Solar panels

currandes

Am thinking about having solar panels installed for hot water system. Had a consultation from the Big Green.ie sustainable energy solutions and am wondering has anybody dealt with that company. Are solar panels worth the money and how long does it take to recoup your investment? We live in a 2 storey semi-detached with 2 children. We have a gas boiler and an emersion.

heinbloed

The OP asks:

Are solar panels worth the money and how long does it take to recoup your investment?

One needs more data for an answer.

If you have a professional installer he will be able to calculate this for you. Ask for a written and detailed calculation.

If an installer is not willing to prepare this calculation shop somewhere else.

currandes

Thanks, our house is s/sw facing and we were told we'd need 2.5 panels due to the shape of the house. does anyone know how much it costs to run a triton T90 for approx 6 minutes?

Jack_regan

Taken from triton's website.

www.tritonshowers.co.uk/triton-for-the-homeowner/after-sales-service/faq.aspx?productCategory=5765&questiontype=0#faq-14714

How can I work out the running cost of an electric shower?
To establish the electricity cost firstly multiply the kW per hour tariff you are paying by the kW rating of the shower. The cost per shower is then dependant on the number of showers taken per hour.
Example for an 8kW shower unit.
Electricity tariff at 12 pence per kW hour multiplied by 8 = Total cost of 96 pence per hour.
Number of 5-minute showers taken in 1 hour = 12
96p divided by 12 = Total cost of 8 pence for a 5 minute shower

currandes

Thanks Jack, That'll be another piece of the jig-saw solved

Kaner2004

I worked extensively on software to that calculates payback on domestic solar panels (all types), wind energy installations, etc.
A lot of research was done for this by BAs and it was very, very good.

If you saw the research you would not ever think of getting solar or wind installations. Under no conditions will you ever get anywhere near your outlay.

Most calculations given by installation companies dont even take into account maintenance or replacement parts that will be needed over the life of the product.

if someone tells you the payback period is 15 years, ask them what figures they have in there for maintenance and replacement when breakdowns happen. Also ask about erosion of efficiency over the time.
They wont have these figures in their break even calculation at all, but will say "Ah sure they never break down" or "These parts are very cheap and there is no maintenance". Believe it if you are gullible.
Then ask them will they guarantee all parts and labour for the 15 years since they are so confident. If they dont, then you know what the real story is, dont you.

Imagine the example in the post above. Say you had the 12 5 min showers a day. Well thats £350 a year (you can calculate for € and Irish esb prices instead yourself.)

So assuming nothing EVER goes wrong, you will be a long, long time paying off your investment, even if you NEVER use mains electricity to heat water or top up. And you better hope you dont move house by the time your break even (which is never).


Out of interest currandes what are you getting quoted? And what to they say is break even time. Its vague i bet.

heinbloed

@theOP:

Asking for data means asking for the price to cover the demand. We have to know the demand and the acceptable price to cover it.
Check the posting of Kaner2004.

There are ST collectors which are no "panels", working maintenance free. These are used in most cases on our globe, about 80 % of the world wide sold ST systems are not subsidised, chosen for their competetivness.

And they show a pay back (amortisation) without subsidies. Otherwise they would not be sold and installed.


It might be worth to acknowledge that 98-99% of the demanded domestic thermal energy in Ireland is covered by ST energy anyhow, for free. This makes facts easier to accept - another 1-2% towards thermal independance isn't such a brainer anymore.

PS

Check the www. For "Sunshore Solar", these collectors with the solar keymark (Estif) do pay for themself. Provided you can install them yourself.

heinbloed

Here a sample for a maintenance free ST from China where these are sold by the millions:

The luxury version, pressurised and with electric back-up:

http://www.sunshore.cn/en/Products_Page.asp?id=9

sold in Europe for around €1,000

This one for around € 700.-:

http://www.sunshore.cn/en/Products_Page.asp?id=8

And this one for something in between, covering the (Irish/UK) standard bucket-in-the-tree demand:

http://www.sunshore.cn/en/Products_Page.asp?id=10

For a video on how to assemble these collectors check the www..


Note the Solar Keymark. There are other collectors of this type, used by the Nato army forces for about half the price per kWh harvested ST energy. But no Solar Keymark - if this matters at all.

richiek67

Hi Folks,

Just following this thread and I'm quite amazed at Kraners anti solar and seems under the impression that this is a useless way to go, despite the fact that , when you consider the price of oil, and probably gas, that the payback for these installations is actually becoming smaller and smaller.
I'm looking into getting solar and have done a bit of research over the last 18 months. 4k5 for a a house for 5 people.


My only problem is that I've now come to realise that the shower in the bathroom is electric...DOh!! I would love if there was some way during the installation, if I do it, to hook up a different shower which can tap off the hot water already in the cylinder...
If anyone has ideas on this then I'd be glad to hear them...

Cheers

Rich

heinbloed

@ Ritchiek67 :

Your question was already answered here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056615534

Diggerdunne

i have Solar Panels in about 2 and a half years now, touch wood no problems. the main reson i put them in was not to save money although it is a nice feeling to know you have "free" hot water for certain months of the year. I used "" as i know its not free i have out layed 5 or 6k or whatever it was. But to know that i am tapping into a natural resource to create something that if more people did would have a greener and more eco friendly result for the country and less co2 and gas emmissions etc. I just think the more people who use solar the better off we will be.... And as for the expense of it, its only expensive the day you buy it after that its relatively cheap......

Joey the lips

i have avoided the multiple threads on boards about solar because to be honest its becoming like religion there is just to many arguements for and against.

From the bit of research about efficiencys i have done, from selling them and from following there progress i have come to the conclusion it is not work investing in solar unless

1. You pressurise your entire house in which case you will also need a pressurised cylinder.

2. You introduce them at the stage of building


Either way i have come to the conclusion that the cost v's payback is not worth it.

heinbloed

Joey the lips wrote:

Either way i have come to the conclusion that the cost v's payback is not worth it.

What price per delivered/tapped kWh did you figure out?


Would € 0.04/kWh be allright? ( http://www.arcon.dk/?sc_lang=en )

Or less ?

How much does the calculated alternative cost?

Laws of economics and physics are no religion, Joey the lips. Energy can be suplied on a contract base, a fixed price per kWh. As in the Danish sample above.
It's the religious people who shy numbers.

Concerning

1. You pressurise your entire house in which case you will also need a pressurised cylinder.

This isn't correct, contact a heating engineer for advise. Or a ST installer.
Non-pressurised ST collectors can be connected to non-pressurised DHW sytems and central heating systems as well as pressurised DHW and central systems.
And vice versa.

Here a sample:

http://www.sunshore.cn/en/Products_Page.asp?id=9

JohnnieK

Diggerdunne wrote: »

i have Solar Panels in about 2 and a half years now, touch wood no problems. the main reson i put them in was not to save money although it is a nice feeling to know you have "free" hot water for certain months of the year. I used "" as i know its not free i have out layed 5 or 6k or whatever it was. But to know that i am tapping into a natural resource to create something that if more people did would have a greener and more eco friendly result for the country and less co2 and gas emmissions etc. I just think the more people who use solar the better off we will be.... And as for the expense of it, its only expensive the day you buy it after that its relatively cheap......

You should think about getting the glycol changed, it usually has a life span of 2 to 3 years me thinks.

It starts going gluppy and starts turning black, It will damage parts in the system then (pump, non-return valve)

Diggerdunne

I get it serviced every year so think I'm ok on that score, cheers...

richiek67

i have avoided the multiple threads on boards about solar because to be honest its becoming like religion there is just to many arguements for and against.

From the bit of research about efficiencys i have done, from selling them and from following there progress i have come to the conclusion it is not work investing in solar unless

1. You pressurise your entire house in which case you will also need a pressurised cylinder.

2. You introduce them at the stage of building


Either way i have come to the conclusion that the cost v's payback is not worth it.


Have to diss-agree on this one I'm afraid. I agree on Heinbloed's point.

as1435

Hi just wondering, did you decide on evac tubes or flat panels and was the big green company expensive? what is the normal price for a full install on flat panels or evac tubes. any advice would be appreciated.

Doctorned

Hi guys solar should provide 90 % your hot water from march-oct and 40% from oct to march....The average home will only use our heating or showers for hot water from march to oct,as we have heating off.Then we have our heating on from oct march anyway so it's less costly to bring up our bottom line temperature. your average electric shower costs 125€ to 150€ per adult head per annum. Women use 40% more water than men.;) Your ratio of heating water to space is bout 3 /1 hot water costing way more....

You should work out 50 litres of water per person in your house minimum size tank should be 200 litres.Every house in Ireland with small 90 litre copper tanks under heating water. I future proofed my own I put in 300 as I built it in case I have 3 -4 children. I only use 800 euro kerosene house 4380 sq.ft. I turn off heating early march til roughly 3rd week oct.

currandes

Just got solar panels installed. thanks for all the help guy's.

doingitright

hi, any 1 have any experience of having their heating system controlled automatically, i just had a multifuel stove installed to back up my oil boiler and also installing solar panel, my problem is controlling the heat output to my rads, its a nightmare turning on/off switches, motorised values and pumps etc... any help greatly welcomed

heinbloed

Doingitright asks for help:

...also installing solar panel, my problem is controlling the heat output to my rads, its a nightmare turning on/off switches, motorised values and pumps etc...

Controlling the heat output from the rads is done via the radiator thermostat at the radiator.
There are mixing valves (available from the plumbing center) which can be installed between flow and return in a CH system as well, controlling the temperature of the water going to the radiators.

The CH system's components should be installed as an integrated system, parts should match. Undersizing and oversizing should be avoided.

heinbloed

http://www.solarthermalworld.org/node/3407

Worth a try ?

radioshuk

The energy consumed putting up wind farms and Manufacturing solar panels is always forgotten when people discuss green energy


You've all been brainwashed people ha ha:eek: