Steel Certification

carneyst

Hi,

I am almost finished a 360 sq ft extension to the back of my house that required 2 steel RSJ's to be fitted. On the quote, the builder included "Certification" of the extension by qualified person.

What does that exactly mean ? I am expecting something written by qualified person saying RSJ has been fitted correctly in line with building standards.

Am I missing something here ?

Thanks, Stephen.

sydthebeat

carneyst wrote: »

Hi,

I am almost finished a 360 sq ft extension to the back of my house that required 2 steel RSJ's to be fitted. On the quote, the builder included "Certification" of the extension by qualified person.

What does that exactly mean ? I am expecting something written by qualified person saying RSJ has been fitted correctly in line with building standards.

Am I missing something here ?

Thanks, Stephen.

Yes... make sure whoever certifies provides a copy of his professional indemnity insurance... any 'certificate' without this is useless.

scwazrh

It's basically a letter stating that the steel work has been installed in accordance with current regulations.the person who issues the letter /cert needs to have viewed each element of the steel installation so that they can confirm it was installed properly .usually it is from an engineer or an architect who is independent and holds professional indemnity .

Normally for steel work to replace load bearing walls etc , the independent professional would call out to view area prior to work , then issue drawings specifying the steel required for order and also the prep work such as padstones etc . They then call in after prepwork and again after installation and usually a few weeks after install just to double check there is no visible settlement crack appearing above where the steel is fitted.

All in all certification requires 4-5 site visits , a set of drawings showing how the work is to be done and then a letter confirming the work is done as per the drawings. If you're nearly finished the extension and have not had any site visits from an independent professional it is near impossible for anyone who has not regularly viewed the progress of works to give a meaningful cert of compliance

carneyst

Thanks Schazrh for your reply.

do i insist on a valid PI to come with nthe cert ? ( any particular reason why ?............apologies if this is a dumb question )
also, the extension was carried out by a builder whilst I was in work 90% of the time so I am unsure if the engineer came 1 time or 10 times.
also, would the builder have given him drawings as I didnt.

its completed now and we are happy with the worknaship, punctuality etc.....
Any other particular advise before I make last payment ?

SC

sydthebeat

carneyst wrote: »

do i insist on a valid PI to come with nthe cert ?

any cert without PI isnt worth the paper its written on.. its actually very dangerous for both you and the person that puts their name on it.

carneyst

Thanks for your reply.

The extension is now complete but I have 2 questions.In general he did a fine job but....

1 - the steel RSJ sticks out the side of the house about 4 inches. This will give rise to rust etc plus anything else ?
2 - the steel RSJ was not covered with pinkboard or painted with any fire resistant paint. I questioned him about this and he says he dosent need to be done as it will take a "raging inferno" to take it down. He later offered to do it but extension finished and would involved further work.

I await the engineers cert and I still owe him a couple of k.

Thanks, Stephen.

DOCARCH

From what you say - wrong on both counts!

1. This sounds like just pure laziness in that he could not be bothered to have the steel cut to the right length? Yes, it will probably rust over time but I would also question whether or not this also creates a cold bridge?

2. If the steel beam is supporting a floor structure (directly or indirectly - i.e. the beam could be forming a large ope in the back wall of the house) it needs a minimum of half hour fire protection whether by encasement, as you say, in fire resisting plasterboard or by painting with intumescent paint (usually prior to installation to give full protection). Steel does not perform well in fire and needs protection!!! In fact timber performs better in fire than steel as steel, without protection, will simply buckle. This is basic stuff and is (or was) covered in the Homebond manual.

Do you owe the guy much money? If so, do not pay any more until you get professional advice/input.

I would like to see who he gets to certify and what they have to say? If he does volunteer somebody, as said above, make sure they have PI insurnace and ask for confirmation/copy of same.

BryanF

carneyst wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.

The extension is now complete but I have 2 questions.In general he did a fine job but....

1 - the steel RSJ sticks out the side of the house about 4 inches. This will give rise to rust etc plus anything else ?
2 - the steel RSJ was not covered with pinkboard or painted with any fire resistant paint. I questioned him about this and he says he dosent need to be done as it will take a "raging inferno" to take it down. He later offered to do it but extension finished and would involved further work.

I await the engineers cert and I still owe him a couple of k.

Thanks, Stephen.

a structural steel beam sticking out the side of your house, but you feel the builder did a good job? Here's a great example/ reason for the new legilation to cover renovations.

scwazrh

carneyst wrote: »

Thanks for your reply.


1 - the steel RSJ sticks out the side of the house about 4 inches. This will give rise to rust etc plus anything else ?
2 - the steel RSJ was not covered with pinkboard or painted with any fire resistant paint. I questioned him about this and he says he dosent need to be done as it will take a "raging inferno" to take it down. He later offered to do it but extension finished and would involved further work.
.

Do not pay him another penny ! :eek::eek:

can you post a photo of the steel sticking out as surely it can't simply be sticking out of the side of the house?

All structural steel should be first painted and then slabbed with fire resistant board or painted with intumescent paint.

muffler

Not too many builders would leave a support for a nice hanging basket. Damn decent of him :rolleyes:

Poor Uncle Tom

muffler wrote: »

...a nice hanging basket.:rolleyes:

...a crane basket by the sounds of it.........:D

koaj

Only coming to this thread late. I hope the original poster sought advice from an independant engineer or architect.

It never ceases to amaze me how many people will get extensions / structural works carried out and will not engage an independant engineer to design & inspect structural works.

No qualifications or experience are required to become a builder in Ireland. Engineers and architects are not expensive these days.

engineermike

I'd be getting a snag list around about now. Hold on to the complete balance because by the sounds of it he can't get it certified in its present state.
Nor does it sound like it was assessed or calculated and agreed - leading on to final certification.

Seek independent engineering assessment and snag list asap.
mike F

Donnchadh

Can anyone recommend an engineer in south dublin to specify and certify the installation of an RSJ as part of an extension?


As was stated above I'm looking for an engineer to supply

1. A set of drawings specifying the RSJ and it's installation
2. A cert at the end of the project confirming the work is done as per the drawings

Thanks