Calculating initial handicap

splashthecash

Hi all - first post in the golf forum. I'm getting into golf at the moment and say I was to join a club, how do they come up with my handicap (assuming this is the first time I've joined a club). Is there a default someone like me is given or does someone follow me around for a typical round to see what I'm like?

This is a total noob question but any info would be much appreciated.

Also, do I have to join a club to get an official handicap (is it called a green card or some thing like that) so I could play on courses that request that all players have one

Thanks!

newport2

You play 3 rounds of golf at the course you've joined and hand in the cards. They calculate your handicap from these, disregarding any scores worse than double bogies (I think). You then have an official GUI handicap allowing you to play in competitions.

I've heard some societies claim they give official handicaps without joining clubs, but not sure of details on this.

Jul3s

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all - first post in the golf forum. I'm getting into golf at the moment and say I was to join a club, how do they come up with my handicap (assuming this is the first time I've joined a club). Is there a default someone like me is given or does someone follow me around for a typical round to see what I'm like?

This is a total noob question but any info would be much appreciated.

Also, do I have to join a club to get an official handicap (is it called a green card or some thing like that) so I could play on courses that request that all players have one

Thanks!

To get a GUI handicap you first have join a golf club and then you must play 3 rounds of golf with a full member who has a GUI handicap, you then submit those cards to the handicap secretary/committee and you are then allocated a GUI handicap.
There is a formulae (I'm not sure exactly what it is) for calculating handicaps but TBH you shouldn't really be concerned too much with the exact details, all you have to do is play with honesty when you are playing for your 3 cards.

Good luck and enjoy the addiction.

dublindave27

Your handicap is calculated by submitting 3 cards alright however you handicap is based on your best card of the 3 and not the average of the 3, so e.g the par of the course is 72, and card 1 you shoot 82, card 2 92 card 3 102 , then believe it or not you will be probably allocated a handicap of 10..! crazy system but that is the system maybe 12, but letter of the law would be 10..!

Jazzzman

dublindave27 wrote: »

Your handicap is calculated by submitting 3 cards alright however you handicap is based on your best card of the 3 and not the average of the 3, so e.g the par of the course is 72, and card 1 you shoot 82, card 2 92 card 3 102 , then believe it or not you will be probably allocated a handicap of 10..! crazy system but that is the system maybe 12, but letter of the law would be 10..!

I don't think that's correct.

I handed in three cards. +21, 27 and 31.

I got a handicap of 15.

One of the back 9's I shot in +6, so I wasn't too surprised with the 15 h/c.

The +31 was done is awful conditions which I also believe is factored in somehow.

It's definitely more complicated than 'best card' of the three.

dublindave27

splashthecash wrote: »

Hi all - first post in the golf forum. I'm getting into golf at the moment and say I was to join a club, how do they come up with my handicap (assuming this is the first time I've joined a club). Is there a default someone like me is given or does someone follow me around for a typical round to see what I'm like?

This is a total noob question but any info would be much appreciated.

Also, do I have to join a club to get an official handicap (is it called a green card or some thing like that) so I could play on courses that request that all players have one

Thanks!

I was just saying that's the GUI guideline I work in a golf club for the past couple of years and that's what the handicap allocation states, and you have to ring the GUI if you are entering a new member as a category 1 (0/12) obviously if you feel you can play better or worse than your initial handicap you can tell the handicap secretary this and he may subsequently amend this at his discretion but for initial handicaps purposes the best of the 3 (no higher than doubles on the card) cards is how you calculate your handicap. Took a while to type that on my phone ;-)

murphdogg11

I know a guy who recently joined one of the cheaper (distance)membership clubs & they accepted his society handicap as his official handicap. How can they do this? He is a lot better player than his society handicap!

veetwin

murphdogg11 wrote: »

I know a guy who recently joined one of the cheaper (distance)membership clubs & they accepted his society handicap as his official handicap. How can they do this? He is a lot better player than his society handicap!

Which club was that as a matter of interest?

AGC

They will disregard anything over a double and take the best front and back 9 and calculate it on that

murphdogg11

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphdogg11
I know a guy who recently joined one of the cheaper (distance)membership clubs & they accepted his society handicap as his official handicap. How can they do this? He is a lot better player than his society handicap!

Which club was that as a matter of interest?

ROK

Jul3s

murphdogg11 wrote: »

Quote:
Originally Posted by murphdogg11
I know a guy who recently joined one of the cheaper (distance)membership clubs & they accepted his society handicap as his official handicap. How can they do this? He is a lot better player than his society handicap!

Which club was that as a matter of interest?

ROK

That's unbelievable, you should report both of them to the GUI.

TheDoc

Basically it is whatever your handicap secretary gives you. And its pony.

I came back from a three year lay off and was handed in 89 94 92 and wad given 11.

On the basis I used to be off a low handicap and when I left I was 11.

It put the pressure on straight away to try avoid getting .1s back.

Another member in the know said there would be murder if he gave me a correct handicap calculated from my cards and I won prizes from i.

I xoul much rather they had just said we will give you 11 again so I could have avoided playing three rounds in a week in th **** weather to have a card in for the first big comp of the year Paddys Day

So in short
Makes no odds just what your handicap secretary marks down

_DMac_

Sorry to revive an old thread but would the breakdown below be how a handicap is calculated? In that my handicap would be 26 if I submitted 3 of the same card? obviously not going to do that just curious as to how crap I actually am at golf

slave1

All those trebles or higher will be cut back to double bogeys for a start so your "score" will actually turn out more like ~ 97, after that it will also reflect your pars but I'm not sure of the science behind that aspect, I'm sure other's will follow...

JIdontknow

From my limited knowlewdge / presumptions, anything over a double bogey is just changed to a double bogey. I can't see your card but if its then worked out as 97, they will then I imagine take off a few shots for as you get to know the course, and also may take into account the category of your handicap, so that 97 could then become a 90, on par 72 that would be handicap 18 (dogey golf, 36 points) but to be honest I wouldnt be surprised if you got a 16/17. I know someone whos cards averaged approx 97-98 and they were handed I think a 15/16 starting off, its to prevent bandits coming in in the first year and cleaning up in the competitions / majors.
Taking a 97, that equates to 29 points off 18 (worst score rounded to a double bogey), so on that reckoning you might get 18, but certainly not a 20+ handicap, they always err on the side of caution which is understandable.

To be honest it will take you a while for your handicap to level out, you may go up before you get it down again but it will level out eventually, just enjoy the golf and try not worry about handicap. Also not sure what age you are, but I often find just seeing older golfers plot and play their way around the course you can learn alot about course management, they may not be long hitters but they keep it in play all the time, which makes a big difference, and also short game / putting can always save shots, even though some people are focused on just hitting it as far and hard as they can. Main thing is to enjoy it, I know it's a cliche but its a hobby for life in which no matter what age you can still be competitive thanks to the handicap system, and great social outing too.

_DMac_

JIdontknow wrote: »

From my limited knowlewdge / presumptions, anything over a double bogey is just changed to a double bogey. I can't see your card but if its then worked out as 97, they will then I imagine take off a few shots for as you get to know the course, and also may take into account the category of your handicap, so that 97 could then become a 90, on par 72 that would be handicap 18 (dogey golf, 36 points) but to be honest I wouldnt be surprised if you got a 16/17. I know someone whos cards averaged approx 97-98 and they were handed I think a 15/16 starting off, its to prevent bandits coming in in the first year and cleaning up in the competitions / majors.
Taking a 97, that equates to 29 points off 18 (worst score rounded to a double bogey), so on that reckoning you might get 18, but certainly not a 20+ handicap, they always err on the side of caution which is understandable.

To be honest it will take you a while for your handicap to level out, you may go up before you get it down again but it will level out eventually, just enjoy the golf and try not worry about handicap. Also not sure what age you are, but I often find just seeing older golfers plot and play their way around the course you can learn alot about course management, they may not be long hitters but they keep it in play all the time, which makes a big difference, and also short game / putting can always save shots, even though some people are focused on just hitting it as far and hard as they can. Main thing is to enjoy it, I know it's a cliche but its a hobby for life in which no matter what age you can still be competitive thanks to the handicap system, and great social outing too.

You're dead right about the older guys. Honestly though its my chipping and putting that's letting me down. I can hit a lovely PW from 80 yards out onto the green but put me 30 yards from the green and I could take 2 or 3 attempts to get on. Not to worry anyway though. Was just wondering what way it worked but I'm guessing it will be 18-20 for a start off. Cheers for the replies

JIdontknow

_DMac_ wrote: »

You're dead right about the older guys. Honestly though its my chipping and putting that's letting me down. I can hit a lovely PW from 80 yards out onto the green but put me 30 yards from the green and I could take 2 or 3 attempts to get on. Not to worry anyway though. Was just wondering what way it worked but I'm guessing it will be 18-20 for a start off. Cheers for the replies

Im not a low handicapper myself (far from one) so maybe I am in no position to guide you, but what I found helped for me, was avoiding the fancy shots, the high risk reward shots, as they can go horribly wrong, I mean I would rather be constantly say 10-20 foot from a hole (take a 2 putt) , rather than 5 out of 10 times be 5 foot away (May make 1/2/3 out of the 5 depending) and 5 other times not on the greeen after duffing it (And having to repeat above two options again). Instead keep lower body steady, and just swing through and keep your head steady and also dont try dip your body to "help" the ball into the air, this can cause a thin or heavy shot, try stay stationary and just leave arms work through. I Take 5/6 quick practice swings in succession to get a feel for the swing and contact, then step in and just repeat the swing. That has worked for me as muscle memory means I tend to repeat the previous swings more often than not. If you find you catch a lot of the shots heavy behind the ball, try moving the ball position to accomodate this.

Also I found that using a standard sand wedge in the set (With forgiving sole) as opposed to a sharp leading edge wedge helped me. And also practice bump and runs where possible, these may not get the ball to within 2-3 feet of the flag, but it reduces greatly the chances or duffing or topping them, the bump and run especially even if topped slightly will just run out further or check up slightly if hit too good, but as its a short little swing not too much damage can be done usually. Might be worth trying out. This is coming from someone who struggled with short game but over the winter it has improved due to playing on soft ground, it makes the contact and swing more important as club won't bounce along surface but dig in and result in the sod going further than the ball!

As I said I am a high handicapper myself so take the above with a pinch of salt.
Sorry gone off topic, best of luck and enjoy the game, and remember the good shots!

slave1

_DMac_ wrote: »

... its my chipping and putting that's letting me down...

welcome to golf as an amateur!!!

ronnie3585

How does the handicap system work with regards to cuts?

I take it you have to score over 36pts to be cut, but do you get cut a shot for every point you're 36 or is it graduated differently?

Rikand

ronnie3585 wrote: »

How does the handicap system work with regards to cuts?

I take it you have to score over 36pts to be cut, but do you get cut a shot for every point you're 36 or is it graduated differently?

graduated differently

http://www.englandgolf.org/Handicapping.aspx?sitesectionid=129&sitesectiontitle=Handicaps+%26+Rules

^^ that should cover pretty much all you need to know. Documentation to beat the band!

Jaymemcg

Hey guys, sorry to revive this topic again but out of interest anyone know the story with birdies if they are just -1. I used to help in the handicap office of my old club so I confirm anything over a double is reduced but not many people looking for handicaps have birdies.

Any idea what handicap I will get from these cards guys? Back after 2 years off last handicap 6.7.

Par 68 SSS 66
First round: 80 (2birdies)
Second round: 76 (3birdies)
Third round: 73 (3birdies)

ForeRight

If you get more than 4 let me know when you are playing comps so I can avoid them

Jaymemcg

ForeRight wrote: »

If you get more than 4 let me know when you are playing comps so I can avoid them

Unless you want to play 4person teams?

cairny

You should get your old handicap back.

ForeRight

cairny wrote: »

You should get your old handicap back.

It would be ridiculous if he gets 7 back.

Only back after 2 years and on his third card he shoots 5 over par of the course.

Jaymemcg

ForeRight wrote: »

It would be ridiculous if he gets 7 back.

Only back after 2 years and on his third card he shoots 5 over par of the course.

I agree. I lipped everything today for that score. If they knew that if be screwed.

I think 4 or even 3 to be honest. They are alway going on the low side just in case.

Plus the handicap guy knows I've only played 8 rounds since I came back so things can only get better. But the course is very easy. I hit driver 8 iron to both par 5's saving grace is the par 3's are 180-230 yards.

cairny

ForeRight wrote: »

It would be ridiculous if he gets 7 back.

Only back after 2 years and on his third card he shoots 5 over par of the course.

SSS is 66 so he only played to his old handicap. You have to be careful both ways giving out handicaps. You have to earn cuts as you approach Cat 1 and he hasn't....yet.

Jaymemcg

cairny wrote: »

SSS is 66 so he only played to his old handicap. You have to be careful both ways giving out handicaps. You have to earn cuts as you approach Cat 1 and he hasn't....yet.

That's a good point! But then again if you given me 7 and I shot level or plus 1 which is very possible then members would be outraged!

cairny

Jaymemcg wrote: »

That's a good point! But then again if you given me 7 and I shot level or plus 1 which is very possible then members would be outraged!

Some people are easily outraged...see above :-P

If you had played those three rounds in competition you'd have gone out to 6.9. I'd leave you at your old handicap but it's possible the handicap secretary will take a different view. You won't be cut to Cat 1 though so 6 is lowest you should be given.

Jaymemcg

cairny wrote: »

Some people are easily outraged...see above :-P

If you had played those three rounds in competition you'd have gone out to 6.9. I'd leave you at your old handicap but it's possible the handicap secretary will take a different view. You won't be cut to Cat 1 though so 6 is lowest you should be given.

Or just give I eligibility to win top prize for a 5 competitions might be a better long term solution.

ForeRight

He shot to his old handicap when not playing regular and only back after 2 years.
For me that's enough to air on the side of caution with his handicap as his ability seems to be very very good.
I wouldn't give him more than 4.

cairny

ForeRight wrote: »

He shot to his old handicap when not playing regular and only back after 2 years.
For me that's enough to air on the side of caution with his handicap as his ability seems to be very very good.
I wouldn't give him more than 4.

But it's not erring on the side of caution, fellas playing off artificially low handicaps is almost as problematic as handicap builders. Means others miss out on places in tournaments etc.

I'm sure the OP will get there but it should be earned.

Jaymemcg

cairny wrote: »

But it's not erring on the side of caution, fellas playing off artificially low handicaps is almost as problematic as handicap builders. Means others miss out on places in tournaments etc.

I'm sure the OP will get there but it should be earned.

That's a very good point you make about tournament handicap qualiffers. ie: 2.4 handicap of less for x competition. I didn't factor that in. I suppose give a higher one don't allow me to win for 5 competitions and if huge disparity you can always cut big for notable scores.

Rikand

I'd give you 6.

5.5 to be safe.

The 80 will be scrapped so you'll be based on the other two.

Norfolk Enchants_

Rikand wrote: »

I'd give you 6.

5.5 to be safe.

The 80 will be scrapped so you'll be based on the other two.

Without seeing the cards it's impossible to day, but I'd imagine 5 would be the max he gets, 4.5 exact.
Also no cards are scraped, it's the eclectic best score taken from all 3 cards that is used in the calculation of a handicap (i.e if the HC sec is doing his job correctly).

Jaymemcg

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Without seeing the cards it's impossible to day, but I'd imagine 5 would be the max he gets, 4.5 exact.
Also no cards are scraped, it's the eclectic best score taken from all 3 cards that is used in the calculation of a handicap (i.e if the HC sec is doing his job correctly).

Hole index par score(1) score(2) score(3)
1. 13. 4. 4. 5. 5.
2. 1. 4. 5. 5. 5.
3. 11. 3. 3. 3. 3.
4. 15. 3. 6. 4. 3.
5. 17. 5. 5. 5. 4.
6. 5. 3. 4. 4. 4.
7. 7. 4. 5. 5. 4.
8. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4.
9. 9. 4. 5. 4. 5.
Total 34. 41. 39. 37.
10. 12. 4. 4. 5. 6.
11. 18. 5. 5. 4. 4.
12. 10. 3. 4. 5. 3.
13. 14. 3. 5. 4. 5.
14. 4. 4. 6. 5. 4.
15. 16. 3. 3. 4. 3.
16. 6. 4. 4. 3. 4.
17. 2. 4. 5. 3. 4.
18. 8. 4. 3. 4. 3.
In 34. 39. 37. 36.
Total. 68. 80. 76. 73.

Jaymemcg

Jaymemcg wrote: »

Hole index par score(1) score(2) score(3)
1. 13. 4. 4. 5. 5.
2. 1. 4. 5. 5. 5.
3. 11. 3. 3. 3. 3.
4. 15. 3. 6. 4. 3.
5. 17. 5. 5. 5. 4.
6. 5. 3. 4. 4. 4.
7. 7. 4. 5. 5. 4.
8. 3. 4. 4. 4. 4.
9. 9. 4. 5. 4. 5.
Total 34. 41. 39. 37.
10. 12. 4. 4. 5. 6.
11. 18. 5. 5. 4. 4.
12. 10. 3. 4. 5. 3.
13. 14. 3. 5. 4. 5.
14. 4. 4. 6. 5. 4.
15. 16. 3. 3. 4. 3.
16. 6. 4. 4. 3. 4.
17. 2. 4. 5. 3. 4.
18. 8. 4. 3. 4. 3.
In 34. 39. 37. 36.
Total. 68. 80. 76. 73.

Thanks for all the help guys btw. When I get the handicap I will let ye know what I get for comparisons.

PARlance

I'll split the difference between Rik and Norfolk and go for 5.0

cairny

You're not allowed award a Category 1 handicap without prior approval from the GUI, and they wouldn't give such approval on the OPs card I believe. The minimum handicap he can be given in practice therefore should be 5.5.

PARlance

cairny wrote: »

You're not allowed award a Category 1 handicap without prior approval from the GUI, and they wouldn't give such approval on the OPs card I believe. The minimum handicap he can be given in practice therefore should be 5.5.

Is it not HC's of 4 and below that are managed by the GUI. i.e 4.5 being the minimum without their involvement? m

cairny

PARlance wrote: »

Is it not HC's of 4 and below that are managed by the GUI. i.e 4.5 being the minimum without their involvement? m

Category 1 is 5 and lower isn't it? The rule is you need permission to award a Cat 1 handicap.

Norfolk Enchants_

cairny wrote: »

You're not allowed award a Category 1 handicap without prior approval from the GUI, and they wouldn't give such approval on the OPs card I believe. The minimum handicap he can be given in practice therefore should be 5.5.

If approval is nescessary (I'm so sure it is), it's only a formality in getting it.

cairny

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

If approval is nescessary (I'm so sure it is), it's only a formality in getting it.

You're not so sure based on what?

Norfolk Enchants_

cairny wrote: »

You're not so sure based on what?

Based on it makes no sense, and if don't make sense it usually ain't true.

cairny

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Based on it makes no sense, and if don't make sense it usually ain't true.

Ah, you're guessing.

Norfolk Enchants_

cairny wrote: »

Ah, you're guessing.

Yes, like yourself:rolleyes:.
Perhaps you'd like to provide evidence to back up your claim seen as it you who made it.

cairny

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Yes, like yourself:rolleyes:.
Perhaps you'd like to provide evidence to back up your claim seen as it you who made it.

No problem/ Congu Part 4 Clause 16 f

Btw your comment about the cards being assessed on an eclectic score is also incorrect. Not sure I'd be trusting anymore of your hunches

Myksyk

Yes, cat 1 (5.4 and below) h/cs need GUI clearance before being assigned.

The assigning of initial handicaps is an art not a science and the committee can take lots of things into account. The starting point and most important is the best of their three cards (not an average or a mix). I think it's fair to say that people will err on the side of caution as it is generally seen to be a 'better' thing to assign a wrong low handicap than a wrong high handicap ... the usual cry is 'what if he wins the Captains?'. We had this as recently as last week!

Good committees will usually try to find out what the guy is like from other sources ... like those who have played with him, or signed his card (if they're known members) or previous handicaps or society handicaps etc.

Some clubs have an unwritten and rarely challenged rule not to assign initial handicaps above 18 or 20. The downside is that real beginners are disadvantaged by this but it is becoming much easier to upwardly review people who are uncompetitive off their handicap and our regional branch will always accept any recommendation we make in this regard.

Generally, if they are unsure a committee will assign a conservative handicap.

Jaymemcg

Myksyk wrote: »

Yes, cat 1 (5.4 and below) h/cs need GUI clearance before being assigned.

The assigning of initial handicaps is an art not a science and the committee can take lots of things into account. The starting point and most important is the best of their three cards (not an average or a mix). I think it's fair to say that people will err on the side of caution as it is generally seen to be a 'better' thing to assign a wrong low handicap than a wrong high handicap ... the usual cry is 'what if he wins the Captains?'. We had this as recently as last week!

Good committees will usually try to find out what the guy is like from other sources ... like those who have played with him, or signed his card (if they're known members) or previous handicaps or society handicaps etc.

Some clubs have an unwritten and rarely challenged rule not to assign initial handicaps above 18 or 20. The downside is that real beginners are disadvantaged by this but it is becoming much easier to upwardly review people who are uncompetitive off their handicap and our regional branch will always accept any recommendation we make in this regard.

Generally, if they are unsure a committee will assign a conservative handicap.

Then would you suggest that I give my old GUI number (btw I have been category 1 before) and my society handicap (3 but skewed due to a lot of beginners).

Norfolk Enchants_

cairny wrote: »

No problem/ Congu Part 4 Clause 16 f

Btw your comment about the cards being assessed on an eclectic score is also incorrect. Not sure I'd be trusting anymore of your hunches

Hunches keep people honest;) and I hope you don't get too dizzy up there in your ivory tower:pac::D.
Thanks for clearing that up all the same, but my point above re: it's only a formality still stands.
While there currently is no specific clause regarding eclectic scores in determining an intitial HC, there probably should be, if for no other reason than it's more reliable than "information from peers" for example.

cairny

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Hunches keep people honest;) and I hope you don't get too dizzy up there in your ivory tower:pac::D.
Thanks for clearing that up all the same, but my point above re: it's only a formality still stands.
While there currently is no specific clause regarding eclectic scores in determining an intitial HC, there probably should be, if for no other reason than it's more reliable than "information from peers" for example.

Let's be honest you don't really know if it's just a formality do you?

As to whether eclectic scores should be used that's just moot, they're not used and at a minimum you should understand the current system before recommending changes.