Extension to a 1958 Extension

isaos

Hello:
I was recently told by a Engineer that I could ad up to 40m2 to an extension build before 1958, without planning permission. Could anyone confirm? the old - and new extension are at the rear of the house, no neighbours, only ground floor.
My other question is that the initial extension (20m2) is very poor: thin concrete wall and poor foundation, all very damp, no insulation. Can I re build the extension + extend by another 30m2?
I have proof of the age of the initial extension.
Thanks!

sydthebeat

isaos wrote: »

Hello:
I was recently told by a Engineer that I could ad up to 40m2 to an extension build before 1958, without planning permission. Could anyone confirm? !

yes

anything built prior to oct 1964 is deemed to be the original structure from a planning point of view.

isaos wrote: »

Hello:

My other question is that the initial extension (20m2) is very poor: thin concrete wall and poor foundation, all very damp, no insulation. Can I re build the extension + extend by another 30m2?
!

tricky one.
you can demolish part of a habitable dwelling for the purposes to adding an extension which would be exempted under class 1. That reads as though the maximum you can extend after demolition is 40 sq m.

id suggest you get clarification from your local authority on that one.

personally i dont think you can do what you suggest.

SI 235 of 2008.

Class 50 has been amended to now explicitly state that in relation to
(b) The demolition of part of a habitable house in connection with the provision of an extension or porch in accordance with Class 1 or 7, respectively, of this Part of prescribed Schedule or in accordance with a permission for an extension or porch under the Act.
that

1. No such building or buildings shall abut on
within the curtilage of— another building in separate ownership.

2. The cumulative floor area of any such
building, or buildings, shall not exceed:
(a) in the case of a building, or buildings
within the curtilage of a house, 40
square metres, and
(b) in all other cases, 100 square metres.

3. No such demolition shall be carried out to
facilitate development of any class prescribed for the purposes of section 176 of the Act.

isaos

Thanks for that.. it definitely needs further enquiry.

isaos

sydthebeat wrote: »

tricky one.
you can demolish part of a habitable dwelling for the purposes to adding an extension which would be exempted under class 1. That reads as though the maximum you can extend after demolition is 40 sq m.

id suggest you get clarification from your local authority on that one.

personally i dont think you can do what you suggest.

Would you know when a building is considered "demolished"? if you open your extension on two sides, widen it and extend it, for example, would you say the existing extension is still there?

Mellor

sydthebeat wrote: »

tricky one.
you can demolish part of a habitable dwelling for the purposes to adding an extension which would be exempted under class 1. That reads as though the maximum you can extend after demolition is 40 sq m.

I not sure it does tbh. At least not always.
The 40sq.m limit mentioned in class 50 relates to the maximum area you can demolish from a house. So the two exempt processes are independant and it basically comes down to how the extension is measure for class one.
If it all new work, then it would be 40sq.m after demolishing.
But if its measured as extension/increase of floor area, then its existing area plus 40sq.m

I think the application of this will depend on the exact situation and I can think of some that should fall into each group off the top of my head. Ultimately, it matters most what your local authority ahve to say.

My advice seek a section 5 declaration. A good submission prepared by a professional, with the right language, and reference to SIs, and clear diagrams has a better chance of succeeding than just a simple enquiry.

sydthebeat

Mellor wrote: »

I not sure it does tbh. At least not always.

i agree that its a tricky situation... however it does actually read quite clear for me...

The demolition of part of a habitable house in connection with the provision of an extension or porch in accordance with Class 1

the SI is saying that you can demolish part of a habitable house up to 40 sq m, for the provision of an extension exempt from permission up to 40 sq m.

it doesnt say you can demolish 40 sq m, rebuilt that 40 sqm, and extend beyond by another 40 sq m.

but definitely a section 5 declaration should be applied for

isaos

Thanks for these info, will follow your advices!

Mellor

sydthebeat wrote: »

the SI is saying that you can demolish part of a habitable house up to 40 sq m, for the provision of an extension exempt from permission up to 40 sq m.

it doesnt say you can demolish 40 sq m, rebuilt that 40 sqm, and extend beyond by another 40 sq m.

That doesn't change anything I said and I specifically said it comes down to applcuiatino of class 1.

IMO the following still applies. New work vrs new floro area.

Mellor wrote: »

... it basically comes down to how the extension is measure for class one.
If it all new work, then it would be 40sq.m after demolishing.
But if its measured as extension/increase of floor area, then its existing area plus 40sq.m

What if one is jsut removing walls but not necessarily floor space. Basically there are too many varibles and I can see soem cases ogoing one way and others the opposite.



Anyway, we are all agree. Section 5 is best.
OP, if you could let us know how you get on with the section 5 that would be great.

Victor

You could just apply for planning permission.