Crash liability

MrSeal

I was involved in a crash today and after ringing up the guy he's refusing to take responsibility.

What happened was I was driving on a main road when a guy pulled out from a minor road and proceeded to stop in the yellow box across two lanes of traffic.

When I seen him pulling out I tried to slow down but didn't in time and ended up collided with the back left of his car.

Points to note I was on the major road, I had right of way. My lane was clear so wouldn't have had to stop before the yellow box anyway. He pulled out from a minor road and then stopped.

lostboy

you cant stop on a yellow box for a start, and he pulled out infront of you, not exactly an open and shut rear ending? where exactly did you hit him? was it the back bumper or the door area?

were the guards at the scene?

L-M

Did you ring the Gardai, yeah?

MrSeal

lostboy wrote: »

you cant stop on a yellow box for a start, and he pulled out infront of you, not exactly an open and shut rear ending? where exactly did you hit him? was it the back bumper or the door area?

were the guards at the scene?

I hit his rear bumper not the door.

Yeah there happened to be guards in the area and they took statements.

When I rang him he said he won't take liability but also said he didn't want to go through insurance. If he thinks he's not liable why would he not want to go through insurance?

L-M

MrSeal wrote: »

I hit his rear bumper not the door.

Yeah there happened to be guards in the area and they took statements.

You should be fine so. Wouldn't worry too much.

pa990

if you have his insurance details, just go thru the insurance.

CiniO

I assume you took his details and insurance policy number, so now all you need to do is to claim for your loss from his insurance company.

djimi

Inform your insurance company, give them all the details and tell them to start a claim against him. Dont even bother engaging him in discussion if he is not willing to accept responsibility; based on what you said you are 100% in the right and the statement from the Gardai should back that up with the insurance.

MrSeal

CiniO wrote: »

I assume you took his details and insurance policy number, so now all you need to do is to claim for your loss from his insurance company.

Yeah have all the details. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't my fault seeing as he won't accept liability. Don't want to lose my NCB.

Do I ring his insurance company or mine? Is there any way he can claim (and win) that it was my responsibly? He keeps saying I should have slowed down or stopped coming up to a yellow box. Even though the lane was clear so had no need to slow down or stop.

slimjimmc

djimi wrote: »

Inform your insurance company, give them all the details and tell them to start a claim against him. Dont even bother engaging him in discussion if he is not willing to accept responsibility; based on what you said you are 100% in the right and the statement from the Gardai should back that up with the insurance.

OP, the Gardaí can't you back up, they didn't witness what happened and therefore without additonal evidence they can't say with who caused the accident. All they can do is confirm the collision occurred, those involved were road legal and make a record of each party's statement. They can testify what was said to them at the time but not to the truthfulness or accuracy of those statements.


Something has been puzzling me OP, how did you hit his rear left bumper? Did he come turn to go in the same direction as you and just stop diagonally across your carriageway even though his exit was clear?

MrSeal

Sorry my mistake. I wrote the my post quickly. I hit his rear right hand side bumper with the front left if my car.

He pulled out in front of me on the left to go right and ended up stopping in the yellow box blocking both lanes.

Drummerboy08

Is the OP in the right here?

The third party pulled out from a side road, and stopped in a yellow box. While this was going on the OP tried to stop but failed and collided.

My way of looking at it is the OP is as much in the wrong as the third party, as he was clearly driving too fast for the conditions (i.e. traffic) and didn't anticipate what could have happened.

Not only that, but it was the OP's car who hit the third party.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I wouldn't be admitting liability here either if I was the third party.

Mycroft H

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Is the OP in the right here?

The third party pulled out from a side road, and stopped in a yellow box. While this was going on the OP tried to stop but failed and collided.

My way of looking at it is the OP is as much in the wrong as the third party, as he was clearly driving too fast for the conditions (i.e. traffic) and didn't anticipate what could have happened.

Not only that, but it was the OP's car who hit the third party.

Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I wouldn't be admitting liability here either if I was the third party.

From his half of the story, I am getting the impression that the other party did not give way to traffic already on the road. But thats just me...

Drummerboy08

BX 19 wrote: »

From his half of the story, I am getting the impression that the other party did not give way to traffic already on the road. But thats just me...

That's what I originally thought, but then thinking about it, the third party had time to pull out and then stop.

Surely if the OP was driving at an appropriate speed he could have slowed down in time?

Either way, it's poor driving on the OP's behalf IMO, you should always expect the unexpected in situations like this.

Mycroft H

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

That's what I originally thought, but then thinking about it, the third party had time to pull out and then stop.

Surely if the OP was driving at an appropriate speed he could have slowed down in time?

Either way, it's poor driving on the OP's behalf IMO, you should always expect the unexpected in situations like this.

I see where your coming from to be honest, now that I've re read everything. I imagine this could turn out to be a 50 50 settlement but we don't have the full picture.

johnthemull

If the guy stopped in the yellow box was turning right, OP definitely in the wrong. If not turning right but stopped OP probably still in the wrong. Generally if you hit a stationary car, not good news??

Drummerboy08

I'm not having a go at the OP, I just think that given what we've been told, both parties seem to have a share of the blame.

Of course, there could be something that we're missing.

MrSeal

The way I see it is he pulled out obviously not seeing me coming thinking he could turn right but had to stop then as there was traffic coming in the opposite direction, hence me hitting him as he pulled out and stopped so quickly I didn't have enough time to come to a complete stop. I was driving below the speed limit.

He claims he pulled out and slowed down in the yellow box (this makes no sense to me). He also seems to be of the opinion just because there was a yellow box there I was expected to stop or slow down even though my path was clear to go before he pulled out.

How can someone pull out onto a major road and not be in the wrong? Surely if that was the case there'd be no point in right of way?

If I pulled out from a minor road onto a major one and a car collided with me I'd put my hands up and say I was in the wrong.

Tragedy

There are national roads (i.e. 100km/h) that have entrances to houses on them. Does that mean people should slow down to 30km/h at every entrance in case a driver decides to pull out on to the national road to cross traffic and turn right?

OP, out of curiousity mind showing us where on google maps?

OldmanMondeo

OP in "control" of junction, other car should have made sure they could have cleared the junction safetly, they couldn't, car's crashed, OP not at fault. OP could have been driving at warp speed, he is not at fault.

MrSeal

Tragedy wrote: »

There are national roads (i.e. 100km/h) that have entrances to houses on them. Does that mean people should slow down to 30km/h at every entrance in case a driver decides to pull out on to the national road to cross traffic and turn right?

OP, out of curiousity mind showing us where on google maps?

Sorry I'm on the mobile at the moment so can't link.

The way it is is there are two lanes in the direction I was driving, one lane in the opposite direction. He came from a side road on the left. I was in the left turning lane which was clear, the straight lane (lane on my right) had heavy traffic.

He pulled out from the left. The reason I imagine he breaked quickly after pulling out is there is no way he could have seen the traffic coming from the opposite direction.

What I find strange is at the scene when I asked how he wanted to sort this and would I contact the insurance company he told me he wanted it sorted the cheapest way. This led me to believe he was taking responsibility. Also strange was when he denied liability on the phone he was still keen not to involve insurance companies. Why if he thought he wasn't liable? It would not effect him whatsoever.

I also shouted at him after the collision asking him what the hell he thought he was doing pulling out in front of me and he apologised.

Tragedy

Seems simple enough. Suddenly pulled out in front of you expecting to have turned right and be out of your way - he had to jam on and stop, blocked two lanes, and you hit him.

MrSeal

Tragedy wrote: »

Seems simple enough. Suddenly pulled out in front of you expecting to have turned right and be out of your way - he had to jam on and stop, blocked two lanes, and you hit him.

So my fault or his? Was certain he was in the wrong until coming on here.

Tragedy

MrSeal wrote: »

So my fault or his? Was certain he was in the wrong until coming on here.

His! But at the end of the day, your insurance company decides whether or not to contest liability. Have witnesses?

MrSeal

Tragedy wrote: »

His! But at the end of the day, your insurance company decides whether or not to contest liability. Have witnesses?

No sadly not. Was on the way home from work.

Couple of questions about insurance.

I'm a named driver on my partner's car (it was this I was driving). If I somehow was found responsible would she lose he NCB or would I?

Also do I just ring my own insurance company and give them the details? I'm going to get a quote on Monday and ask him one more time does he want to accept liability. Will I wait until after this to call the insurance?

How long does it take to get a payment from insurance? Need to get the car sorted ASAP.

Thanks for all the replies.

Wheelnut

The other party is obliged by his insurance not to say anything that would impose a liability on his insurers, so he is correct to deny liability at this stage.

The other party is entitled to stop in the yellow box if he is turning right.

So did the other party suddenly pull out and screech to a halt which gave nobody a chance to avoid him?

I really think this is a job for the insurers, after all, that's what you paid them for with your insurance premium. Why keep a dog and bark yourself?

Tragedy

Wheelnut wrote: »

The other party is entitled to stop in the yellow box if he is turning right.

Only if he has right of way and won't block other traffic by doing so. He didn't have right of way and he blocked free flowing traffic.

OldmanMondeo

MrSeal wrote: »

No sadly not. Was on the way home from work.

Couple of questions about insurance.

I'm a named driver on my partner's car (it was this I was driving). If I somehow was found responsible would she lose he NCB or would I?

Also do I just ring my own insurance company and give them the details? I'm going to get a quote on Monday and ask him one more time does he want to accept liability. Will I wait until after this to call the insurance?

How long does it take to get a payment from insurance? Need to get the car sorted ASAP.

Thanks for all the replies.

The fact there is no witness will work in your favour. It will be your word against his, claim investigator will look into it and see the other guy pulled on a major road. They should find against them, something similar happened my wife, car pulled out onto a major road and hit her, no witnesses, insurance said she was in control of junction and the other party was 100% at fault.

Dartz

Incidentally, the exact opposite happened to my father.

He pulled out of a pub way back when you could booze up a little and not worry about being arrested, checked both ways out of the pub's car park were clear and drove out...

Only to be slammed by a car that came speeding into the village. Car was hit hard enough to be bent down the middle and shoved a fair distance up the road.

The car that hit him was judged to be at fault.

db330

Generally when you hit a stopped car you are at fault. So this guy pulled pulled out to turn right,and then stopped blocking both lanes. He was in a yellow box, but since he was turning right, he is allowed do this, You then came in and hit hit him as he was stationary.

This is how it will come across to the insurance companies. I would be putting my money on him winning this case.

Jimbob 83

OP is 100% in the right, i see no reason for you to be ringing the other party though if statements were taken and you got his details, just go through insurance it's what they are paid for.

Also buy a dashcam

MrSeal

db330 wrote: »

Generally when you hit a stopped car you are at fault. So this guy pulled pulled out to turn right,and then stopped blocking both lanes. He was in a yellow box, but since he was turning right, he is allowed do this, You then came in and hit hit him as he was stationary.

This is how it will come across to the insurance companies. I would be putting my money on him winning this case.

I was already coming towards him when he pulled out. I'm not sure if he stopped completely, he claimed he slowed down after pulling out. It's not as if he was sitting in the yellow box waiting to turn before I came along. I was already coming towards him when he pulled out and couldn't stop in time.

Jimbob 83

Slowing down in his case was probably not the smartest thing to do considering he was pulling out infront of 2 lanes of traffic with the right of way

MrSeal

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Slowing down in his case was probably not the smartest thing to do considering he was pulling out infront of 2 lanes of traffic with the right of way

Pulling out with a car coming towards you and not being able to see if the far lane was clear to turn wasn't the smartest thing to do in fairness.

I'd understand if he chances his luck pulling out and he had a clear road. He didn't. He couldn't see if he could make the turn or not as he could not see traffic in the opposite direction.

marzic

http://www.rotr.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/yellow-box-junctions.html

"you must not stop in the yellow box unless you can clear it without stopping. An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don't enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way."

OP I'm of the view that you are not liable here. The other party is doing what insurance companies advise - do not accept liability. The guards will not get involved if no one was injured, but they will likely be contacted by insurance investigator and they will confirm what they found - which will support your side of events.

Ring his insurance company to begin the claim process get a replacement car whatever you are entitled to, give them all the details and the guards contact details also. Ring your own insurance also and put them in the picture about what happened and that you are making a claim against the other partys insurance. Avoid any further contact with the other party directly.

MrSeal

Think I will just leave it with the insurance company now. Will give them a call tomorrow.

Generally how long will I be waiting to get my car repaired? The wheel is scrapping off something when turning so would like to get it fixed soon.

marzic

MrSeal wrote: »

Think I will just leave it with the insurance company now. Will give them a call tomorrow.

Generally how long will I be waiting to get my car repaired? The wheel is scrapping off something when turning so would like to get it fixed soon.

you could be at least 2 weeks they'll have to investigate it first, if and when they accept liability it will have to be brought to a garage to quote for the repair, plus they may have to send an engineer to confirm the extent of the damage and verify the quote is accurate. Then another week to arrange/complete the repair.

Be aware that insurance companies will now try to minimize their exposure. A lad I know had a lot of bother with a claim because the engine light came on after the crash, and they tried to make him prove that it wasnt already on before the crash - he had to beat them over the head a bit to get them to cover the engine light, which was sorted with a reset

MrSeal

marzic wrote: »

you could be at least 2 weeks they'll have to investigate it first, if and when they accept liability it will have to be brought to a garage to quote for the repair, plus they may have to send an engineer to confirm the extent of the damage and verify the quote is accurate. Then another week to arrange/complete the repair.

Be aware that insurance companies will now try to minimize their exposure. A lad I know had a lot of bother with a claim because the engine light came on after the crash, and they tried to make him prove that it wasnt already on before the crash - he had to beat them over the head a bit to get them to cover the engine light, which was sorted with a reset

2 weeks is a long time. What's the story with a courtesy car? Is it possible to avail of that?

Well hopefully nothing like that will happen. Know someone who works in a repair centre and they looked at it today and it seems to be cosmetic mostly. Needs a new bumper, side panel and light.

marzic

MrSeal wrote: »

2 weeks is a long time. What's the story with a courtesy car? Is it possible to avail of that?

Well hopefully nothing like that will happen. Know someone who works in a repair centre and they looked at it today and it seems to be cosmetic mostly. Needs a new bumper, side panel and light.

Have his insurance company accepted their client was at fault?

His insurance company should be supplying a car once they've accepted liability, if they haven't offered then ask for it. Its just my opinion but the one thing i believe you must never be in these situations is passive, its a lot of hassle that you didnt ask for so you should get the result you want on your terms i.e. if yours is a big car then look for the equivalent not a nissan micra