filtering

Merch

Out and about today,
Filtering technically not allowed? but actually? it seems to make sense to do it when its possible.

So what is the best way to filter, with regard to where you might be seen most,
down the righthand side of vehicles?
where you can fit?

I dont aim to do it, but was stuck behind a few ques of traffic where I could have squeezed up.
Later on I ended up passing a long line of traffic waiting to turn by just using the buslane, it was safer and quicker just to get out and go down it and it seemed like it would have been pointless to wait.

Is there an official line? or is it luck of the draw if you might be stopped for it.

Del2005

Filtering is allowed, there's no law against it. If you take the p1ss the cops can do you for dangerous driving or without due care, but that's the same even if not filtering.


It depends on the road and where you want to be on which side to use. Just do it slowly and assume all the cars are out to kill you.

Merch

I should have added, Im reasonably new on the road as a biker.
Any opinions on whether the Gardai take a hard line on using the buslanes? say to pass a line of stationary traffic, not to make significant progress.

overall, I'm taking it easy as I go, just like to know.

Cuddlesworth

Merch wrote: »

I should have added, Im reasonably new on the road as a biker.
Any opinions on whether the Gardai take a hard line on using the buslanes? say to pass a line of stationary traffic, not to make significant progress.

overall, I'm taking it easy as I go, just like to know.

You can use bus lanes all day long, the gardai don't care. Just don't rip the piss with speed relative to the traffic. Eg, don't nail down it at 60kph with traffic at a standstill.

Some tips for filtering and bus lane driving.

Filter is best done in traffic at really low speeds or stopped. If its moving, its never really worth the risk. You will only catch up time at the next set of lights.

When your stopped at the top of the lights pull as far out in front as possible. Especially if there is a truck there. If your close, there is a chance the truck won't see you. If they are texting, there is a chance they will drive right into you. The space gives you time to react.

Always filter on the right where possible. The left side is a free for all with cars. They tend to respect the side where a car can hit them head on.

Filter at a speed that's safe for what you can see. No point filtering two feet away from a van that you cant see through. You will hit a pedestrian at some point. They don't expect you there, so you should expect them. I don't see a lot of motorbikes doing this, but I've seen quite a few cyclists plow people out of it.

Be very aware of junctions, keep a close eye on cars coming out of them as well as turning into them. You can spot this by the road position and speed of most cars travelling in your lane and where they are looking in both. This is really important for bus lanes, drivers do not check their mirrors.

If there is a gap in heavy traffic while filtering or travelling in a bus lane and visibility is restricted slow down in advance. The gap is there for a reason. I've seen two mopeds crash into a car turning through traffic into a driveway or shop carpark because they failed to spot the gap and tore by me. And yes, plenty of times its nothing. But the amount of times your right more then makes up for it.

Keep your distance while overtaking/filter, if you can. I'll happily drive mid lane up the wrong side of the road when there is nothing coming. Lets me see more and gives me more time to react.


Lastly, and this is the most important. Every time you get a "near miss", don't get angry. Finish your drive and think about what "you" could have done to avoid it. Was it a turn into a junction that you should have pre-empted? Should you have kept your distance from the car if front? Where you travelling a little to fast? Do this and you will find yourself in less and less of these situations.

Merch

Thanks for the advice,
As much as is possible, I'd prefer to learn from others experience rather than my own inexperience.
I dont really think I will filter through moving traffic, I'm thinking more for stationary lines of traffic or if, when a q of traffic turning left/right has blocked the road ahead.
I see any near misses (outside of biking and not just driving) as an opportunity to fix a problem, I know lots dont see things that way.
In biking, I guess I'd see them as a lucky escape not to be forgotten.

I think my question has been answered really

Thanks all/both

Del2005

Merch wrote: »

Thanks for the advice,
As much as is possible, I'd prefer to learn from others experience rather than my own inexperience.
I dont really think I will filter through moving traffic, I'm thinking more for stationary lines of traffic or if, when a q of traffic turning left/right has blocked the road ahead.
I see any near misses (outside of biking and not just driving) as an opportunity to fix a problem, I know lots dont see things that way.
In biking, I guess I'd see them as a lucky escape not to be forgotten.

I think my question has been answered really

Thanks all/both

Getting some more lessons won't go astray. Your asking the right questions and while there's a lot of experienced riders here willing to share their experience, having someone showing you is much better.

Merch

It was recommended to not filter, it was probably at that stage that he didn't think it was something to bring up.
I like to get out and about to practice on my own bike for the moment to get experience, not that I've ruled further lessons out, it is good to be able to get a direct answer or immediate correction of some error instead of developing a bad habit.

Paparazzo

Some good tips from Cuddlesworth. For gods sake, take your time! A few times I've seen bikes pass a line of traffic at high speed when a car could have easily come out from a road/driveway on their left doing a right hander.

When I'm driving past a lane of traffic I always slow when going past a van or truck in case a pedestrian comes out. As Cuddlesworth said, don't be afraid to drive in the middle of the other lane (2 lane road, one lane each way type road).
I had a woman push a pram right out in front of me once from behind a van. Thank got I was going slow, still had to slam on and skidded and stopped about a meter away. Mother didn't even notice, she was looking to her left the whole time!

If another biker is driving up your arse, let him pass and don't feel pressure to go faster. If he wants to fly past cars and take a massive risk, let him.

Paparazzo

Paparazzo wrote: »

If another biker is driving up your arse, let him pass and don't feel pressure to go faster. If he wants to fly past cars and take a massive risk, let him.

I second this. On my commute there's a guy on a 250 ninja that I always let past. He likes to filter at about 80kph whereas I would only do it when the traffic is stationary at a set of lights. If there's a bus lane I'll use that above filtering, it is safer for everyone involved.

Paparazzo

baz8080 wrote: »

I second this. On my commute there's a guy on a 250 ninja that I always let past. He likes to filter at about 80kph whereas I would only do it when the traffic is stationary at a set of lights. If there's a bus lane I'll use that above filtering, it is safer for everyone involved.

Does he go up the Naas road by any chance? A black 250 ninja?

No, that's not him He's on a green machine. In general I tend to let most people by because I like going at my own pace.

Paparazzo

Guy on a black one drives like a bit of an idiot. Just let them pass, if they want to take risks it's up to them

Wossack

• dont overtake at junctions if possible - certainly avoid overtaking in housing estates
• keep out of cyclelanes
• people pulling into the left in a queue of traffic, are as likely to be dropping someone off, as to be preparing for an inpromptu U-turn
• gaps in the line of traffic you're overtaking, as mentioned, are warning signs - look out for them
• on a two lane road, a cyclist coming towards you, means that oncoming traffic will have to overtake them. This may leave you with very little room 'between the lanes', so try and look ahead, and move back into your lane well beforehand.
• Dont try and get to the front of traffic unless you've some idea of the state of the traffic lights. If they're to turn green, the second you get infront of the 'leader', they may take off straight into you. Be happy to merge in second or third in the line instead.
• dont think that because you can see over the traffic, its still safe to overtake on the sweeping downhill left hander - little lotus elises are very low, and you may overlook them

just a few Ive seen/experienced

Paparazzo

Wossack wrote: »

Dont try and get to the front of traffic unless you've some idea of the state of the traffic lights. If they're to turn green, the second you get infront of the 'leader', they may take off straight into you. Be happy to merge in second or third in the line instead.

Was going to put that one. Sometimes it's a tight squeeze between a traffic island and a car/truck. Definitely merge behind them if that's the case.

jameshayes

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Always filter on the right where possible. The left side is a free for all with cars. They tend to respect the side where a car can hit them head on.

If there is a gap in heavy traffic while filtering or travelling in a bus lane and visibility is restricted slow down in advance. The gap is there for a reason.

Lastly, and this is the most important. Every time you get a "near miss", don't get angry. Finish your drive and think about what "you" could have done to avoid it. Was it a turn into a junction that you should have pre-empted? Should you have kept your distance from the car if front? Where you travelling a little to fast? Do this and you will find yourself in less and less of these situations.

Best 3 lifesaving points made on this forum

Luckycharm

As said be very careful Filtering especially past buses as often will walk unawares straight out in front of the bus

Another question when coming up to a junction and you are behind a Van that is turning right where do you go? If a very busy junction where you know they will have difficulty getting out I slowly filter past.
Last week there was a big van indicating right at not so busy junction so I waited behind it about 4/5 mts only for said Van to suddenly to start reversing and run right into me. Alot of cars at this place do U turns even though there is a sign clearly saying this is not allowed, this woman decided to do one making him reverse and he said he could not see me.
My bike was actually stuck to his bumper and broke my Mudgaurd. I was fine I did take pics just in case we had issues, anyway we sorted it out and he has paid to get it fixed but just putting it out there if behind a Van with no rear window to maybe stay out slightly right when behind them.

ratracer

There's a sticker on some trucks/vans that says 'if you can't see my mirrors, I can't see you' . It's not there for fun.

carsQhere

When you arrive at the tail end of a long queue of cars, especially on a main road, the ones nearest the back of the queue are the most likely to pull a u-turn across your path as you filter past.

The ones that have been sitting there or crawling along for the past ten minutes are more likely to have committed to sitting it out.

Try not to filter past queues like this any quicker than you'd be comfortable hitting one if they u-turn unnanounced.

That said, cars are like people - if one of them is going to hit you they will often show the signs. Beware any vehicle sitting opposite an entrance or gateway which might facilitate a 3-point turn. Anyone hanging back from the car in front, out of line or off center of the queue, window down in cold weather or moving back and forth is a likely candidate. Not all of them will show the signs mind, which is why you want to be going easy past them. Don't be greedy. There's millions more cars to filter past :-)

rameire

just a quick question in relation to an above statement about not riding the arse off another bike.
how far back would you say is enough?
i usually sit back by 1.5 to 2 car lengths behind another biker.
and also, I usually sit to the right or to the left of the biker so that they can easlily see me, i try not to sit in a direct line behind them.
Cheers

To the OP.
be wary of cars driving slowly or irratically, drifting all over the place, or sitting in the middle lane on a road, you will get used to these drivers as they are usually talking or texting on their phone, and they will never see you.
you could be 6 inches from their driver door looking at them write a text and they will not see you,
they are also liable to make late manouvers across a road due to not noticing where they are.

Del2005

rameire wrote: »

just a quick question in relation to an above statement about not riding the arse off another bike.
how far back would you say is enough?
i usually sit back by 1.5 to 2 car lengths behind another biker.
and also, I usually sit to the right or to the left of the biker so that they can easlily see me, i try not to sit in a direct line behind them.
Cheers

"Only a fool breaks the two second rule."

daenerysstormborn3

If I'm out with a group of bikers I maintain the same distance as I would from a car and we always ride in a somewhat staggered formation so that we are all visible individually.

reece

Just a quick one. When filtering up the middle of a 2 lane road (n4 outbound for example) through slow moving traffic I'm never sure when I'd legally have to pull back into a lane when traffic is working up to regular speed again. Any suggestions.

Wossack

legally, you shouldnt be going up the inside of any moving traffic, as its technically undertaking

but anywho... from a safety point of view, Id be moving back in asap. The quicker the traffic is moving, the more opportunities are available for cars to chop and change lane on you - and they can do so faster

Hotblack Desiato

Paparazzo wrote: »

Does he go up the Naas road by any chance? A black 250 ninja?

Guy I work with meets that description... including the risk taking :eek:

Quebec Delta Mike

reece wrote: »

Just a quick one. When filtering up the middle of a 2 lane road (n4 outbound for example) through slow moving traffic I'm never sure when I'd legally have to pull back into a lane when traffic is working up to regular speed again. Any suggestions.

Well, I was waiting for someone to mention this...filtering through "slow" moving traffic. As it was "Reece" who brought it up, how slow is slow?
I am usually in my car on the N4 every day, and the number of times I have been undertaken by bikes, on the hard shoulder, or on my left as I overtake...it's suicidal guys.
This thread would have you believe ('cause the advice has been mostly very good) it's the unskilled and young that do the stupid stuff, but I regularly see big GSs,CBRs,GSXs,ZZs etc, hammering up the middle of two lane traffic that's already doing 120kph+....sheer madness. These guys, you would think, have years of experience, and have been "off" a couple of times themselves...so what's the death wish for? If you don't believe me, try driving on the inside lane between Kilcock and Palmerstown, N4 inbound, any weekday morning around 8-9oc.
As an aside, when stationary in the right hand lane, queuing, I always keep to the right, to give filtering bikers plenty of room up the middle.

Just sayin'...

QDM

Cuddlesworth

Quebec Delta Mike wrote: »

These guys, you would think, have years of experience, and have been "off" a couple of times themselves...so what's the death wish for?

Because for a large amount of drivers, its always somebody else's fault and never their driving that's the problem. If you think you can get away with something, the average driver will do it. Its not a motorbike specific problem. Only difference is that the biker is far more vulnerable at all times, can do far more stupid actions and its far more noticeable to you.

BlackWizard

Del2005 wrote: »

"Only a fool breaks the two second rule."

Just on that. I used to start counting at 0. So when the driver on front passes an object I say zero mississippi, one mississippi, two. Basically when I say one , two it seems a lot shorter.

When it pours make it four

Del2005

BlackWizard wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

"Only a fool breaks the two second rule."

Just on that. I used to start counting at 0. So when the driver on front passes an object I say zero mississippi, one mississippi, two. Basically when I say one , two it seems a lot shorter.

When it pours make it four

It takes 2 seconds to speak it, so no need to count.

When it rains repeat and for snow and ice pray;-)

BlackWizard

Ah that's clever! Just say the sentence and it's 2 seconds

shutup

New rider here. Not aggressive at all but I filter traffic like everyone else.
If I went around stationary cars queuing at a t junction. When I got to the towards the top the cars are bumper to bumper and the first car had slightly broken the white line.
So Id be stuck, slightly on wrong side of the road with nowhere to get in.
What would I do?

Mjolnir

shutup wrote: »

New rider here. Not aggressive at all but I filter traffic like everyone else.
If I went around stationary cars queuing at a t junction. When I got to the towards the top the cars are bumper to bumper and the first car had slightly broken the white line.
So Id be stuck, slightly on wrong side of the road with nowhere to get in.
What would I do?

Read the road and don't proceed that far if you can't make your way safely into the lane.
Junctions are no place to risk filtering and being stuck on the opposite side of the road.
Remember you can't stop in the opposite lane/side of the road because you got caught there you're one hundred percent at fault if you get hit.
Cars are under no obligation to let you in either as there's no official law on filtering in Ireland, and some get pissy that we don't have to wait in all traffic situations.
I've had some try force me out of the lane at traffic lights only to realise a bike cop was behind them watching them.
When filtering use caution, when filtering near a junction be over cautious if you can't wait a few minutes it may cost you more than those minutes.

zubair

shutup wrote: »

New rider here. Not aggressive at all but I filter traffic like everyone else.
If I went around stationary cars queuing at a t junction. When I got to the towards the top the cars are bumper to bumper and the first car had slightly broken the white line.
So Id be stuck, slightly on wrong side of the road with nowhere to get in.
What would I do?

Which wrong side are we talking about?

shutup

zubair wrote: »

Which wrong side are we talking about?

Wrong lane. Having over taken on the right

shutup

Thanks Mjolnir. Your post makes sense.
I actually did get caught out by this the other day. There must have been 60 cars backed up with no on coming traffic. I think most of us would have gone for it.
All was going well and I decided I wouldn’t get greedy and go all the way to the top.
I thought I’d just get into the next gap. Absolutely nothing. Bumper to bumper, couldn’t get in anywhere.
I had to just nudge in at second in the queue. I thought I’d get in and give an apology wave and as I got there the first car got to move away so I nearly did cause a collision as second car went to move too.
I felt awful and have rethought using that route as it’s always going to have that back up at that time.

zubair

shutup wrote: »

Thanks Mjolnir. Your post makes sense.
I actually did get caught out by this the other day. There must have been 60 cars backed up with no on coming traffic. I think most of us would have gone for it.
All was going well and I decided I wouldn’t get greedy and go all the way to the top.
I thought I’d just get into the next gap. Absolutely nothing. Bumper to bumper, couldn’t get in anywhere.
I had to just nudge in at second in the queue. I thought I’d get in and give an apology wave and as I got there the first car got to move away so I nearly did cause a collision as second car went to move too.
I felt awful and have rethought using that route as it’s always going to have that back up at that time.

I do this all the time, with the token wave of course. Plenty of poke in a bike to catch a spot if the traffic starts to move on you. Ice been doing it a while though. When I first started I remember somebody saying, if the light is red when you arrive to it don't filter as you don't know when it will change.

Blondie919

I just realized that this thread is from 2012 but I suppose it's still relevant. I was just thinking if anyone else does this trick when filtering. If you can't see over a van or jeep while filtering try to look through their windscreen via the rear window. It's usually just a quick glance but it can give you a heads up of what's up ahead.

AlekSmart

rameire wrote: »

just a quick question in relation to an above statement about not riding the arse off another bike.
how far back would you say is enough?
i usually sit back by 1.5 to 2 car lengths behind another biker.
and also, I usually sit to the right or to the left of the biker so that they can easlily see me, i try not to sit in a direct line behind them.
Cheers

To the OP.
be wary of cars driving slowly or irratically, drifting all over the place, or sitting in the middle lane on a road, you will get used to these drivers as they are usually talking or texting on their phone, and they will never see you.
you could be 6 inches from their driver door looking at them write a text and they will not see you,
they are also liable to make late manouvers across a road due to not noticing where they are.

As a +1 to this,be also very cautious around vehicles with an "N" plate and an upside down "L"plate squeezed in above a "Baby on Board" sticker,as the drivers resultant rearward vision will be limited......;)

zubair

Blondie919 wrote: »

I just realized that this thread is from 2012 but I suppose it's still relevant. I was just thinking if anyone else does this trick when filtering. If you can't see over a van or jeep while filtering try to look through their windscreen via the rear window. It's usually just a quick glance but it can give you a heads up of what's up ahead.

Getting in front of them is better ;-)