I need advice on Heart rate.

gqma0

Hi.

I've been running for around 4 years primarily to lose weight and keep fit then it became a fun activity.

I run one to 3 times a week. It's difficult to manage more than that with family/work commitments

My query is more about Heat rate average and HR zone and who

I'm 165cm tall, 71kg (ex gymnast)

I tested my resting HR over 3 nights with a Garmin HR monitor (405CX) and an android app (Heart rate monitor) and I average 48

I tested my Max HR over a series of sprint and I reach 196

My average HR when I run 5k, 10k or 21k is around 172bpm

I know this board won't give me medical advice if this is right or not but I'm seeking a recommended place to get tested. My GP can not comment on my HR training and she just said my blood pressure is excellent and all the rest.

So 2 questions:

1) How can I manage a lower HR ? I eat balanced, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke. I tried to run very 6'30''/km and stick 2, 3 accelerations but it doesn't help

2) Is there a test center that can analyze my runs ? All logged on the Garmin site.

Thanks in advance.
G

rom

gqma0 wrote: »

Hi.

I've been running for around 4 years primarily to lose weight and keep fit then it became a fun activity.

I run one to 3 times a week. It's difficult to manage more than that with family/work commitments

My query is more about Heat rate average and HR zone and who

I'm 165cm tall, 71kg (ex gymnast)

I tested my resting HR over 3 nights with a Garmin HR monitor (405CX) and an android app (Heart rate monitor) and I average 48

I tested my Max HR over a series of sprint and I reach 196

My average HR when I run 5k, 10k or 21k is around 172bpm

I know this board won't give me medical advice if this is right or not but I'm seeking a recommended place to get tested. My GP can not comment on my HR training and she just said my blood pressure is excellent and all the rest.

So 2 questions:

1) How can I manage a lower HR ? I eat balanced, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke. I tried to run very 6'30''/km and stick 2, 3 accelerations but it doesn't help

2) Is there a test center that can analyze my runs ? All logged on the Garmin site.

Thanks in advance.
G

I presume that 48 is %.
Building an aerobic base is probably what you want to do. Much information in the thread below from last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78180477

gqma0

rom wrote: »

I presume that 48 is %.
Building an aerobic base is probably what you want to do. Much information in the thread below from last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=78180477

48 beat per minute.
last year I was averaging 52 testing my HR when waking up

I will check that thread.

TFBubendorfer

gqma0 wrote: »

1) How can I manage a lower HR ? I eat balanced, don't drink alcohol, don't smoke. I tried to run very 6'30''/km and stick 2, 3 accelerations but it doesn't help

Run more. Running 3 times a week isn't much and puts a limit on the fitness you can achieve (assuming you don't do cycling on other days, but since you mentioned family commitments I presume you don't). A higher fitness level automatically produces lower HR, and doing 2-3 accelerations won't do anything for you. Just run more miles at an easy effort.

Then again, why do you even care about HR?

2) Is there a test center that can analyze my runs ? All logged on the Garmin site.

Tools like Training Peaks have plenty of analysing functions, but I find them very hard to read. Do you actually know what you're looking for when you say "analyze my runs?"

gqma0

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Run more. Running 3 times a week isn't much and puts a limit on the fitness you can achieve (assuming you don't do cycling on other days, but since you mentioned family commitments I presume you don't). A higher fitness level automatically produces lower HR, and doing 2-3 accelerations won't do anything for you. Just run more miles at an easy effort.

You're right but it's not easy managing work and kids schedule.

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Then again, why do you even care about HR?

The reason why I care is I want to make sure that I'm not overdoing. A friend of mine who's a triathlete told me my average was quite high and another cyclist friend told me the same.

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Tools like Training Peaks have plenty of analysing functions, but I find them very hard to read. Do you actually know what you're looking for when you say "analyze my runs?"

Although I'd like to reduce my time, I'm more concerned about lowering my heart rate but the answer is more mileage. It's more a concern from a medical point of view rather than performance which is why I was asking about professional sport medical center.

huskerdu

gqma0 wrote: »

The reason why I care is I want to make sure that I'm not overdoing. A friend of mine who's a triathlete told me my average was quite high and another cyclist friend told me the same.

Your medically unqualified mates think that your average HR while exercising is high, but in a previous post you said that your GP thought it was fine !

Although I'd like to reduce my time, I'm more concerned about lowering my heart rate but the answer is more mileage. It's more a concern from a medical point of view rather than performance which is why I was asking about professional sport medical center.

No-one here can tell you if a Max HR of 196 is a medical issue.
Your Resting HR is very low, which is good.

Running more should reduce your HR, and your BMI is 26, so losing some weight might help too.

But, you have no evidence that your HR is a medical problem.

If you want to have a cardiac medical check, it is possible get one, but I doubt if they will be interested in your garmin data. Most likely they will do some proper medical tests.

I would suggest run more, if you can manage it, lose a bit of weight and worrying less.

gqma0

huskerdu wrote: »

Your medically unqualified mates think that your average HR while exercising is high, but in a previous post you said that your GP thought it was fine !

No, my GP said my blood pressure is excellent but she can not say if my average is HR when running is high or not.

huskerdu wrote: »

Running more should reduce your HR, and your BMI is 26, so losing some weight might help too.

huskerdu wrote: »

I would suggest run more, if you can manage it, lose a bit of weight and worrying less.

BMI isnt relevant (confirmed by GP). I did gymnastic in my teenage years and have wide shoulders and dorsals. My waist is 31'' and I have a good abdominal core.

I'm not part of any running clubs and I was just concerned about my average heart rate. I guess I'll take on your advice and stop worrying.

Krusty_Clown

As others have suggested, if you want a lower HR while running, you need to run a lot more. 1 -3 runs per week, is not a lot. How many miles have you run so far this year (you can check this in Garmin connect's report tab).

Running 1-3 times per week will certainly help with general conditioning, but if you want more, then you need to do more. You could do a Vo2max/physiology test in one the university's labs, but you might struggle to get past the first couple of speed levels on the treadmill. So all this will tell you is that you are not very running fit.

You sound like you live a healthy lifestyle, so I wouldn't let it bother you. By the way, we all have work/family commitments. With running, it's all about how much time you are willing to commit to your specific hobby, versus other hobbies and is usually based on how much you get out of running (versus other time-stealers).

Woddle

Is it the 172 average that you want to bring down?

If so run slower on these runs, the 172 probably means that you're running them too fast.

corny

gqma0 wrote: »

I tested my Max HR over a series of sprint and I reach 196

My average HR when I run 5k, 10k or 21k is around 172bpm

Is that 172 when you're training or racing?

Its 88% of max (assuming your numbers are correct) and if thats training pace its too fast. Knock it back and run higher mileage at a more sedate pace.

b.harte

I had "an episode" during the Mallow 10 race this year, Pins and needles up my neck / back/side of my head, blood rush in my right ear followed by dulled hearing, accompanied by a greying out of my peripheral vision, in my right eye.
Needless to say I pulled up, Garmin was showing 190(ish)
When my heart rate went down (walking) I jogged (for-shame) the rest of the race chatting to others on the way.(still set a new PB):)
Because of all of the above I went and got a full cardio check out, GP had to write me up and make the necessary appointments.
I had, in this order:
ECG at GP,
Blood work,
Echo Cardiogram in outpatient clinic,
Exercise stress test (treadmill & ECG)
Then because of the inconclusive results I was admitted the following week (after seeing the cardio consultant)
While in the hospital I had;
more bloods,
Chest x-ray,
MRI with some dye to check for anything in my shoulder neck, head area.
24hr HR monitoring,
Ear examination,
Eye examination.
I got the all clear, the stress test was torture, I was advised to try to run at the upper levels to see what was going on at hight HR. I'm not sure what I got to but it was steep and fast and my HR momentarily went above 200 and was held at high 190s for a while before I wimped out. (my max HR should be 182 based on my age)
I can honestly say that my garmin would have been off the chart if I had it on, I've never had my heart work so hard.
The two things I'm trying to say (in my rambling way) are:
If you are in any way concerned about your heart get checked out medically, you only have the one and it's not nice when they don't work right.
The second point is (in my opinion) recreational HR devices are for indication purposes only, and are not super accurate, unlike calibrated medical equipment(s), a good rule for me is that if I'm just out for a run and I can't hold a conversation I'm going to hard. Not an ideal measure as I run on my own a lot. so I tend to sing to myself or count. ( but I do talk to myself as well)

Also, as others have said above do more slow runs and this will bring your fitness up / hr down. My Garmin history has shown a very obvious drop in average HR over the last few years even as my average pace and distance have risen.

In my case all of the above was due to a respiratory infection I had and went racing with. Won't do it again.
I've also noticed that my HR can vary depending on all sorts of things, how tired/fresh I am, when I ate and what I ate, how hydrated I am or even the time of day I run. It usually averages out around the same but I see spike on hills that normally would task me.

Sorry for the ramble.

jimbobaloobob

HR is a very individual value, your avg HR is going to be effected on different days by different occurences.

Rest or lack of, wind, temperature, recovery from last training session. Caffine or other stimulant intakes.

I suggest you get yourself tested, go somewhere like the anatomy department in Trinity College, they conduct testing there for VO2 max. This will arrive at a conclusion to your present fitness and allow you to see whats necessary.

Running more might be a probable benefit to you however the intensity you run at will have its say. If you just run more distance and constantly operate at too high an intensity you run the risk of burn out and not achieving your potential.

Testing isnt that expensive and it will give you concrete information so there will be no need to speculate.

rom

Much of these in UCC also http://www.ucc.ie/services/physed/human.html

jimbobaloobob

yea good point rom.

this type of test is available across the country

the ones i know of are trinity, Waterford IT, UCC and UL. No doubt theres some in the north too but i dont know where.

Point is its easily accessible and makes reason for you monitoring your heart rate.

gqma0

Thanks for the answers. Much appreciated. Took on your advice on board and I booked a test in UCD for peace of mind.

Woddle

gqma0 wrote: »

Thanks for the answers. Much appreciated. Took on your advice on board and I booked a test in UCD for peace of mind.

I'm not sure why you need this^^^.
You've got some very good advice here for free run more and slow most of the runs down.
You have a similar max heart rate to me and I know if I'm averaging 172 it's because I'm running too fast. I try to average 150 on my easy runs and that means running slow.

gqma0

Woddle wrote: »

I'm not sure why you need this^^^.
You've got some very good advice here for free run more and slow most of the runs down.
You have a similar max heart rate to me and I know if I'm averaging 172 it's because I'm running too fast. I try to average 150 on my easy runs and that means running slow.

Ran yesterday and I couldn't run any slower and I still averaged 156
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171702533

compared to last sunday
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171183950

I already ran in the past over a period of time on the slow runs but it didn't make much difference to my normal pace. Maybe my Max HR is higher or maybe I'm running too fast but I'm not running out of breathe when I'm finished. It's the same on 21k.

I'll know for sure with a test.

Woddle

The difference in heart rate in those two runs is obvious.
One was slower over a flat course while the other was at a faster pace and over a slightly hilly course so you'd expect the difference in heart rate which is normal.

I think you'd be better buying a book that can help explain the above and that has training plans.
Jack Daniels

Also it takes a while to get used to running slow, so give it time.

rom

gqma0 wrote: »

Ran yesterday and I couldn't run any slower and I still averaged 156
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171702533

compared to last sunday
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171183950

I already ran in the past over a period of time on the slow runs but it didn't make much difference to my normal pace. Maybe my Max HR is higher or maybe I'm running too fast but I'm not running out of breathe when I'm finished. It's the same on 21k.

I'll know for sure with a test.

If you run like that for a few weeks , then try 150 you will be able to do it. Its hard. it feels like a tad faster than walking tbh.

menoscemo

gqma0 wrote: »

Ran yesterday and I couldn't run any slower and I still averaged 156
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171702533

compared to last sunday
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/171183950

You have a steadily rising heartrate. That means that the longer you run the more your HR rises. In run 1 your HR rises steadily despite the fact that your pace actually slows.
This means that you have not developed a good aerobic base. Most likely reason is that you normally run too fast.
To improve it's very simple. Like the lads say run more at a fixed, low HR (in your case say 150). Try to keep the Hr at 150 constantly (you are not trying to achieve an average of 150 rather a constant reading of 150). Do this for a few weeks and you will find that you eventually get to a point where you can hold a consistent pace over your run for the same HR value. When you can do this you can start mixing in some faster or longer runs and you will find that your speeds will improve a lot.

This is the best way for you to improve your running I think.

Clearlier

There's a bit of reading in this but it'll give you pretty much all of the information that you need to train by heart rate. As meno and others have said you're almost certainly just not very fit and running too fast.

FWIW your absolute heart rate is pretty unimportant. There are plenty of people far fitter than me who will never have as low a resting heart rate as I do and there are loads of people much less fit than me who have a higher max. What's important is what your heart rate is relative to what it normally is. In other words you have to get to know your body.

gqma0

Wow. Thanks so much for the advices. I read a lot and I take all.

I will change my running habit from now on and slow down. I will post you on in a few weeks time.

Wonderful forum.

LarMan

Can I hijack this thread for a minute to avoid starting an new one. I am running a 10K on sunday and was wondering at what heart rate to run it at.

Apologies if the below is not clear but hopefully there is enough information for someone to offer an opinion.

I am running by heart rate zone and Zone 4 has a starting heart rate of 148 and up to 165. If I try to run the 10K in the middle of this zone say 156 is this sustainable for an entire race?

My resting heart rate is about 50 and my maximum heart rate is around 178 (using 220 - Age).

Basically I want to make sure I am putting in enough effort to go as fast as I can while at that same time not running so fast that I will fatigue early.

I am presuming that if I run by heart rate I will need to vary the speed but the effort (heart rate) should be sustainable all the way through, so basically if I feel tired and want to slow down and by slowing down it brings me into Zone 3 I know I should speed up to maintain that effort knowing it is sustainable.

So to sum up does it make sence to run an entire race in this zone?

ger664

Lar

Wear the monitor Sunday but do not display the readings while you are running. Go off at a pace where its fast enough that you want to stop but you can keep it going, it will be uncomfortable but it is a race its meant to be this way. For the last 2K or so give it wellie and push to the end. Sprint the last 200/400m. Check you readings after the race. I suspect you will be in for a surprise.

LarMan

thanks Ger I think that is the plan and once I see the 8K board go hell for leather for the last 2 K

thanks

menoscemo

Larman. The big problem with your zones are that you are basing your max HR on guess-work. 220-age is very inaccurate. Most people will hold more than 90% of max HR for a 10k, some will hold more than 95%. I agree with ger though. Do not display HR during the race. It will only distract you. Just run your best!

LarMan

Thanks Meno, I agree from what I've been reading it is not an accurate determination of max heart rate and at some point I will have to test myself to see what my max heart rate is.

One thing that you said which is pertinent is that most people can hold at 90% of max heart rate for a 10K. If I use the 90% max heart rate (albeit an inaccurate max heart rate) it comes out at about 160 so at least I know I am in the ball park and should just maintain the effort and I am unlikely to crash.

Anyway Sunday night will be the real test and I should have a good indication of my Max heart rate just before the finish line. (providing I put everything into the finish):D

menoscemo

Yes, if you are completely spent on the finish line and have just done a nice sprint finish, you should be close to your max