Tramore is bigger than Dungarvan and yet....

mike65

You'd never guess as judged by the lack of industry in the largest county town of the Waterford.

Tramore Population 2011 - 9,508

Dungarvan Population 2011 - 7,996

Does Tramore get a rough deal, dismissed as nothing more than a dormitory town for Waterford City?

Poor Uncle Tom

Dungarvan's population doesn't include Abbeyside.

Dungarvan is the administrative capital of Waterford County.

Dungarvan always had a busy port right up until the 1980's.

Dungarvan was a garrison town.

Dungarvan is on a National Primary Route.

Dungarvan was on the southern railway line until the 1960's.

Dungarvan had the Leather Factory, one of the biggest Co-op's in the country and Quigley Magnesite just out the road.

Dungarvan held weekly animal marts and monthly fairs, Monday is still mart day.

Dungarvan was always a market town and has the fertile horticultural hinter lands to supply all local needs even down to today.

Psychedelic

I think one of the main problems is that Tramore cannot spend the income generated by commercial rates in the town, whereas Dungarvan can. I think the Town Council's budget is something ridiculous like €60k per year. It's really the County Council who decide what gets done in the town.

You also have to remember that Tramore was smaller than Dungarvan until all the housing estates started getting built. I think it was only in the mid 2000's that Tramore' population overtook Dungarvan.

In terms of industry Tramore is too close to the city and yes will be nothing but a dormitory town in that sense. The IDA don't try to attract FDI here, as policy, as they would try to get that to the city every time (even though they haven't delivered anything substantial in years). Where in Tramore would you put any factories anyway? Why would they locate here instead of the city? It's also too close to the city to properly develop retail. Dungarvan doesn't have the problem of being close to a city.

DeiseforLiam

Just a couple of things -
Population of Tramore now exceeds 10,000 according to the 2011 census (it is one of five towns that have been reclassified as large towns).
Dungarvan town boundary extends out to the Friary (Duckspool) according to WCC website.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the city and county councils amalgamate.

looksee

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Dungarvan's population doesn't include Abbeyside.

Dungarvan is the administrative capital of Waterford County.

Dungarvan always had a busy port right up until the 1980's.

Dungarvan was a garrison town.

Dungarvan is on a National Primary Route.

Dungarvan was on the southern railway line until the 1960's.

Dungarvan had the Leather Factory, one of the biggest Co-op's in the country and Quigley Magnesite just out the road.

Dungarvan held weekly animal marts and monthly fairs, Monday is still mart day.

Dungarvan was always a market town and has the fertile horticultural hinter lands to supply all local needs even down to today.

So its on a national primary route, its an administrative capital and...it can keep itself in vegetables? Everything else is history!

Tangled

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Dungarvan's population doesn't include Abbeyside.

Unlikely, the town council covers the whole Dungarvan / Abbeyside area.



[worms]It's all the one town ya know...[/worms]

Poor Uncle Tom

looksee wrote: »

Everything else is history!

That's really the point I was making, why Dungarvan was established as a much larger town then any of the others. You will notice I didn't mention any of the existing industries in the town...;)

Tangled wrote: »

Unlikely, the town council covers the whole Dungarvan / Abbeyside area.

[snakes]I forgot the question mark...:rolleyes:[/snakes]

Max Powers

Because Tramore is so near to Waterford City, there is no need/probably no market there for a cinema/shopping centre etc and it benefits from facilities in Waterford City quite easily. Waterford city is near enough Waterford City for residents to easily get into the city for shopping etc. Tramore needs to concentrate on its tourist product, more and better facilities like golf courses, indoor activites etc then more restaurants etc will follow when more people start visiting there.

enemylines

Max Powers wrote: »

Because Tramore is so near to Waterford City, there is no need/probably no market there for a cinema/shopping centre etc and it benefits from facilities in Waterford City quite easily. Waterford city is near enough Waterford City for residents to easily get into the city for shopping etc. Tramore needs to concentrate on its tourist product, more and better facilities like golf courses, indoor activites etc then more restaurants etc will follow when more people start visiting there.

Tramore needs to recognise its strength. We have lousy representation on Waterford Co. Council. We need to be more vocal on local needs.
Also, the town needs a 4 star hotel. Weddings leave the town every week.
the new newspaper could be the catalyst, campaigning for more attention from the Co. Council.
As all the new property taxes come on stream Tramore will become a major income source. Let's hope we will be ready to capitalise on this and not have our local taxes leaking to the west of the county.

wellboy76

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

Dungarvan's population doesn't include Abbeyside.

Dungarvan is the administrative capital of Waterford County.

Dungarvan always had a busy port right up until the 1980's.

Dungarvan was a garrison town.

Dungarvan is on a National Primary Route.

Dungarvan was on the southern railway line until the 1960's.

Dungarvan had the Leather Factory, one of the biggest Co-op's in the country and Quigley Magnesite just out the road.

Dungarvan held weekly animal marts and monthly fairs, Monday is still mart day.

Dungarvan was always a market town and has the fertile horticultural hinter lands to supply all local needs even down to today.

And Kilkenny was a city just to keep Cromwell happy, your point is?

charlemont

Tangled wrote: »

Unlikely, the town council covers the whole Dungarvan / Abbeyside area.



[worms]It's all the one town ya know...[/worms]

That is true.

Poor Uncle Tom

wellboy76 wrote: »

And Kilkenny was a city just to keep Cromwell happy, your point is?

My point is that in recent history these items helped keep Dungarvan ahead of other county towns in prominence. I don't think the importance of the harbour/port in Dungarvan is taken account of enough when weighing up the prominence of the town.
http://www.waterfordcoco.ie/en/services/archives/archivecollections/dungarvantowncouncilcollection/
That can explain it a hell of a lot better then I can and maybe it can help you get a sense of place for how valuable Dungarvan actually was, through history because of it's port and exporting local produce.

Maybe it is time to change the emphasis of which town in the county should rate most prominent, but should that be decided on population alone? Dungarvan has had an administrative body for hundreds of years whereas Tramore has not. In fact some of the administrative powers Tramore Town Council had were taken away by Waterford County Council very recently.

looksee

Given the shape of Waterford county it makes sense to have a major centre in the west of the county. I do not for a moment expect that the main administrative centre will move to Tramore. I am one of the people who would agree that Tramore being linked to Waterford city would be a good idea.

However, if the CoCo prefers the situation to stay as it is, it is necessary for Dungarvan to recognise that there is a major centre of population at this end of the county and be a bit more proactive about our development. If it is felt that the county cannot afford to support two centres of population, especially given Tramore's role as a dormitory for Waterford, then there needs to be serious thought given to allowing us to be part of the city.

I would not like to see the preserved marsh lands encroached on, but the old tramore road/ airport road and the ORR have already skirted them. In years to come what would effectively be a green belt within the city environs would be seen as wise planning.

Poor Uncle Tom

The rail link should never have been closed.

mike65

Indeed but in 1960 one can see why no one saw any future in it, that said not ripping up the line wouldn't have cost anything to speak of.

tipp86

Op makes a terrible point based on numbers. I know people who use Dungarvan as there main town from areas such as Clashmore, Ballymac both villages which are a substansial distance from Dungarvan.

Im sure if a survey was done on the amount of people who need to use Dungarvan for key services as opposed to people who use Tramore the numbers would be very different.

cherrieblossom

dungarvan is a long established settlement , with settlement dateing back to early christian times, it has a castle built in norman times, in contrast tramore was little more than a minor settlement until it was developed in the late 18th centuary mostly as a dormatory town to waterford as a resort town
it is like comparing apples and oranges both are fruit but one has been here in ireland for much longer

looksee

cherrieblossom wrote: »

dungarvan is a long established settlement , with settlement dateing back to early christian times, it has a castle built in norman times, in contrast tramore was little more than a minor settlement until it was developed in the late 18th centuary mostly as a dormatory town to waterford as a resort town
it is like comparing apples and oranges both are fruit but one has been here in ireland for much longer

Tramore has numerous megalithic structures that predate Christianity. These are as irrelevant to the discussion as Dungarvan's castle.

cherrieblossom

looksee wrote: »

Tramore has numerous megalithic structures that predate Christianity. These are as irrelevant to the discussion as Dungarvan's castle.

My point is that the reason there is less industry in tramore is historic. It has only been settled to any significant extent since 1785. Its primary role was as a resort town for waterford city. Tramore is a beautiful town in a lovely location and that is probably why so many people choose to live there. The point about the castle is that is a symbol of strategic power dating back around 800 years and historically industry followed the money, monastries, castles, farming, fishing etc. hope that clarifies this for you.