Simple Roundabout question.

positron

See the following carefully illustrated (!!) scenario about sharing a two lane roundabout sharing a two-lane and another road user.

Imagine you are in control of Car B and you are planning to go stay on the left / outside lane of the roundabout, and exit at 12'o clock (straight ahead).

There's a car, Car A, that has already entered the roundabout from your right, and is indicating to take the same exit, and as it is the 3'o clock exit to Car A, they are correctly on the inside lane.

Question: Is it okay for you enter the roundabout straight away, and negotiate who takes the exit first while both cars get there, or would you rather wait for Car A to go past you before you enter the roundabout. And which is the right thing to do?



Thanks!

corktina

:eek:Oh no......:rolleyes:

Kristopherus

IIRC you have to yield to traffic that is already in the roundabout.

Owryan

Myself, in that situation I wait till car A has passed me and if the way is clear then I enter the roundabout.

But I m probably wrong and will be corrected in due course :-p

Zubeneschamali

positron wrote: »

Question: Is it okay for you enter the roundabout straight away

Yes, of course, your lane is clear, on you go.

Jimbob 83

Enter the roundabout on the outside lane and merge with the other car into the one lane using common sense with one person givining way to the other depending on circumstances.

While indicating properly

glynf

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Enter the roundabout on the outside lane and merge with the other car into the one lane using common sense with one person givining way to the other depending on circumstances.

While indicating properly

+1

And allow space for car A to cross to the outer lane when exiting the roundabout.

I find even if they are in the correct lane, some people have shag all spatial awareness when on a roundabout and cut across with out even looking in their mirror, so it's wise to keep back a bit.

guil

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Enter the roundabout on the outside lane and merge with the other car into the one lane using common sense with one person givining way to the other depending on circumstances.

While indicating properly

That sounds like you want to cross the roundabout as straight as possible

Op you don't know what exit they are taking till they pass you but if the 2 cars are side by side then car A has to cross car B. car b has right of way

CiniO

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, of course, your lane is clear, on you go.

What if the other vehicle (which is already on roundabout) changes the lane to your while you are entering the rounabout into the clear lane?

Then it will be your fault, as you didn't give way to vehicle already on the roundabout.

AltAccount

I'd wait for car A to pass

biko

B and A should be able to drive at the same time since they'll use different lanes, but in real life I'd either speed up (if safe and blah blah) or wait for A to pass me.

Guy:Incognito

biko wrote: »

B and A should be able to drive at the same time since they'll use different lanes, but in real life I'd either speed up (if safe and blah blah) or wait for A to pass me.

What if theres a left turn just off the top of the pic and thats where A is going?

He's on the roundabout first so has right of way.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.288375,-6.338183&spn=0.002646,0.006968&hnear=Dublin,+County+Dublin&t=h&z=18

Zubeneschamali

CiniO wrote: »

What if the other vehicle (which is already on roundabout) changes the lane to your while you are entering the rounabout into the clear lane?

In the example given, Car A is in the right lane indicating right, I am quite entitled to enter the left lane, which is free.

If he changes lane to the left lane while indicating right and hits me, then he is at fault.

If he barges into the lane before I enter it, I brake and let him by, while yelling "INDICATE, YOU STUPID @#£;$*¬¦~ING @#~+ER!"

biko

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What if theres a left turn just off the top of the pic and thats where A is going?
He's on the roundabout first so has right of way.

Then A would have to switch lanes after the exit and wait for B to move away.
But tbh, that ecumenical

And yes, he was there first. That's why in real life I'd speed up or slow down so we wouldn't be driving side by side.
I've seen people change lanes in RBs for no reason and scrape other cars.

Guy:Incognito

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

In the example given, Car A is in the right lane indicating right, I am quite entitled to enter the left lane, which is free.

If he changes lane to the left lane while indicating right and hits me, then he is at fault.

If he barges into the lane before I enter it, I brake and let him by, while yelling "INDICATE, YOU STUPID @#£;$*¬¦~ING @#~+ER!"

Is there anything in the rules that says "give way to traffic already on the roundabout, unless you think he's not going in to the lane you want to use"?

How does he legally exit in to the left lane? He'd have to stop on the roundabout and let you clear it, what if theres a constant line of traffic coming from the left lane at the bottom?

biko wrote: »

Then A would have to switch lanes after the exit and wait for B to move away.
But tbh, that ecumenical

And yes, he was there first. That's why in real life I'd speed up or slow down so we wouldn't be driving side by side.
I've seen people change lanes in RBs for no reason and scrape other cars.

At busy times in the link I posted there can be a lot of traffic coming from where A. A lot of it then takes the left. B also has a constant stream of traffic. If A has to give way to B, you'd have a line of traffic all stopped while another line of traffic that entered the roundabout after them clears along.

Zubeneschamali

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is there anything in the rules that says "give way to traffic already on the roundabout, unless you think he's not going in to the lane you want to use"?

Here is the whole law on roundabouts:

Entering a roundabout

21. A driver shall enter a roundabout by turning to the left.

Everything else is just normal lane and junction discipline, the same as anywhere else. Give way to people already in the lane you want to join.

There is no magic "leave the entire roundabout clear in case Car A does some mad thing, because he has the magic Right Of Way" rule.

Guy:Incognito

Rules of the road:

Give way to traffic approaching from your right, unless signs, road markings or traffic lights tell you otherwise.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Here is the whole law on roundabouts:


Everything else is just normal lane and junction discipline, the same as anywhere else. Give way to people already in the lane you want to join.

There is no magic "leave the entire roundabout clear in case Car A does some mad thing, because he has the magic Right Of Way" rule.

What if theres an exit to the left of car b and car A is going straight? You wouldnt assume right of way (you beign car because he is crossing out of the inside lane and across the outside one to exit.

Zubeneschamali

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Rules of the road:

Give way to traffic approaching from your right, unless signs, road markings or traffic lights tell you otherwise.

So, you never join a motorway unless there is no traffic approaching whatsoever in any lane? Or do you merge in if the left lane is free?

Same exact rules apply on a roundabout.

Big Nasty

biko wrote: »

B and A should be able to drive at the same time since they'll use different lanes, but in real life I'd either speed up (if safe and blah blah) or wait for A to pass me.

Exactly - never assume car B is not a thicko.

Guy:Incognito

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So, you never join a motorway unless there is no traffic approaching whatsoever in any lane? Or do you merge in if the left lane is free?

Same exact rules apply on a roundabout.

A motorway has a slip road for building your speed and merging with the traffic, it's not the same as a roundabout. A roundabout is like a crossroads or a junction.

UnknownSpecies

I look at who's driving and what they're driving. I then make my decision based on the stereotype they fit into.

positron

OP here. Thanks for the replies so far. So it looks like there's no single 'right' answer to this situation so far ( not unusual ).

What prompted me to post this thread is that I was Car B - only that I was riding a motorbike. And Car A was an SUV. I decided there's more than enough room for my motorbike on my lane and for the SUV on the inside lane, and even if they want to creep into mine, that's fine too - I should be gone in seconds thru there really. But SUV guy / girl freaked out, flash, horn, finger etc. I slowed down a bit, shrugged my shoulders and gestured 'what's the problem' as I rode away. That's all. This was a few weeks ago, but it was nagging me at the back of my mind if I was wrong and/or if I gave them a freight, what if the driver was a considerate normal gent etc warning me of the potential danger I created etc.

In fairness, as a motorcycle rider, I am the only vulnerable one in that situation, and I should definitely have stayed back and let Car A thru, except when if there's another mad driver behind me - so then I am screwed for sure. So yeah, I'll play it safe next time - twist the throttle and fly if Car A looks a bit slow, or stop and wait if Car A fits any of the usual stereotypes.

PS: Roundabout in question is the Colpe cross in Drogheda, outside 'SouthGate', old Europa hotel etc. Car B (me) heading to Drogheda, and Car A coming from GrangeRath/Laytown road and also heading towards Drogheda.

PPS: If the SUV guy is here - apologies, didn't mean to scare you, and thanks for not running over me!

Zubeneschamali

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

A motorway has a slip road for building your speed and merging with the traffic, it's not the same as a roundabout.

Do you not yield to traffic when joining a motorway?

Big Nasty

I've driven through that roundabout very recently. While it is indeed a two-lane roundabout it's one of those that the individual lanes are barely wide enough for one car. So OP, the gig was you approached from the old Dublin road, the SUV had already entered the roundabout and you decided you would be quick enough on your bike to nip through ahead of her? Knowing the road I probably would have done the same but if anyone was in the wrong it was you OP (if I have read your description correctly).

Guy:Incognito

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Do you not yield to traffic when joining a motorway?

Is every road and every junction where you are joining another road the same as a motorway?

Zubeneschamali

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is every road and every junction where you are joining another road the same as a motorway?

No, some junctions have Stop signs. Those are legally different.

R.O.R

positron wrote: »

PS: Roundabout in question is the Colpe cross in Drogheda, outside 'SouthGate', old Europa hotel etc. Car B (me) heading to Drogheda, and Car A coming from GrangeRath/Laytown road and also heading towards Drogheda.

The exit you were both taking off that roundabout is only 1 lane (i'm 99% sure but will pay attention on the way home tonight), so that would leave you 100% in the wrong. I'd be pretty miffed if I was car A.

corktina

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What if theres an exit to the left of car b and car A is going straight? You wouldnt assume right of way (you beign car because he is crossing out of the inside lane and across the outside one to exit.

he would (or should) be indicating his intention, in which case you would not pull out if he was indicating to turn off at the next junction. In this case he should have been indicating right, in which case you can pull out in to the left hand lane without baulking him, but would be wise to leave him go first on turning off and merging.

positron

R.O.R wrote: »

The exit you were both taking off that roundabout is only 1 lane (i'm 99% sure but will pay attention on the way home tonight), so that would leave you 100% in the wrong. I'd be pretty miffed if I was car A.

You are probably right about that exit - it might be a cycle lane on the left of that exit, but not sure. I will double-check tonight myself.

Voy

From the diagram, it looks like car A is reversing on to the roundabout so in that case I would wait for him to pass.

positron

Voy wrote: »

From the diagram, it looks like car A is reversing on to the roundabout so in that case I would wait for him to pass.

Touché. My Paint skills have failed me!

Wossack

I woulda waited

Dont really like people doing similar to me when Im on the roundabout, so thats generally why

Guess it would be different if people were more predictable, indicated, and could actually stay in their lanes.. but anywho

djimi

I would always give way. This is Ireland; noone knows how to use roundabouts, so assuming the person is going to stay in their lane and drive the roundabout properly is a big ask. Safest thing to do is to let them pass (unless its one of those big roundabouts where you have plenty of time to get out ahead of them and turn off before they get to you).

Bohrio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Here is the whole law on roundabouts:


Everything else is just normal lane and junction discipline, the same as anywhere else. Give way to people already in the lane you want to join.

There is no magic "leave the entire roundabout clear in case Car A does some mad thing, because he has the magic Right Of Way" rule.

sorry

can see anywhere where it says everything else is just ilke a junction... i do see this

When you reach the roundabout

Give way to traffic approaching from your right, unless signs, road markings or traffic lights tell you otherwise.
Where traffic lights control the roundabout, you must obey them.
You must obey any road markings on the lanes and/or other instructions to show what lane to use if you intend to take a particular exit from the roundabout.
Pay attention to vehicles already on the roundabout. In particular, be aware of their signals and try to judge where they plan to exit.
Watch out for other users of the road and be aware of any cyclists or motorcyclists on your left or right.
Look forward before moving on to make sure that traffic in front of you on the roundabout has moved off. This means that you will be able to move on to the roundabout without blocking any traffic coming from your right.


If the OP enter the roundabout he will be in conflict with existing traffic as they will both exit the round about at the same exit.

Zubeneschamali

Bohrio wrote: »

can see anywhere where it says everything else is just ilke a junction... i do see this

No, not in the law, you don't. I gave a full quote of the only reference to a roundabout in the law earlier.

What you are quoting is the Rules of the Road, and nothing in it says only one vehicle can use a roundabout at a time. Why mark two lanes on a roundabout if two cars cannot go around together?

Bohrio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, not in the law, you don't. I gave a full quote of the only reference to a roundabout in the law earlier.

What you are quoting is the Rules of the Road, and nothing in it says only one vehicle can use a roundabout at a time. Why mark two lanes on a roundabout if two cars cannot go around together?

Nothing says the oppossite either. It does however say that u need to yield to incoming traffic or traffic already inside the roundabout, if it doesnt specify it means that is all vehicles... should say something though

Zubeneschamali

Bohrio wrote: »

Nothing says the oppossite either.

That's not how the law works. There are specific rules for when and how to yield at junctions. Since no special rules exist in law for roundabouts, the general rules apply.

Bohrio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's not how the law works. There are specific rules for when and how to yield at junctions. Since no special rules exist in law for roundabouts, the general rules apply.

Never heard that b4... guess i am gonna have to take ur word for it.. u wouldnt make it up of course

Zubeneschamali

This isn't hard. If a new law says that at Panda junctions you must beep your horn, that does not change all the existing rules for how to yield to traffic, even at these new Panda junctions.

Similarly, roundabouts were introduced in law by that one-line rule: you must go left at a roundabout. That's it.

So all the usual rules about yielding to traffic at a Yield sign, changing lanes, traffic lights, indicating, obeying signs and road markings are not affected by the fact that a certain junction is a roundabout.

Bohrio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

This isn't hard. If a new law says that at Panda junctions you must beep your horn, that does not change all the existing rules for how to yield to traffic, even at these new Panda junctions.

Similarly, roundabouts were introduced in law by that one-line rule: you must go left at a roundabout. That's it.

So all the usual rules about yielding to traffic at a Yield sign, changing lanes, traffic lights, indicating, obeying signs and road markings are not affected by the fact that a certain junction is a roundabout.

Well its still the same with junctions


Right of way

Traffic travelling straight ahead in either direction along a major road has right of way at all times.
If you are at a junction where the roads are of equal importance, the traffic on your right has right of way. You must let that traffic pass before moving on.. You must proceed with caution while showing regard for other users of the road.
If you are approaching a T junction, the traffic already on the road you are joining has right of way. This means any traffic on the road ending at the junction must wait for the other traffic to pass before turning left or right.
If you are turning right at a junction, the traffic coming straight through the junction from the opposite direction has right of way. It is important to understand that the right of way is not an absolute right
If you plan to turn right at a junction and a vehicle from the opposite direction wants to turn into the same road, the vehicle that is turning left has right of way. If yours is the vehicle turning right, you must wait for the other vehicle to turn first.
If you are approaching a junction with a major road, you must yield to other traffic. This means giving right of way or letting them pass before you enter the road you are joining.

Vehicles do not have an automatic right of way on the road. The overriding rule is, in all circumstances, proceed with caution.
You must also yield to:

traffic already turning at a junction,
traffic in another lane when you wish to change lanes, and
traffic on a public road when you are coming out of a private entrance.


no specific metion either

the bit in bold letters could make reference but he is clearly affecting the oth3er driver

Zubeneschamali

Is this how you see a T junction, too? If you are on the minor road joining a road with two lanes going left, and the only traffic on the major road is a guy heading left, and he's in the right lane indicating right, do you think you have to wait for him to pass before making your left into the left lane of the major road?

biko

Turns out it wasn't a simple question after all lol

Bohrio

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Is this how you see a T junction, too? If you are on the minor road joining a road with two lanes going left, and the only traffic on the major road is a guy heading left, and he's in the right lane indicating right, do you think you have to wait for him to pass before making your left into the left lane of the major road?

All im saying is that there is no mention here either

positron

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Is this how you see a T junction, too? If you are on the minor road joining a road with two lanes going left, and the only traffic on the major road is a guy heading left, and he's in the right lane indicating right, do you think you have to wait for him to pass before making your left into the left lane of the major road?

This is a very good point. A roundabout is a bendy version of a T-junction with additional exits in a way I suppose.

biko wrote: »

Turns out it wasn't a simple question after all lol

Well, the question is simple, but the answer.. if there's one....

R.O.R

positron wrote: »

Well, the question is simple, but the answer.. if there's one....

I'd say it's all a moot point anyway as it's only a 1 lane exit, so you were definately in the wrong

Stupid cycle lane through both the roundabouts (takes up roughly 1/4 of the left hand lane so doesn't leave enough room for a car and cycle next to each other) which exits on to Dublin Road in the lane before going off to the footpath.

positron

Hmm, so does one lane exit out of a two-lane roundabout make it a one-lane roundabout?

Yeah the cycle lane is funny there. It takes up 40% of the left lane between the two roundabouts, and then it disappears on the roundabout, and then it reappears after the exit. I never liked that twin-roundabout design tbh.