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PTSB to make a profit?

Comments

  • #2
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    being in profit doesn't mean the balance sheet looks good, they'll still have plenty of debtsa but the revenue generated from activities will cover the cost of servicing them and other costs for the year. Ideally they shouldn't make a profit but rather pay off more debt but it's still an accounting profit at the end of the day.


  • #3
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/permanent-tsb-tells-ec-its-on-track-to-make-profit-by-2014-2860662.html

    Old article posted there. There was news again this week about PTSB, it's outlook and it's return to profit.

    I'm no mathmatician so I'd be much obliged if someone could tell me how this bank (inluding it's debts) can make a profit?

    Did these banks collectively make many billions of euros in profit during the boom?

    At this stage no one knows what's happening with this bank. Government expect to profit from Irish Life and they won't come out too badly out of the bank either I think. Unlike the situation in the other banks, the real losers were the shareholders.


  • #4
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    I'm no mathmatician so I'd be much obliged if someone could tell me how this bank (inluding it's debts) can make a profit?

    Take a look at Arsenal FC for an example of this. They have large a debt due largely to the building of the new stadium (cost £390m-£490m), but they are managing to finance it through various means (stadium naming rights, the highbury square development, corporates suites, screwing as much as humanly possible out of their fans etc).

    In February the announced their half year figures up to November 2011. They made profits on operations (excluding transfers) of £7.9m - not bad for a period when the stadium is not being used for its primary purpose for 1/3 of the time. Transfer income boosted overall profits to £49.5m.

    So as long as arsenal can pay their bills (including wages & debt payments) they're profitable - despite the hundreds of millions of outstanding debt (which they currently seem to be able to afford).

    The same goes for PTRB - if the can pay their costs they can make a profit. AFAIK the government haven't given them money for day to day running, but invested in the bank - so it's probably just about fair to call it a profit.


  • #5
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I've lost track to some extent - did we bail this one out, does anyone remember?
    If we did, I look forward to the surplus from those profits going straight back into the exchequer. #wishfulthinking


  • #6
    BornToKill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    We surely did! Irish Life & Permanent has received €4bn from the State. Irish Life may be saleable at some point in the near future and Permanent TSB is to be structured - we're told into a good bank/bad bank.

    The 'good bank' part of this should probably then be able to turn a small profit only because all the bad and about-to-go-bad loans will have been taken off it. I wouldn't advise holding your breath while waiting for your €4bn back.


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  • #7
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    I will be hoping they can't sell Irish Life and it's value plummets. I see Noonan thinks it's value has gone up since they paid €1.3 bln for it.


  • #8
    BornToKill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭BornToKill


    liammur wrote: »
    I will be hoping they can't sell Irish Life and it's value plummets. I see Noonan thinks it's value has gone up since they paid €1.3 bln for it.

    €4bn for IL&P.


  • #9
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    BornToKill wrote: »
    We surely did! Irish Life & Permanent has received €4bn from the State. Irish Life may be saleable at some point in the near future and Permanent TSB is to be structured - we're told into a good bank/bad bank.

    The 'good bank' part of this should probably then be able to turn a small profit only because all the bad and about-to-go-bad loans will have been taken off it. I wouldn't advise holding your breath while waiting for your €4bn back.

    Aha. That's what I mean. So we're for 5bn for this yoke. AND now we're in for it's bad debts.

    The banks never made that kind of money in profit. That 5bn? Wasn't that given to the bank to pay it's debts?

    Eh. What am I missing here? This is a lose, lose deal for everyone but the bank.


  • #10
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Aha. That's what I mean. So we're for 5bn for this yoke. AND now we're in for it's bad debts.

    The banks never made that kind of money in profit. That 5bn? Wasn't that given to the bank to pay it's debts?

    Eh. What am I missing here? This is a lose, lose deal for everyone but the bank.

    The bad debts is the reason the money is going in, the question is, how much bad debts will there will be.


  • #11
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    liammur wrote: »
    The bad debts is the reason the money is going in, the question is, how much bad debts will there will be.

    Concrete reason for not bailing it/them out. Who knows how much we'll lose on this. Wasn't there talk of European fiscal policy preventing this kind of thing happening?

    Isn't this what we're voting about in May?

    Fiscal policy for some, a kick in the shins for others.....


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  • #12
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    Concrete reason for not bailing it/them out. Who knows how much we'll lose on this. Wasn't there talk of European fiscal policy preventing this kind of thing happening?

    Isn't this what we're voting about in May?

    Fiscal policy for some, a kick in the shins for others.....

    Of all the banks that were bailed out, this one will cost the taxpayer by far the least, in fact I would say over time the tax payer will profit from this. Whereas billions have certainly been lost in all of the other banks.


  • #13
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    4bn would buy you a nice new bank. We don't need to flush away money on a gamble like PTSB. No now anyway.


  • #14
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    Phill Ewinn wrote: »
    4bn would buy you a nice new bank. We don't need to flush away money on a gamble like PTSB. No now anyway.

    That's what shareholders said to the government, but they must be keen on making a nice profit out of it. Would be ironic if the whole thing turns into a fiasco for greedy noonan :).


  • #15
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    If Noonan doesn't act fast and sell Irish Life, they won't get much for it. He is fooling nobody apart from himself with this stupid €1.3bln price.
    _________

    SALES of life and pensions products plummeted by 17pc in the first three months of the year, continuing a trend of rapid falls that began in the second half of 2011.
    Senior insurance industry figures last night described the data from actuarial consultants Milliman as "depressing" and said it was "hard to see" what could change the trend for the rest of the year.
    The industry's continued difficulties are bad news for the State, which recently paid €1.3bn to acquire Ireland's biggest life insurer Irish Life from its Irish Life & Permanent plc. The State plans to sell Irish Life as soon as it can get a good price for it.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/life-and-pensions-products-slump-17pc-in-bloodbath-3092486.html


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