One step closer for humanist weddings...

Sleepy

The state takes a step closer to ending the discrimination against those of us who don't conform to DeValera's religious beliefs...

irishtimes.com wrote:

Bill proposes full legal status for humanist weddings

DEAGLÁN de BRÉADÚN, Political Correspondent

THE GOVERNMENT is expected to agree today to back legislation giving humanists the same status as organised religions and civil registrars in conducting marriage ceremonies.

Minister for Social Protection Joan Burton is due to ask her ministerial colleagues to support the Civil Registration (Amendment) Bill at this morning’s Cabinet meeting.

The legislation was introduced in the Seanad as a Private Members’ Bill by Trinity College Senator Ivana Bacik and is due to pass final stages in the Upper House tomorrow.

The Bill proposes to amend the Civil Registration Act 2004, which regulates the registration of civil marriages.

The 2004 Act stipulates that, apart from Health Service Executive registrars, only a member of a “religious body” may celebrate legal marriages.

This is defined as “an organised group of people, members of which meet regularly for common religious worship”.

This includes organisations such as the Pagan Federation Ireland and the Spiritualist Union of Ireland, which have obtained registration under the Act.

But the definition excludes members of the Humanist Association of Ireland, who currently conduct humanist wedding ceremonies even though these are not legally recognised.

The Bill proposes to extend the right to conduct civil marriages to nonreligious groups such as the HAI. A group of this nature must be a “philosophical and nonconfessional body”, have been performing marriage ceremonies for at least five years, and at least 20 couples must have participated in the ceremony.

Once the Bill has passed through the Seanad tomorrow, it will proceed to the Dáil, where it is expected to be introduced by Ms Burton.

Brian Whiteside of the HAI said that, in the past, it had been “left out in the cold” but persisted in its efforts to obtain the right to solemnise marriages and have “parity of esteem” with religious bodies.

There had been “no real progress” until the change of government last year, when Ms Bacik agreed to take up their cause.

“As the law stands presently a couple cannot have a legally binding, nonreligious marriage ceremony on a Saturday, as the State registrars work only Monday to Friday,” he added.

The proportion of couples choosing a non-religious, civil wedding ceremony in Ireland has increased from 6 per cent in 1996 to more than 23 per cent in 2006, according to the Central Statistics Office.

Humanism is defined as “an ethical philosophy of life, based on a concern for humanity, which combines reason with compassion”.

The HAI has nine accredited celebrants who conducted 153 marriage ceremonies last year.

lazygal

I married in a humanist ceremony last year. People still say it was the most personal ceremony they were ever at and really enjoyed it. Delighted to see steps being taken so there'll be no need for a seperate civil ceremony.

Misticles

Excuse my ignorance but what is a humanist ceremony?

Sleepy

A civil wedding ceremony carried out by the humanist society. They're in favour of reason, ethics, and justice,rejecting supernatural and religious dogma as a basis for morality and decision-making. It's kinda like a "church" for atheists/agnostics

At present, only religions are permitted to carry out weddings on the weekend as the HSE only work Monday to Friday. For those of us who don't want a religious wedding, this means either having a midweek wedding, having a separate "legal wedding" from your ceremony and celebration, or (as I'm doing myself) using the likes of Tom Colton and the spiritualists who, while recognised as a religion by the HSE, are happy to carry out a non-religious wedding at the weekend.

DixNeuf

I thought those guys and anyone else on the current register could only carry out legally binding religious weddings? Isn't that why they have a licence and the humanists don't?

I thought every legally recognised ceremony had to be in line with the religious beliefs of the organisation carrying it out? Apart from the HSE of course

Sleepy

Nope, they just have to be a religious organisation. If they're happy to carry out a marriage without any reference to religion, they can. Do you think the Irish Spiritualists Society would be carrying out so many weddings otherwise?!

Tomk1

Excellent & about fracking time, wouldn't & didn't happen under FF rule. Thanks OP

Janey_Mac

Fingers crossed it'll go through in time for us. Hoping between finding a celebrant and the weather we'll manage an outdoor ceremony.

hoodwinked

My mum got married with a humanist celebration (legally she had to go to the registry office the day before) and i thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever,

not only was the ceremony lovely, but she couldnt have a catholic ceremony and was hindered because of that, never mind non religious people, the ones who WERE married and got a divorce tend to be forgotten, or its assumed because they did it once and failed that they'll have a hidden away midweek HSE wedding? thats not fair. (and when you add that list to the non religious its amazing nothing has been done about it)

now she's stuck with two dates in her head, the day she actually got married and the day of the ceremony,


i think its about time humanists are allowed to conduct official marriages!

lazygal

hoodwinked wrote: »

My mum got married with a humanist celebration (legally she had to go to the registry office the day before) and i thought it was the most ridiculous thing ever,

not only was the ceremony lovely, but she couldnt have a catholic ceremony and was hindered because of that, never mind non religious people, the ones who WERE married and got a divorce tend to be forgotten, or its assumed because they did it once and failed that they'll have a hidden away midweek HSE wedding? thats not fair. (and when you add that list to the non religious its amazing nothing has been done about it)

now she's stuck with two dates in her head, the day she actually got married and the day of the ceremony,


i think its about time humanists are allowed to conduct official marriages!

We have two dates, but its all good! Two anniversaries, two gifts, its win-win!

jackofalltrades

hoodwinked wrote: »

not only was the ceremony lovely, but she couldnt have a catholic ceremony and was hindered because of that, never mind non religious people, the ones who WERE married and got a divorce tend to be forgotten, or its assumed because they did it once and failed that they'll have a hidden away midweek HSE wedding? thats not fair. (and when you add that list to the non religious its amazing nothing has been done about it)

Yeah, never mind the non religious people who are working hard to resolve the issue that you are complaining about. And what's so bad about a civil wedding?

hoodwinked

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Yeah, never mind the non religious people who are working hard to resolve the issue that you are complaining about. And what's so bad about a civil wedding?

what i meant is if you take the non-religious out of it, there are still religious people who for whatever reasons, have separated found someone they wish to marry and have to go the civil route, if you add the large numbers of people in this bracket to the numbers of people in the non-religious bracket, then Humanists not being allowed conduct the ceremony is ridiculous when such a large proportion of the population are calling for change!

the only bad thing about a civil wedding is that you are forced to go midweek and you are restricted to where, now they are opening this up but it was atrocious that civil weddings were hidden away at the registry office when in Ireland especially we have so many gorgeous locations e.g castles, beaches..etc

also you SHOULD be allowed get married on a saturday/sunday if you want but the HSE won't allow it as they dont work these days.

JKM

Just for those of you who are interested in the initial topic of the thread; HAI published an article on their website on Friday updating the situation regarding the Civil Registration (Amendment) Bill. It looks like, all going well, it may be law in next few months!

This would be great news for me and my OH as we are planning our marriage for this December and would really prefer not to have to do two seperate days.

Sleepy

Full Article for those on mobile devices:

humanism.ie wrote:

LEGAL HUMANIST WEDDINGS IN IRELAND – NEARLY A REALITY!

What an exciting week it’s been! After many years of campaigning we are nearing our goal of gaining legal status for Humanist weddings in Ireland.
After years of disappointment and being left out in the cold we eventually began to think that we might achieve this ambition when Fianna Fail lost power early last year and Labour formed part of the new administration. We engaged with Labour who understood and agreed with our agenda.

Ivana Bacik, who is the perfect combination of Lawyer/Senator/Atheist, was our champion. She introduced an amendment to the 2004 Civil Registration Bill in the Seanad in November 2011. This passed second stage in the Seanad on 10th November.
Since November the technical aspects of the amendment have been worked on to meet the requirements of both the Government and the Chief Registrar. The law as it stood (indeed as it still stands pending completion of this legislation) allows only state registrars and representatives from religious bodies to conduct legal marriage ceremonies. The question was: should the Humanists be “named” in the Bill or should it be a general group that would include the Humanists? After much to-ing and fro-ing the decision was made to allow “philosophical non-confessional” groups, who satisfied certain requirements, to be added to those who could conduct legal ceremonies. This phrase was plucked from the Lisbon Treaty and seemed to fit the bill in this case.

The requirements are that such a group must have as part of its purpose the conducting of wedding ceremonies. They must have been conducting these ceremonies for at least five years and be able to demonstrate that at least twenty couples have had such ceremonies, one of which must have been over five years ago; these couples must also have had legal ceremonies. These requirements can be met by the HAI but not, at present, by any other group. So, whereas the bill is not exclusive to Humanists, in effect as of now it is.

The Bill came before the Seanad for its final stages on Wednesday of this week and passed unopposed. Fifteen members of the HAI were in the public gallery and there was a great feeling of Ireland growing up and becoming something of a real republic.
The Bill must go before the Dail but, following a cabinet meeting on Tuesday, full government support is assured and the safe passage of the Bill is, we are told, a foregone conclusion. The ambition is that it will be law before the politicians go on their long summer holidays.

If they have completed this piece of legislation to our satisfaction I think we’ll gladly let them have their holiday!
Brian Whiteside

If they're legally able to perform ceremonies by next February, I will certainly be considering using them). Though, I must say, in some ways, I'm still a little disappointed in the wording being chosen in that it effectively just adds the humanists to the list of "acceptable bodies to nominate" rather than really opening the field for other individuals or organisations to conduct legal marriage ceremonies. IMO, it should simply be a matter of attending a training course on how to carry out the legal paperwork and submit same to the relevant dept of the HSE and getting licensed to carry out weddings rather than being part of an "approved" organisation.

I believe people are just as entitled to hold their legal wedding ceremony according to whatever belief system they choose and that a choice to hold a Jedi, Pastafarian, Betazoid or Dothraki wedding is just as valid as the choice to marry in a Catholic Church or registry office (although a Dothraki wedding would have to be considered a rather dull affair if it wanted to remain legal )

iguana

Keep this thread to the discussion of humanist wedding ceremonies please. If anyone wants to debate the religious theory they are welcome to do so on the appropriate Religion and Spirituality sub-forum, Humanities or even After Hours.

Gatica

Sleepy wrote: »

If they're legally able to perform ceremonies by next February, I will certainly be considering using them). Though, I must say, in some ways, I'm still a little disappointed in the wording being chosen in that it effectively just adds the humanists to the list of "acceptable bodies to nominate" rather than really opening the field for other individuals or organisations to conduct legal marriage ceremonies. IMO, it should simply be a matter of attending a training course on how to carry out the legal paperwork and submit same to the relevant dept of the HSE and getting licensed to carry out weddings rather than being part of an "approved" organisation.

It's a shame they don't do this alright, but small steps, and maybe we'll get somewhere in time. Friends in Canada were married by a close friend of the family, so lovely and personal (e.g. like Joey in "Friends"), hopefully in a decade or so we'll have that too...


PS: Thanks, Iguana, that was annoying sidetracking of the thread!

Sleepy

Oh, I'd love that myself but, while I'll applaud the small steps, I'd question how much more work would have been required to implement such a scheme than simply a step towards one.

Bride2012

That's brilliant news, very exciting! I'm having a humanist ceremony next month and they're so great to deal with. I can't wait. Would have loved not to need two days, legal and ceremony but delighted that it's opening up as an option for others.