well done on that.

drquirky wrote: »

At this stage, if you continue to run consistently you will get faster

+1 from me on consistency. Patience is always difficult especially if you are enjoying your running, finding it makes you feel good and are chomping at the bit to get to the next stage. If you try to leap forward too quickly it is a sure recipe for injury, which could set you back weeks or even months.

My advice to you is set yourself a very simple plan that is appropriate to where you are at for the next 12 weeks. Maybe others can advise more on what to put into such a plan, but I would strongly recommend that you keep it really simple. For example, your plan might just be to run 4 times a week, maybe with a gradual ramp up of your weekly mileage or total running time, say by 5 - 10% every couple of weeks. Your plan doesn't need to be any more complicated at this stage. If you don't already I recommend that you start keeping a log and record your progress against the plan. If you finish out the 12 weeks and have achieved >80% of your plan then you have done pretty well. Focus on achieving consistency, so it would be better to run 3 times every week for a month rather than a total of 16 runs of 5, 2, 3, 6.

By far the most important thing is to enjoy your running, so maybe try out some new scenic routes or find a running buddy to work through your plan with you. If you achieve that then maybe start thinking about introducing more complexity to your programme.

Anyway have fun!

firemouth

keep up the good work!!patience is the key at this stage,too much too soon can lead to injury and a put a stop to your progress.

rom

Joining a club like fit4life or a friendly running club would be probably the best way you can achieve your goals as you have some incorrect idea's on what kind of training you need. We all do at the start but you can nip it in the bud. You need structure training and guidance on what you should be doing. Not a good idea to answer all questions in a single post as there are too many missing variables. Don't sell yourself short, Steve Way didn't http://www.steveway.co.uk/?page_id=2

LarMan

My experience is similar to your own. I started running at the end of
August 2011. Started with the C25K and then the bridge to 10K and completed the bridge to 10K near the end of November with times of about 1 hour flat.

Started a half marathon program after that and completed the Wicklow half in 2:03 (hard finish in that race so I reckon I could have gone faster on a flater course).

Started in week 4 of Hal Higdons intermediate 10K program leading up to the Samsung night race. I finished that in a chipped time of 49:58.

My advice is to start these plans and put the mileage in and you will see the results as the weigh comes off and you increase your milage.

What I and I suspect you would like is someone to be able to tell us that if you do X you will be faster by Y in Z months. I also want to get faster and am frustrated at times as to how long it takes. I have been running just over 8 months from a very similar position as yourself and age 42. So if you stick with it and follow the programs you should be able to hit 50 minutes.

Now I just need someone to tell me how I can get faster to hit 45 minutes

Pacing Mule

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think my issue was that having looked at training plans for longer distances I didn't see anything that gave a clear path / instructions towards running faster. When you start off running like I did with a couch to 5k app you have a set program to follow which if you do ends up with the goal achieved - that of being able to run 5k I thought that there would be a similar kind of pathway designed for speed improvement for beginners but instead found all of the options laid out in the OP from various sources.

It seems clear that the best thing to do is run more often and more varied distances / speeds and let it build naturally.

couerdelion

This is a 16 week plan to get an athlete to sub 40 mins for a 10km. To be doing that you would want to be sub 45 at least and putting in 50+km a week.

But I'm pretty sure it could be amended to suit someone who's original aim is to beat say 50mins. Then amended again for 45 and finally used it in it's original form to beat 50 mins.

HelenAnne

How soon do you want to knock that 18 mins or so off? If you're happy to take your time, then I'd say 'just keep running' and 'join a club' are perfect pieces of advice. I'm still pretty slow, but I've knocked about 10 minutes off my 10k time in a year and over 5 mins off my 5k time in the same period. I haven't done any speed training yet (though I know I really should). I just kept running & increasing my distances, joined a club so I had others to run with, did some of my runs with people faster than me and raced a lot and my times just gradually came down.

For me, the main thing is to keep the enjoyment aspect so I keep running. I run with a group for the social aspect (I've made lots of friends through running), I race for the social & competitive aspect (and the biscuits after!) and run on my own for pleasure as well. I think there are loads of plans you could follow (and I know some people find structure really helpful), but alternatively you could just make running a part of your life, keep enjoying it, run with other people and you'll see vast improvement. And well done on your first 10k! Hope you really enjoyed it.

Gambas

I'm in a pretty similar situation to the OP. I too started in January and I've run a an 8k at the end of Feb and a 10k recently. I followed Hal Higdon's Novice program for the 8k and then this one for the 10k

http://running.about.com/od/racetraining/a/10Kadvbeginner.htm

I thought this schedule worked really well for me. No gym work, 3 runs a week and a cross training (usually swimming or a brisk walk). I kept to every run but skipped the CT on occasion.

Anyway, I set a goal of 50min for the 10k and came in at 49, so all good so far. But like the OP, I think I need to increase my speed if I want to hit my next goal which is tentatively set at a sub 47min 10k in about a months time.

I'm hoping to get into a cycle of a 8/10k race every 4/6 weeks between now and the autumn. So any advice on how I should approach the next month and each cycle after that would be appreciated. Do I repeat the last 4 weeks of the program I just did, or should I be adding anything else in at this stage?

Pacing Mule

HelenAnne wrote: »

How soon do you want to knock that 18 mins or so off?

I'd love to do it over the course of the next two months - I've a 5 Mile race scheduled for the end of June. If it was anyways achievable I'd be aiming for 40 min there (or as close as I can get to it if it's not )

Pacing Mule

RayCun wrote: »

Don't do that, you'll overstride - landing on your heels and braking your run.

Would you mind elaborating on that ? From what I can tell I land on my heel first when running at the moment. I've been aware of this ever since you advised not to look at my stride for danger of over striding

I may have to face a reality that I have a terribly awkward running style but I am running what appears to be shorter strides than most runners but still landing heel first. I am now concious of the fact that I appear to lean back when running as if I were running down a steep hill and need to balance myself (its not quite as dramatic as that) - If I lean forward slightly my stride lands on the ball of the feet which does feel like an easier strike of the ground if that makes sense.

I don't want to be overthinking this either but if it's something that I could do with working on it would make sense to start addressing it .

pconn062

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Would you mind elaborating on that ? From what I can tell I land on my heel first when running at the moment. I've been aware of this ever since you advised not to look at my stride for danger of over striding

I may have to face a reality that I have a terribly awkward running style but I am running what appears to be shorter strides than most runners but still landing heel first. I am now concious of the fact that I appear to lean back when running as if I were running down a steep hill and need to balance myself (its not quite as dramatic as that) - If I lean forward slightly my stride lands on the ball of the feet which does feel like an easier strike of the ground if that makes sense.

I don't want to be overthinking this either but if it's something that I could do with working on it would make sense to start addressing it .

Generally landing on your heel or heel striking is a bad way to land as it can lead to injury. You strike down very hard which sends shock waves up your legs and can be jarring (especially if you're overweight, not saying you are !). Generally new runners and slower runners always heel strike because their stride is shorter. The more you run, the more you start noticing these things and ideally you should be aiming to land flat or mid foot, ie your weight being spread over your entire foot as opposed to concentrating it on your heel. Then as you get quicker, especially when racing you will start landing on your toes and bouncing of your toes which gives you a longer stride and allows you to run faster. That's what happened to me anyway.

RayCun

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

I don't want to be overthinking this either but if it's something that I could do with working on it would make sense to start addressing it .

I was just pointing out that trying to lengthen your stride would be counter-productive at this point. Your stride will improve naturally as you run more, and your strides will lengthen (properly) as your legs get stronger and your flexibility improves.
If you want to work on anything, you could make sure you are running 'tall' - back straight and head held high, gaze on the horizon, rather than bent over.

seanynova

best thing you could do is just run more and forget about becoming faster, it will come naturally, you have probably gotten faster in your running since you started, that trend will continue.

improove your flexibility and core strength...get your weight down if necessary and run more if possible.

strides, hill sprints also help but you could be dancing with the devil regarding injury with those sessions.

RedRunner

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I think my issue was that having looked at training plans for longer distances I didn't see anything that gave a clear path / instructions towards running faster. When you start off running like I did with a couch to 5k app you have a set program to follow which if you do ends up with the goal achieved - that of being able to run 5k I thought that there would be a similar kind of pathway designed for speed improvement for beginners but instead found all of the options laid out in the OP from various sources.

It seems clear that the best thing to do is run more often and more varied distances / speeds and let it build naturally.

It has been said many times already but from experience I can also say that a little patience and a lot of running is the key. I started running in 2010 at age 38 and 17.5 stones and I'm 6'5" in height. Did my first 10k in 61 mins last yr and down to 51mins this yr at Samsung Night Run. Also managed my first Marathon last yr in 4:45.(My starting line weight was 15st 7lbs)

Back to 16 st 6lbs now with goal to do sub 4 hr DCM. Recently got 5 mile time down to 40 mins from 45 last year. All of this was done without any master plan, just being a bit patient and going for gradual improvements each race. Going for smaller more gradual improvements and succeeding rather than big improvements and failing are much better psychologically aswell.

Best of luck with your goals and training

zooming

Hi PM,
Im the same, I can increase my distance but cant seem to get quicker! An time I try to increase my speed I wreck myself and end up with a niggle or two, so I figure I am just going to keep increasing my distance slowly and eventually the time will come down. Who knows! What are your long term goals? Id love to do a marathon.

heavyballs

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Hi RayCun

Thanks for the reply.

I have been running 3 times a week - usually on a Mon / Wed / Fri but am planning to increase this to 4/5 times. Usual distances would be anything from 5k to 8k but I did do one 10k a couple of weeks ago and then the race itself on Sunday.

The plan you linked to when I first saw it appeared at first glance to be more of a plan to get to a 10k run rather than taking the capability of running a 10k and improving the time. Would it be a case of running the shorter runs at a faster pace than the longer and gradually increasing Sunday runs ?

And of course from that link I realise I missed strength / weight training in my OP !

Hi PM,
I was in a very similar situation to yours and all you need is patience.
Jan 1st 2010 i started a log when i shocked the f*** out of myself when i weighed in at 14 st 5.
I started running 2 10 k's a week taking just over an hour each time
I now weigh 12s 5 and run 10k in 38-40 mins.I don't do many runs,i just cut all the cra* out of my diet.If you're patient you'll do it,my advise to add to the above would be do a fair bit of hill work,i found in the long run that helped me greatly.
Going for a 12 miler now up the side of a mountain,great day for it.Best of luck with it.

Pacing Mule

zooming wrote: »

Hi PM,
Im the same, I can increase my distance but cant seem to get quicker! An time I try to increase my speed I wreck myself and end up with a niggle or two, so I figure I am just going to keep increasing my distance slowly and eventually the time will come down. Who knows! What are your long term goals? Id love to do a marathon.

Decided to sign up for this years marathon myself - For now that's my long term goal

heavyballs wrote: »

Hi PM,
I was in a very similar situation to yours and all you need is patience.
Jan 1st 2010 i started a log when i shocked the f*** out of myself when i weighed in at 14 st 5.
I started running 2 10 k's a week taking just over an hour each time
I now weigh 12s 5 and run 10k in 38-40 mins.I don't do many runs,i just cut all the cra* out of my diet.If you're patient you'll do it,my advise to add to the above would be do a fair bit of hill work,i found in the long run that helped me greatly.
Going for a 12 miler now up the side of a mountain,great day for it.Best of luck with it.

Ha Ha - You're shocked at youself weight of 14 st 5 is actually lighter than my current weight of 14 and a half. I shocked myself at 16 st back in January.

I know I'm carrying quite a lot of weight which as it continues to come off will no doubt improve my times.

RedRunner

Pageant Messiah wrote: »

Decided to sign up for this years marathon myself - For now that's my long term goal



Ha Ha - You're shocked at youself weight of 14 st 5 is actually lighter than my current weight of 14 and a half. I shocked myself at 16 st back in January.

I know I'm carrying quite a lot of weight which as it continues to come off will no doubt improve my times.

Got to ask you guys what sort of height you guys are as those weights don't seem too big to me. I'm just shy of 6'5" and 16 St 8lbs at moment. Was 17 st 10 lbs at my heaviest (2010)and 15 st 7 at start of last years DCM. I know I've some weight to lose but expect this will happen easily enough once I get the mileage up and stop eating crap and then times should start improving too....I hope

Pacing Mule

RedRunner wrote: »

Got to ask you guys what sort of height you guys are as those weights don't seem too big to me. I'm just shy of 6'5" and 16 St 8lbs at moment. Was 17 st 10 lbs at my heaviest (2010)and 15 st 7 at start of last years DCM. I know I've some weight to lose but expect this will happen easily enough once I get the mileage up and stop eating crap and then times should start improving too....I hope

In my case 6ft 1

endeavourgym

Hi guys, would like to introduce myself and maybe add something to this...

Hi OP,
Congratulations on beginning your quest for a fitter, healthier lifestyle. Seems you are over-analyzing things and at your level (not meant to belittle), there's no need to over complicate things.As most have said, run more, vary your running routes, run longer distances, as for technique join a club or meet with a coach skilled in running bio-mechanics, but remember there are many ways to skin a cat and a running technique that may work amazingly for me, may not be ideal for you.


RayCun has a point with trying to exaggerate your stride and this comes down to mechanics, you will want to be in the sweet spot, ie...

1) if you run with an excessively long stride, as with heel running which we now know isn't the most efficient way to run even at the shuffling pace, you will cause a breaking effect from the from leg hitting the ground, increased ground contract time and a subsequent reduction in force output on the next stride(this is due to elastic energy being dissipated during the ground contact)

2) if you run on you toes which you never should do, the heel will never stretch, thus it cant cause a stretch reflex in the calf, and yet again we have a reduced output on the next stride.

3) landing on the mid-forefoot will prime the Achilles for each stride, remembering you want the front foot to land under you body, not in front.

For now, worry about, building up your mileage, enjoying your runs, then you can refine your technique some more, but this wont happen automatically as most have suggested, It is about perfect practice, practice alone will not make perfect. mobility and strength wont just magically appear, they're are components that need training.

Try not to over think it, enjoy your running.

Frank