Larry Holmes

Maravilla33

I've noticed that heavyweight debates seem to attract a lot of traffic and interest on here compared to some other topics.

What I propose to do is pick a different heavyweight every week and debate their individual career focusing on,

Style
Strengths & Weaknesses
Biggest win/achievement
Biggest disappointment
Best KO
What other HW in history they would have struggled with most
Overall impact on the division

Can you also give them a mark out of 10 based on skills, achievements & legacy.

Its not a greatest heavy ever debate but more an analysis of each boxer individually.

Next up is Larry Holmes.

walshb

I don't like Larry much. Came across as bitter and jealous. Yes, he followed a sports legend, so what. He was bitter I thought

Style: A poorer version of the GOAT. Terrific snappy and rangey and fluid jab. Underrated power in his right hand. Very good upperct too. Decent foot speed and movement. Well conditioned. Very well conditioned. Good to very good chin. Good on the inside, and a nice punch variation. Threw more varied shots than Ali.

Strengths: Jab, stamina, determimation, speed of jab, feet, heart, chin.

Weakness; Eager to mix it up, and could well be badly hurt too. Good chin, not grade A though.

Best win? Cooney. He looked awesome that night, and the event and the whole "racial" element adds to the significance of that win.

Biggest disappointment? First heavy to lose the belt to a LHW. And, I was glad too because of his derogatory remarks about The Rock. And, lost the second one too, albeit controversially.

Best KO? To get off the floor after a wicked hit from Shavers and then KO Shavers later on.

Struggles with Liston, Foreman, peak Ali, Tyson. Tyson to me is the most dangerous for any version of Larry. Holmes could be nailed, and badly hurt. Shavers and Snipes did it, and serioulsy, Tyson is far more lethal than both. Larry does not weather the storm against Tyson if he gets hit and badly hurt.

Overall impact? Top ten no doubt. Never will be seen as the GOAT because he followed a legend.

He's a solid 9/10 as a HW fighter.

Maravilla33

Style - Pure boxer with great movement and ring smarts. Some say his style was similar to Ali.

Strengths - Unbelievable jab and recuperative powers.

Weaknesses -Was open to a good right hand and was decked by these several times in his career.

Biggest win/achievement - Winning the title against Norton. Great great fight. 20 title defences.

Biggest disappointment -Getting beat by Michael Spinks and not equalling Marciano's 49-0.

Best KO - The KO against Evangelista. Going backwards with his hands down he throws a quick right straight through the guard and its all over.

What other HW in history they would have struggled with most - Struggling a bit with this as I think he matches up quite well against most. I agree with walshb and his picks of Foreman, Liston and prime Ali. I can see them beating him but can also see him winning. Personally wouldn't include Tyson though.

Overall impact on the division - Top 5 heavy for me. May even be the next best after my concrete 2 of Ali and Louis. Great fighter with a vast array of skills and a lengthy title reign. 9/10

Maravilla33

walshb wrote: »

Best KO? To get off the floor after a wicked hit from Shavers and then KO Shavers later on.

It really was something that he recovered from that shot let alone went onto win. There's 3 heavyweight punches where I just go wow I cant believe he survived that. Shavers vs Holmes. Fraziers hook that dropped Ali and that Uppercut that Lewis hit Vitali with.

walshb

Maravilla33 wrote: »

It really was something that he recovered from that shot let alone went onto win. There's 3 heavyweight punches where I just go wow I cant believe he survived that. Shavers vs Holmes. Fraziers hook that dropped Ali and that Uppercut that Lewis hit Vitali with.

Add in the whopper Shavers hit Ali with in rd 2. Really wobbled Ali, and withing a second Ali was calling Shavers in:eek:

I must check youtube, but Holmes landed an uppercut in close, against the ring post, on I believe, Mike Weaver, in 1979. Hell of a shot, that dropped Weaver too. Think it was 11th or 12th rd. Anyway, he stopped Weaver in the next round.

As to Tyson: No, bad bad match. Larry hadn't the power or the foot speed here, and he could be tagged, and clean too. If he had Ali's foot speed I could see him win. He does not. Logic points to a Tyson KO.

Larry may well score, land consistently and be leading, but Tyson is ONE clean shot from ending this, or turning it around drastically.

They met in 1988 when Larry was past his best, but really, was his chin suddenly glass? No, it was not. He simply got caught clean by a murderous hitter, and his chin let him down. Yes, he got up, but it was now Tyson pursuing him, not Snipes or Shavers, who ended up getting the snot kicked out of them after the knockdowns. No way Larry gets up and miraculosuly kicks the snot out of a rampaging Tyson.

walshb

I would also add in a peak Dempsey and Louis as major threats to Holmes. Heavy heavy hitters with ferocity and speed are very dangerous to Larry. His chin will only protect hi, so much. His chin is good, but it needs to be pure granite, either that or he needs to have Ali's foot speed, and reflexes to ride a shot and take the sting from a shot. He does not have the foot speed or the required reflexes to convince me.

Maravilla33

walshb wrote: »

As to Tyson: No, bad bad match. Larry hadn't the power or the foot speed here, and he could be tagged, and clean too. If he had Ali's foot speed I could see him win. He does not. Logic points to a Tyson KO.

Larry may well score, land consistently and be leading, but Tyson is ONE clean shot from ending this, or turning it around drastically.

They met in 1988 when Larry was past his best, but really, was his chin suddenly glass? No, it was not. He simply got caught clean by a murderous hitter, and his chin let him down. Yes, he got up, but it was now Tyson pursuing him, not Snipes or Shavers, who ended up getting the snot kicked out of them after the knockdowns. No way Larry gets up and miraculosuly kicks the snot out of a rampaging Tyson.

There's a lot of snot getting kicked about up there ^^^

I agree that Larry's chin didn't all of a sudden turn to glass. But alot of the things that had made him a great fighter had started to wane. He'd been out of the ring for a while and came back purely for the money imo. While he never had Alis footspeed he had good lateral movement and fought on his toes something he couldn't have done in his late 30s.

I think its become the norm these days to say anyone with a good jab, sturdy chin and who isn't afraid of Tyson beats him. I disagree with this over simplification but these 3 things would help Holmes to beat him. As we all know his jab was something else. Throw in a 10 inch reach advantage and a pretty mean uppercut and he has the tools. Whilst I wouldn't be overly surprised to see Tyson beat Holmes I'd favour Holmes to win this one more often than not.