Comparative studies HL English. HELLPPP!

biohaiid

Does anyone know for sure that the three modes coming up are General V&V
, Theme/Issue and Lit. Genre?
What about Cultural Context?
And also, anyone studying The Great Gatsby, Sive and The Constant Gardener?
Or even one of those?
Have like zero notes and any of them, and any helo would be much apprecicated.
Especially on theme or issue as we havent done it at all, but CC instead.

Canard

Cultural Context isnt on the course this year!!!! :eek:
Wow that's carelessness...one teacher in my school did it but he fixed it like :rolleyes:
I'm doing CG and my theme is growing up in the third world and its difficulty, whats yours? Maybe I can help

Inimitable

Do you create your own theme in HL English?

biohaiid

Patchy~ wrote: »

Cultural Context isnt on the course this year!!!! :eek:
Wow that's carelessness...one teacher in my school did it but he fixed it like :rolleyes:
I'm doing CG and my theme is growing up in the third world and its difficulty, whats yours? Maybe I can help

I know, I was so pissed when I found out :O
I still havent mentioned it to him yet, and most of our class think we're doing cultural context as far as I know.
Thats the thing I dont have one, he hasnt done them at ALL with us, for any texts.
Whats your other texts and how does that link to them?
I cant think of one that links all mine together

biohaiid

Inimitable wrote: »

Do you create your own theme in HL English?

Yeah you pick one theme and write about it no matter what comes up

Hayezer

biohaiid wrote: »

Does anyone know for sure that the three modes coming up are General V&V
, Theme/Issue and Lit. Genre?
What about Cultural Context?
And also, anyone studying The Great Gatsby, Sive and The Constant Gardener?
Or even one of those?
Have like zero notes and any of them, and any helo would be much apprecicated.
Especially on theme or issue as we havent done it at all, but CC instead.

Seriously, tell your teacher about the cultural context thing. That's terrible

biohaiid

Hayezer wrote: »

Seriously, tell your teacher about the cultural context thing. That's terrible

Yeah I plan to just been busy with orals and stuff.
I hope he didnt give notes on it some day I wasnt in or something or id fell very very stupid. :L

Canard

biohaiid wrote: »

I know, I was so pissed when I found out :O
I still havent mentioned it to him yet, and most of our class think we're doing cultural context as far as I know.
Thats the thing I dont have one, he hasnt done them at ALL with us, for any texts.
Whats your other texts and how does that link to them?
I cant think of one that links all mine together

Jeeeeeeeeeeez that is stupid...I'd really tell him asap!
My other two texts are the kite runner and purple hibiscus, tbh CG is a bit different to them and we use it for the (a) parts because KR and PH are shockingly similar :pac: One of the other classes does Gatsby with Atonement and something else with the theme of unrequited love, so I really dont know if that might link to CG. You could leave theme out, and its not meant to be coming up this year, but its not too different to GV+V from what we've done and Literary Genre is meant to be pretty awful so we left that out - maybe your teacher will do LG and GV+V?

biohaiid

Patchy~ wrote: »

Jeeeeeeeeeeez that is stupid...I'd really tell him asap!
My other two texts are the kite runner and purple hibiscus, tbh CG is a bit different to them and we use it for the (a) parts because KR and PH are shockingly similar :pac: One of the other classes does Gatsby with Atonement and something else with the theme of unrequited love, so I really dont know if that might link to CG. You could leave theme out, and its not meant to be coming up this year, but its not too different to GV+V from what we've done and Literary Genre is meant to be pretty awful so we left that out - maybe your teacher will do LG and GV+V?

I think I will!hah
Thats like ours, sive and cg are similar and then gatsby is just completley out of the blue
Hmm yeah unrequited could work I think!
Yeah weve done GV and LG, but he told us not to really focus on LG so were pretty much screwed in june if we dont sort out this theme thing pretty soon haha

Thanks for the help

Canard

Hmm, as long as you tell him about the CC thing you should be fine :P
No problem, hope it works out okay for you.

biohaiid

Hi!
Just wondering now would it be too late to change my texts to Dancing at Lunasa, Inside im dancing and how many miles to babylon?
I have pretty good notes on them, even though I dont have a clue what happens in the story.
What would be the best option at this stage?

Cruel Sun

For the comparative would comparing genre, setting, relationships, humour and the resolution of the three texts be enough? Hoping for an A, or at least B1.

For the theme question, theme being "love", would comparing maternal, romantic and unrequited love be enough. I'm concerned that romantic and unrequited love are quite similar and overlap in some of the texts. Should I combine them and also do platonic love.

Cruel Sun

Martin_94 wrote: »

For the comparative would comparing genre, setting, relationships, humour and the resolution of the three texts be enough? Hoping for an A, or at least B1.

For the theme question, theme being "love", would comparing maternal, romantic and unrequited love be enough. I'm concerned that romantic and unrequited love are quite similar and overlap in some of the texts. Should I combine them and also do platonic love.

Anyone ???

ViveLaVie

Martin_94 wrote: »

For the comparative would comparing genre, setting, relationships, humour and the resolution of the three texts be enough? Hoping for an A, or at least B1.

For the theme question, theme being "love", would comparing maternal, romantic and unrequited love be enough. I'm concerned that romantic and unrequited love are quite similar and overlap in some of the texts. Should I combine them and also do platonic love.

Under what heading would you be comparing genre, setting, relationships etc?

As you have three texts to discuss, comparing maternal and romantic love would certainly be enough. You can squeeze in platonic if you are really looking to fill it up...but if you want a high grade you should be able to find enough material to compare just those two types of love.

Out of interest, what texts are you studying?

Cruel Sun

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Under what heading would you be comparing genre, setting, relationships etc?

As you have three texts to discuss, comparing maternal and romantic love would certainly be enough. You can squeeze in platonic if you are really looking to fill it up...but if you want a high grade you should be able to find enough material to compare just those two types of love.

Out of interest, what texts are you studying?

For the literary genre question, would comparing genre, setting, relationships, humour and resolution be enough.

I'm studying Dancing at Lughnasa, Inside I'm Dancing and How Many Miles To Babylon.

ViveLaVie

I think you're getting a bit bogged down here. There's no need to squeeze all of that into a literary genre question. You're being asked how the texts fit into a certain genre, not about everything the texts explore. Broadly speaking, genre refers to the manner in which the story is told e.g. for Wuthering Heights an embedded, layered narrative with an unreliable narrator - a gothic Romantic text. So you would discuss why and how the text uses these techniques and how it displays gothic elements as well as elements of Romanticism. I'm not familiar with the texts you're studying specifically, however. Yes humour may be an important thing to discuss if for example the genre of the texts is comedy and in this case resolution would also come into play. Is the text a play, film, novel, autobiography or biography? How does the format of the text affect the story?
Who is the narrator and are they reliable? Is it told in the first person narrative or the third person narrative?
How do the techniques employed by the author manipulate how we relate to certain characters and the way that they react to certain situations?
Is the ending shocking or expected?
Is the story told in chronological order or is the timing of events disorganised? Are there flashbacks or digressions? Stream-of-consciousness?

AllyMcFearless

I'm studying The Constant Gardener, A Whistle in the Dark and Never Let Me Go. If anybody is doing any of these, help would be appreciated!

Also Biohaiid, what do you have on the Constant Gardener so far? I have decent-ish notes.

fizzyorange

Was just wondering if anyone is doing the same texts as myself, and if so how are you structuring you LG and GV+V questions? I'm going to try write out a plan for both now but I'm struggling.

I'm doing Wuthering Heights, How Many Miles to Babylon and Casablanca.

ViveLaVie

fizzyorange wrote: »

Was just wondering if anyone is doing the same texts as myself, and if so how are you structuring you LG and GV+V questions? I'm going to try write out a plan for both now but I'm struggling.

I'm doing Wuthering Heights, How Many Miles to Babylon and Casablanca.

Thesis Statement i.e. the question on the paper.

Section One: Name all of the texts you are studying and how they relate to the question. If your GV&V is negative and dark you would briefly state how the texts are dark e.g. Wuthering Heights is a dark text because the protagonist is obsessed with revenge after he is spurned by Catherine etc. State your primary text and how you will examine that first and then compare it to your other texts.

Section Two: Discuss the primary text only. Examine a few key scenes in the novel that have evidence for your argument.

Section Three: Discuss the key scenes in your next text, but keep comparing them to those in the first text. Make sure you keep making comparative comments. The more you have, the more marks you get. Do not spend any time discussing the second text on its own. Everything you say must be compared to the primary text.

Section Four: Discuss the key scenes in the third text, in relation to both of the previous texts. Again, everything must be a comparison.

Section Five: Conclusion.

Benedrum

ViveLaVie wrote: »

Thesis Statement i.e. the question on the paper.

Section One: Name all of the texts you are studying and how they relate to the question. If your GV&V is negative and dark you would briefly state how the texts are dark e.g. Wuthering Heights is a dark text because the protagonist is obsessed with revenge after he is spurned by Catherine etc. State your primary text and how you will examine that first and then compare it to your other texts.

Section Two: Discuss the primary text only. Examine a few key scenes in the novel that have evidence for your argument.

Section Three: Discuss the key scenes in your next text, but keep comparing them to those in the first text. Make sure you keep making comparative comments. The more you have, the more marks you get. Do not spend any time discussing the second text on its own. Everything you say must be compared to the primary text.

Section Four: Discuss the key scenes in the third text, in relation to both of the previous texts. Again, everything must be a comparison.

Section Five: Conclusion.

Is this format for just the GV&V or for a general format for any theme? It's very helpful though, because i really wasn't sure how to go about structuring it!

ViveLaVie

Benedrum wrote: »

Is this format for just the GV&V or for a general format for any theme? It's very helpful though, because i really wasn't sure how to go about structuring it!

That'd be a general format for any theme! And make sure you always keep your p.c.l.m. in mind.

Benedrum

Another question, how long does the essay have to be? Im guessing the first and last paragraphs would be relatively short, and the three middle paragraphs significantly longer, and all about equal length? But how long for the essay as a whole, 4 pages?

SeanMadd

Does anyone know how to about the Theme/Issue question? I'm only starting it now(Yes, I know:rolleyes:) and don't know how to start off. Are we allowed to just write about one text per paragraph(as mentioned above), or do we need topics? My theme is identity and I just don't know how I go about doing the essay. I have 3 topics I can use such as Setting, father figures and friends.

ViveLaVie

SeanMadd wrote: »

Does anyone know how to about the Theme/Issue question? I'm only starting it now(Yes, I know:rolleyes:) and don't know how to start off. Are we allowed to just write about one text per paragraph(as mentioned above), or do we need topics? My theme is identity and I just don't know how I go about doing the essay. I have 3 topics I can use such as Setting, father figures and friends.

There's no limit in terms of paragraphs. One paragraph per text is not what was stated above. Rather, it is one section per text. A section may be comprised of a number of paragraphs.

Can you elaborate on how the setting, father figures and friends are relevant to the theme of identity in the texts you're discussing?

SeanMadd

ViveLaVie wrote: »

There's no limit in terms of paragraphs. One paragraph per text is not what was stated above. Rather, it is one section per text. A section may be comprised of a number of paragraphs.

Can you elaborate on how the setting, father figures and friends are relevant to the theme of identity in the texts you're discussing?

Sorry, I meant section :rolleyes: Well my texts are The Kite Runner, Dancing at Lughnasa and I'm not scared. I was going to write how the setting of each text shapes the main character's identity(and it's what readers initially identify the characters with). Then how each character's father forms their identity, and how their friends do too(or lack of, if I'm mentioning Michael in DAL )

Wkds

Can someone please help me!? I'm really struggling with this GVV craic. Was 100% sure LG is going to come up and only planned on studying that, but now I am having 2nd thoughts so I'm thinking of doing The Gvv as well just to cover my back. I can't seem to grasp the concept of it though and won't be in school again to ask my teacher. Do you just take certain elements of the texts and compare them or what? I always hear people going on about optimism and pessimism but I'm fairly lost tbh

biohaiid

Wkds wrote: »

Can someone please help me!? I'm really struggling with this GVV craic. Was 100% sure LG is going to come up and only planned on studying that, but now I am having 2nd thoughts so I'm thinking of doing The Gvv as well just to cover my back. I can't seem to grasp the concept of it though and won't be in school again to ask my teacher. Do you just take certain elements of the texts and compare them or what? I always hear people going on about optimism and pessimism but I'm fairly lost tbh

Ya positive and negative is right.
I think its like the writers outlook when they were writing the piece, therefore influencing our thoughts (positive/negative).
Then again I still know **** all about comparative in general.

ViveLaVie

Benedrum wrote: »

Another question, how long does the essay have to be? Im guessing the first and last paragraphs would be relatively short, and the three middle paragraphs significantly longer, and all about equal length? But how long for the essay as a whole, 4 pages?

It all depends on how quickly you can write under pressure and how many points you have to make. I remember writing abut five or six pages but I am a very fast writer and I know a few people who only wrote three or four and they did fine, so don't worry too much about the length. Quality over quantity!

SeanMadd wrote: »

Sorry, I meant section :rolleyes: Well my texts are The Kite Runner, Dancing at Lughnasa and I'm not scared. I was going to write how the setting of each text shapes the main character's identity(and it's what readers initially identify the characters with). Then how each character's father forms their identity, and how their friends do too(or lack of, if I'm mentioning Michael in DAL )

Well I'm not familiar with those texts unfortunately, but as long as you can clearly provide evidence for how each of those things shapes the identity of the main character in each text, then that is absolutely fine. It's very good to structure your essay into different sections either way.

Wkds wrote: »

Can someone please help me!? I'm really struggling with this GVV craic. Was 100% sure LG is going to come up and only planned on studying that, but now I am having 2nd thoughts so I'm thinking of doing The Gvv as well just to cover my back. I can't seem to grasp the concept of it though and won't be in school again to ask my teacher. Do you just take certain elements of the texts and compare them or what? I always hear people going on about optimism and pessimism but I'm fairly lost tbh(

biohaiid wrote: »

Ya positive and negative is right.
I think its like the writers outlook when they were writing the piece, therefore influencing our thoughts (positive/negative).
Then again I still know **** all about comparative in general.

I would definitely recommend that you prepare for GV&V too!

Okay, so there seems to be some confusion as to what the GV&V is. Don't worry, it's actually very simple. How did you feel reading the text? Were you full of hope for the main character and his/her prospects? Was the ending happy? Was it tragic? Did the text make you despair and question the value of life?

The one advantage with the Leaving Cert English exam is that Paper Two is entirely based around your personal response. It's all about your opinion and evaluation of the texts.

I remember doing this particular comparative in school and the teacher said we should say that the GV&V was a positive, hopeful one. I completely disagreed. I thought the texts we did were horribly negative and hopeless and I argued with her. After laying out my reasons for my point of view, my teacher agreed that I should write from my own experience of the texts.

So, look at key scenes that really struck you and the ending in each text. If your overall opinion/feeling is that the story is full of happiness/hope then your GV&V is one of positivity and optimism. If you feel negative, then it's negative. And if it's a mixture or ambiguous then it is perfectly valid to say that too.

Then when you write your essay, select maybe one or two key scenes that highlight these feelings/show how negative/optimistic the text is. Make sure to mention the ending.

Best of luck!

SeanMadd

Just on the note of GV+V(above).. Is it okay to say that 2 texts are optimistic and the other is pessimisstic?

Wesc.

SeanMadd wrote: »

Just on the note of GV+V(above).. Is it okay to say that 2 texts are optimistic and the other is pessimisstic?

Yes, that's even better actually!

ViveLaVie

Wesc. wrote: »

Yes, that's even better actually!

Agreed!

Remember to keep emphasising your feelings and your opinions. And make sure you clearly show how the scenes you've chosen are negative/optimistic/ambiguous in their outlook.

A lot of students lose marks in the comparative because they forget to actually compare the texts i.e. they start discussing the key scenes of each text and how they relate to the question asked but forget to constantly compare the texts to each-other.

The more comparative comments you have, the more marks you'll get. When I wrote my practice essays I used to write 'cc' above every comment I made that compared two or more texts. At the end I counted them and if I didn't have a decent number I'd add in some more.

fizzyorange

Just rereading the only two comparative essays I've ever wrote (I know, I know) and I just realized that I have never put any quotes in them.

How many quotes are you putting per paragraph if a general 5-6 paragraph answer?

Canard

I dont put any quotes in :L
Theres one part in one of our books where the dad hits the mam with a table and causes a miscarriage and she tells her sister "my blood died on that floor", or in the movie when the little girl will reach a refugee camp "if shes lucky", but that fits in anyway. I didnt learn off quotations, and I'm in ****e if we were supposed to!

fizzyorange

Oh thank god. I have a few basic ones ie "I am Heathcliff" "because I am an officer they leave me with my shoelaces, pen and paper" and a few from Casablanca that everyone knows, might slot in a few in the day just in case. Oh comparative, you'll be the end of me.

Canard

I looooooooooveeeeee comparative, its so straightforward I find, I mean they barely change the question. The key seems to be "similarly", "we see this reflected in..." and stuff like that. No quotes needed I hope. Maybe for Literary Genre but we left that out. :cool:

SeanMadd

I'm also wondering if quotes are that important? One of my texts is an Italian film so I'm kind of limited :pac:

ViveLaVie

fizzyorange wrote: »

Just rereading the only two comparative essays I've ever wrote (I know, I know) and I just realized that I have never put any quotes in them.

How many quotes are you putting per paragraph if a general 5-6 paragraph answer?

SeanMadd wrote: »

I'm also wondering if quotes are that important? One of my texts is an Italian film so I'm kind of limited :pac:

Quotes aren't the most important thing. Yes, it is helpful to have them, but you won't/shouldn't be marked down if you demonstrate a detailed knowledge of each text and you have a strong argument.

Learn a few easy ones for each text and if you can't learn any more than that, don't stress about it.

Paraphrasing is your friend here e.g. when Cathy said she could never marry Heathcliff in the kitchen because it would be degrading for someone in her position.... By doing that, you've shown you know the scene well but you haven't actually quoted.

A few quotes per text, along with a few paraphrased sentences and detailed discussion of key scenes will go a long way.

biohaiid

I still havent touched comparative. Dreading it

staceyb

biohaiid wrote: »

I still havent touched comparative. Dreading it

Oh thank god I'm not the only one! First and only comparative I did was in the mocks and I got a D

Carsloane

biohaiid wrote: »

Hi!
Just wondering now would it be too late to change my texts to Dancing at Lunasa, Inside im dancing and how many miles to babylon?
I have pretty good notes on them, even though I dont have a clue what happens in the story.
What would be the best option at this stage?

There are great comparisons between D.A.L & I.I.D.
The feeling of isolation from society ( I think is the most obvious )
The need for Liberation and self-expression/trying to pursue emotional independence

My son is doing his leaving Cert and only concentrating on the above two texts, as advised by the teacher.

I'm also thinking of the cultural context in relation to conflict? D.A.L - they are fearful of going against tradition, eg religion and trying to abide by the rules of the then society and what is expected. Whereas, in I.I.D...there is much more of a rebellious theme going on.