531 for Powerlifting - what % for singles after 531 sets?

BossArky

A few years ago I spent 6 months on the original 531 training program. That's the one that is not particularly tuned towards peaking for a powerlifting meet and more focused on a mix of long term conditioning, hypertrophy and strength work.

Since then Wendler has revised 531 and published 531 for powerlifters.
Anyone tried it? Reading a few articles thrown up by google I see that weeks 1 and 2 are switched and you add a few heavy singles on week 1 and week 3.

Questions:

• How many singles do you do on weeks 1 and 3 after the basic 531 sets/reps? Info on the net varies.
• What % are these singles on weeks 1 and 3?
• Anyone put in a decent about of time on 531 for powerlifters and care to share results? I'm talking at least 6 cycles...

Cheers.

the drifter

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

This guy did a year on it. Been reading the origional ebook a bit lately myself.

deadlybuzzman

according to the man himself the exact number is "a few" so I guess its a matter of going by how you feel, which is what I liked about 5/3/1, after you do the basics you can mix it up from week to week.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/531_reloaded

Dathai

the drifter wrote: »

http://531year.blogspot.com/2012/04/final-post.html

This guy did a year on it. Been reading the origional ebook a bit lately myself.

Looks like the most gains he got was through running smolov at the end. He got fairly built throughout the program though.

Hanley

Dathai wrote: »

Looks like the most gains he got was through running smolov at the end. He got fairly built throughout the program though.

Hahahahah what??! OMG someone please tell me this is true. What happened? I'm not bothered reading his log because I hate 5/3/1, but that would make my day if true.

the drifter

Hanley wrote: »

Hahahahah what??! OMG someone please tell me this is true. What happened? I'm not bothered reading his log because I hate 5/3/1, but that would make my day if true.

it pretty much is...

his vids even say smolov test :P

Paudee

lawl

the drifter

BossArky wrote: »

That's the one that is not particularly tuned towards peaking for a powerlifting meet and more focused on a mix of long term conditioning, hypertrophy and strength work.

i think this is something that most people forget about 5/3/1. it aint a balls out get me a massive squat program

smolov is designed to make you appreciate cheap vodka and get a massive squat.

run 12 weeks of 5/3/1 and 12 weeks of smolov...id imagie you would feel a bit better coming out of 5/3/1, maybe not as decent a squat though

Dathai

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/hardcore-look-at-jim-wendlers-5-3-1-powerlifting-system.html

For anyone who's looking for more info. Had a glance at it and spotted the 5/3/1 and Westside Hybrid. Jesus wept.

kevpants

5/3/1 is the program Jim Wendler is using to make himself smaller and weaker by the looks of it. His latest vid shows a 225kg squat for 6 reps and he's gassing on rep 5 and 6. Without sounding like an internet troll I could probably just about manage that.

I really don't see how this program is still getting the attention it is. From what I can see it has a track record of getting young guys to squat or pull 8 plates (180kg) which is a nice milestone. I really can't recall anyone actually progressing up to more advanced poundages on it.

In my opinion it's just not mental enough. It's all about leavinig reps in the tank and not pushing it. Jim Wendler didn't take that approach to get as strong as he once was I'm sure, dunno why you'd copy what he's doing as his strength gradually declines.

J-Fit

kevpants wrote: »

5/3/1 is the program Jim Wendler is using to make himself smaller and weaker by the looks of it. His latest vid shows a 225kg squat for 6 reps and he's gassing on rep 5 and 6. Without sounding like an internet troll I could probably just about manage that.

I really don't see how this program is still getting the attention it is. From what I can see it has a track record of getting young guys to squat or pull 8 plates (180kg) which is a nice milestone. I really can't recall anyone actually progressing up to more advanced poundages on it.

In my opinion it's just not mental enough. It's all about leavinig reps in the tank and not pushing it. Jim Wendler didn't take that approach to get as strong as he once was I'm sure, dunno why you'd copy what he's doing as his strength gradually declines.

That's quite a presumptuous comment in my opinion. How many variables in any one person's life could be contributing to their performance in the weight room? This could range from relationship stress, lack of motivation, desire to disengage from heavy training for a while. I don't know, maybe you read his training log/blog and are privy to info that I don't have but maybe he has ramped up his conditioning sessions or decided to reduce the amount of carbs in his diet? I'm just picking things out of the sky here but any are possible and the success of any method doesn't sink or swim based on the experiences of one person. There are a lot of 531 success stories out there and my opinion is that the programme can be as 'mental' as you like by going full out on your top sets (every time) and making the assistance work heavy and challenging. There's nothing stopping you programming in some speed work/extra heavy sets at 90%+ to increase intensity and I really think '531' just refers to the loading protocol on the 3/4 main lifts.

I also don't know why you put a 180kg limit on what can be achieved by young (what is young?) lifters. It's an odd observation and I've seen far better strength gains achieved than that. Maybe you didn't have the best experience using 531 but I really think you misrepresented the programme there. I'm gravely offended

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

5/3/1 is the program Jim Wendler is using to make himself smaller and weaker by the looks of it. His latest vid shows a 225kg squat for 6 reps and he's gassing on rep 5 and 6. Without sounding like an internet troll I could probably just about manage that.

I really don't see how this program is still getting the attention it is. From what I can see it has a track record of getting young guys to squat or pull 8 plates (180kg) which is a nice milestone. I really can't recall anyone actually progressing up to more advanced poundages on it.

In my opinion it's just not mental enough. It's all about leavinig reps in the tank and not pushing it. Jim Wendler didn't take that approach to get as strong as he once was I'm sure, dunno why you'd copy what he's doing as his strength gradually declines.

150% this. ALL this. It's ridiculous.

Hanley

J-Fit wrote: »

That's quite a presumptuous comment in my opinion. How many variables in any one person's life could be contributing to their performance in the weight room? This could range from relationship stress, lack of motivation, desire to disengage from heavy training for a while. I don't know, maybe you read his training log/blog and are privy to info that I don't have but maybe he has ramped up his conditioning sessions or decided to reduce the amount of carbs in his diet? I'm just picking things out of the sky here but any are possible and the success of any method doesn't sink or swim based on the experiences of one person. There are a lot of 531 success stories out there and my opinion is that the programme can be as 'mental' as you like by going full out on your top sets (every time) and making the assistance work heavy and challenging. There's nothing stopping you programming in some speed work/extra heavy sets at 90%+ to increase intensity and I really think '531' just refers to the loading protocol on the 3/4 main lifts.

I also don't know why you put a 180kg limit on what can be achieved by young (what is young?) lifters. It's an odd observation and I've seen far better strength gains achieved than that. Maybe you didn't have the best experience using 531 but I really think you misrepresented the programme there. I'm gravely offended

I think you're the one misrepresenting it tbh.

You're adding stuff in that would make it better, but it's not 5/3/1 anymore

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

I think you're the one misrepresenting it tbh.

You're adding stuff in that would make it better, but it's not 5/3/1 anymore

Maybe so. I'm doing somewhat of a hybrid in that case. I still think the 531 loading protocol is a well thought out system that delivers what it says it will, namely strength.

Hanley

J-Fit wrote: »

Maybe so. I'm doing somewhat of a hybrid in that case. I still think the 531 loading protocol is a well thought out system that delivers what it says it will, namely strength.

I dunno, anyone I know with any significant amount of experience that tried it has failed miserably. Maybe we were just misapplying it, or maybe it's not suitable for those with multi year training exp.

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

I dunno, anyone I know with any significant amount of experience that tried it has failed miserably. Maybe we were just misapplying it, or maybe it's not suitable for those with multi year training exp.

My best lifts have all been off the back of it so I'm addicted to it. It does defy logic though because my top sets almost always outside the <6 rep range.

the drifter

J-Fit wrote: »

My best lifts have all been off the back of it so I'm addicted to it. It does defy logic though because my top sets almost always outside the <6 rep range.

are you running the origiona 5-3-1 or 5-3-1 for powerlifting?

J-Fit

the drifter wrote: »

are you running the origiona 5-3-1 or 5-3-1 for powerlifting?

Not really.

Goes like this:

A: Explosive jumps/bench throws
B: 531
C: 4x5 sets of approx 80% 1RM on core lift
Assistance (RDLs, OAR, Chins, GMs etc.)
E: "Core"

Hanley

J-Fit wrote: »

Not really.

Goes like this:

A: Explosive jumps/bench throws
B: 531
C: 4x5 sets of approx 80% 1RM on core lift
Assistance (RDLs, OAR, Chins, GMs etc.)
E: "Core"

Is that one of the programs in the original 5/3/1, or is "B" the only part you've taken?

J-Fit

Hanley wrote: »

Is that one of the programs in the original 5/3/1, or is "B" the only part you've taken?

That 80% should read 80% of 531 max.

It's definitely not an original 531, I put in the extras that I need to make it work for me. But from my interpretation of 531, it is customisable like so.

EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong but to me "531" is just the B part.

deadlybuzzman

J-Fit wrote: »

My best lifts have all been off the back of it so I'm addicted to it. It does defy logic though because my top sets almost always outside the <6 rep range.

I found that for me progress only ever came when going give or take balls out in the top set for between 6 and 10 reps. If I did less than 5 reps progress would stall or even go backwards.
In fairness looking back expecting that I could do just 3 reps, then stop and not do that lift again for 7-10 days and expect to be stronger was just daft-however, repping it out to the point of seeing stars and on 1 occasion to what felt like concussion and then not deadlifting for a week or more did work.

J-Fit

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

I found that for me progress only ever came when going give or take balls out in the top set for between 6 and 10 reps. If I did less than 5 reps progress would stall or even go backwards.
In fairness looking back expecting that I could do just 3 reps, then stop and not do that lift again for 7-10 days and expect to be stronger was just daft-however, repping it out to the point of seeing stars and on 1 occasion to what felt like concussion and then not deadlifting for a week or more did work.

That's pretty much how I go with things. I've been close to blacking out on squats but obviously that's not something I recommend to anyone. My final sets of squats and deads, but not bench, take almost 10 mins to recover to the point that I can begin my assistance work. To me, 5 reps is fine if that's what your max was but if you could have squeezed 8 or 9, 5 is just a form of detraining. Think about it, 5 reps on 85% of 90% of your 1rm is the equivalent of 5 reps at 75% of 1rm. Nobody will get strong at that level. Something maximal has to be done like 75% for 12. Do that a month later with more weight and you officially got stronger.

I've seen guys stand still and even go backwards because they didn't have the balls to let it all hang on the final set. For me that's what it's all about. I often find myself thinking about it the day before and actually getting excited about the final set. As I move up through the warm up and work sets, my heart starts beating faster due to a combination of nerves and anticipation and when I finally get there I just unload. It's quite nerve wracking and it requires that level of stimulation to really get the most out of the set.

I'm just a huge fan of the stepwise approach to 531 that for the most part will prevent any form of overeaching so for me it's easy to get excited about.

As a matter of interest, why would it take you up to 10 days to lift again?

deadlybuzzman

J-Fit wrote: »

That's pretty much how I go with things. I've been close to blacking out on squats but obviously that's not something I recommend to anyone. My final sets of squats and deads, but not bench, take almost 10 mins to recover to the point that I can begin my assistance work. To me, 5 reps is fine if that's what your max was but if you could have squeezed 8 or 9, 5 is just a form of detraining. Think about it, 5 reps on 85% of 90% of your 1rm is the equivalent of 5 reps at 75% of 1rm. Nobody will get strong at that level. Something maximal has to be done like 75% for 12. Do that a month later with more weight and you officially got stronger.

I've seen guys stand still and even go backwards because they didn't have the balls to let it all hang on the final set. For me that's what it's all about. I often find myself thinking about it the day before and actually getting excited about the final set. As I move up through the warm up and work sets, my heart starts beating faster due to a combination of nerves and anticipation and when I finally get there I just unload. It's quite nerve wracking and it requires that level of stimulation to really get the most out of the set.

I'm just a huge fan of the stepwise approach to 531 that for the most part will prevent any form of overeaching so for me it's easy to get excited about.

As a matter of interest, why would it take you up to 10 days to lift again?

I really liked the clarity and simplicity of it-you know what weight youll be lifting as soon as you glance at the logbook and it does help focus the mind, Id wake up in the morning and think "its deadlift day" etc.

It took that long to do a lift again because I lifted Mon Wed Fri and found that on a monday when Id be due to squat my back wouldnt be fully recovered after only 2 days rest from deads, so by spacing it out and giving military press its own day allowed for more recovery and giving military its own day helped my put more effort into improving it (it was always rubbish though!)