Cash deposit on site - can't get money back

curlysues89

Hi,
I would love if anyone has any thoughts about this.I paid a cash deposit on a site last year when our planning permission came through on a site i was going to buy.However when I went to the solicitor, there were so many legal complications with the site that she would not let me buy it.i paid the seller 10k CASH like he had asked from the beginning.and now he wont return any of the money once i have withdrawn from the deal.As there is no paper trail on the money i will probably never get it back.

StillWaters

I'm sorry, that sounds like a nightmare. What does your solicitor advise?

curlysues89

StillWaters wrote: »

I'm sorry, that sounds like a nightmare. What does your solicitor advise?

She says that we really don't have a hope of getting it back as i very stupidly paid cash.She has been sending his solicitor letters asking for the money back but had no reply.I feel as tho she is no real help. The seller is a local figure in our town.

silja

What does the receipt you said say in terms of a return of moneys?
Deposits are often non-refundable if the buyer pulls out...

Mr. Loverman

What was the purpose of the deposit?

zac8

silja wrote: »

Deposits are often non-refundable if the buyer pulls out...

This is only true if you buy at auction. In this case the buyer is entitled to the deposit back but it sounds as if they have no receipt.

Forest Demon

Don't give up too quick.

1. Did you pay by cheque, bank draft or was it actual cash?

2. Did your solicitor have dealings with the other persons solicitor that reference the deposit in any way? Is there nothing agreeing the price and mentioning the deposit?

3. Have you got records of withdrawing the 10k? Is the 10k mentioned with any other correspondence? Have you got phone records (voice messages or txts) saying that you are going to meet the person with the deposit or emails? at the same time as the withdrawal

4. Do you have a record of what the agreement was in the first place? Any price breakdown including the deposit?

5. Has the other person incurred costs in their dealings with you that could be deducted from the deposit when you pulled out of the deal?

6. Is the other person saying that they never got the money? (Get them to acknowledge receipt in some way. Even if they are telling you that you are not getting your money back. That will prove receipt of the money)

A verbal contract is still valid if you can back it up in some way.

StillWaters

So at the time you handed over the €10k you had not yet instructed the Solicitor, so there was no written contract or receipt?
Have you any proof at all that you paid it over, a text, something scribbled on paper, an independent witness?

theteal

on number 5 above, could the seller use falling land values as a cost?

the_syco

curlysues89 wrote: »

i paid the seller 10k CASH like he had asked from the beginning

curlysues89 wrote: »

there were so many legal complications with the site that she would not let me buy it.

See if there's a way that allows yuou to see if someone tried to buy it before. If someone has, check if they also lost money on a deposit.

curlysues89 wrote: »

The seller is a local figure in our town.

By "local figure" do you mean "chancer" or "person of good character"?

curlysues89

silja wrote: »

What does the receipt you said say in terms of a return of moneys?
Deposits are often non-refundable if the buyer pulls out...

i didnt get a receipt because i paid in cash.
and the reason we pulled out because the solicitor advised us not to buy it.the seller was writing us into a contract of maintenance into the road up to the site.When no one else on the lane had to do it.its very complicated

curlysues89

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

What was the purpose of the deposit?

the deposit was To hold the site once the planning permission was through.planning took one year. paid for everything and paid architects fees and we genuinely thought that was it then once that was through

curlysues89

Forest Demon wrote: »

Don't give up too quick.

1. Did you pay by cheque, bank draft or was it actual cash?

2. Did your solicitor have dealings with the other persons solicitor that reference the deposit in any way? Is there nothing agreeing the price and mentioning the deposit?

3. Have you got records of withdrawing the 10k? Is the 10k mentioned with any other correspondence? Have you got phone records (voice messages or txts) saying that you are going to meet the person with the deposit or emails? at the same time as the withdrawal

4. Do you have a record of what the agreement was in the first place? Any price breakdown including the deposit?

5. Has the other person incurred costs in their dealings with you that could be deducted from the deposit when you pulled out of the deal?

6. Is the other person saying that they never got the money? (Get them to acknowledge receipt in some way. Even if they are telling you that you are not getting your money back. That will prove receipt of the money)

A verbal contract is still valid if you can back it up in some way.

1.i feel like crying when writing this but we actually handed over CASH.looking back i feel so so stupid.

2. i didnt tell the solicitor until the deal fell through.i was so nervous telling her.she wrote numerous times to his solicitor that we paid cash deposit but they are not recognising it at all.the site was then agreed at a lower price that what we were going to pay him for it.

3.took the 10k out of the credit union.the withdrawal is around the time when the planning permission came through.he was very crafty.never replied to txt messages i sent.and no voice mails either.

4. no as the cash deposit wasnt included in the breakdown of the site

5. Yes he reckons his solicitor bills are extortionate!and i paid for site assessment when we were going for planning and the digger i got wasnt good enough.so he got his own digger and reckons that will incur costs also.

6. the solicitor did tell me that.but this man is soooo clued in.i know he will never do it.but it will soon be my only option.

thanks so much for all your points.I just wish i had some kind of evidence of paying it.

curlysues89

StillWaters wrote: »

So at the time you handed over the €10k you had not yet instructed the Solicitor, so there was no written contract or receipt?
Have you any proof at all that you paid it over, a text, something scribbled on paper, an independent witness?

thats correct.the solicitor didnt know that we had paid the deposit.The seller reduced the price to minus 10k and that the price we were to go to the solicitor with.I have nothing at all to prove we paid it.The only independent witness was my mother.the first day we went up to the site.the seller asked me for as much cash as i could give him.i said no way.then he would ring me and told me he would reduce the price 3k if we gave him cash.so i thought about it and decided i would.But my mother was with me that first day he asked me for it.When we handed over the money it was only myself and my boyfriend in the room.

Monty Burnz

You handed over 10k to somebody and didn't even get a receipt?! :eek:

Oh my. What does your solicitor say? Because you're not going to get any better advice here.

curlysues89

theteal wrote: »

on number 5 above, could the seller use falling land values as a cost?

he has also said this to me.that he turned down lots of offers when we were waiting on planning permission.i find this very hard to believe.as the field is 7acres.we were buying 0.5 acre of it.But he threw that out too.

curlysues89

the_syco wrote: »

See if there's a way that allows yuou to see if someone tried to buy it before. If someone has, check if they also lost money on a deposit.


By "local figure" do you mean "chancer" or "person of good character"?

the planning was denied quite a few years ago.another local couple tried to buy the site.They were denied on the condition of the road that led up to the site (that the seller wanted me to maintain) .my next move is to try and locate them and talk to them.its worth a shot.
I would definitely say chancer and He ran for local and council elections

Monty Burnz

curlysues89 wrote: »

the planning was denied quite a few years ago.another local couple tried to buy the site.They were denied on the condition of the road that led up to the site (that the seller wanted me to maintain) .my next move is to try and locate them and talk to them.its worth a shot.
I would definitely say chancer and He ran for local and council elections

Go to the police, or threaten to do so? At least they can tell you if you have any case. It sounds like theft to me.

curlysues89

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You handed over 10k to somebody and didn't even get a receipt?! :eek:

Oh my. What does your solicitor say? Because you're not going to get any better advice here.

Yes I handed that over without a receipt!!i may have just flushed it down the toilet or burned it in the fire.
The solicitor says that as there is no paper trail legally i dont have many options. However, I will report it to the guards.And im considering going to the local papers and radio station about it.he is a businessman and ran in local and council elections.so he wont like bad press.but then i wont be allowed to name him as im assuming this could lead to slander.:(

curlysues89

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Go to the police, or threaten to do so? At least they can tell you if you have any case. It sounds like theft to me.

It is theft.but how could i be so stupid to hand that over.we didnt even consider that the deal would fall through.it never once crossed my mind.i wholeheartedly trusted the beast.

Monty Burnz

curlysues89 wrote: »

It is theft.but how could i be so stupid to hand that over.we didnt even consider that the deal would fall through.it never once crossed my mind.i wholeheartedly trusted the beast.

Perhaps if you go to the police they could check his bank records and see if a lodgement of 10k turns up in the couple of days after the meeting.

curlysues89

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Perhaps if you go to the police they could check his bank records and see if a lodgement of 10k turns up in the couple of days after the meeting.

i know this crook.he will have it under his bed.

the_syco

curlysues89 wrote: »

i didnt get a receipt because i paid in cash.

Say goodbye to any chance of any refund. You have absolutely no evidence that you gave them any money. You can get a receipt if you pay cash or with stones!

curlysues89 wrote: »

my next move is to try and locate them and talk to them.its worth a shot.

No-one will ever admit to loosing ten grand, so mention that you lost money to him to see what they say; they may have given him money.

If they have given him money, get them to report it to the police, and the police may have something to go on?

Lantus

the only way your getting this back is by way of a balaclava and shotty.

Running for counciller?? Another fine example of the moral leadership this country has become accustomed too.

n900guy

curlysues89 wrote: »

Hi,
I would love if anyone has any thoughts about this.I paid a cash deposit on a site last year when our planning permission came through on a site i was going to buy.However when I went to the solicitor, there were so many legal complications with the site that she would not let me buy it.i paid the seller 10k CASH like he had asked from the beginning.and now he wont return any of the money once i have withdrawn from the deal.As there is no paper trail on the money i will probably never get it back.

So he is keeping your 10k, and you have no evidence of it having been paid.

Except the seller and the contract were clear they wanted 10k as a deposit. So if the contract is valid, you will have paid the 10k, isn't that evidence enough? Or else the contract was invalid as you never paid the 10k?

Seems like nonsense. Sue him. It will have been recorded at the time of the contract that you are bound to pay 10k as deposit. That is a receipt if the contract was proceeding as planned; it will have gotten past the stage of deposit, no? If there is any paperwork showing something else done in the contract that required the deposit as having already been paid, that is your evidence.

curlysues89

n900guy wrote: »

So he is keeping your 10k, and you have no evidence of it having been paid.

Except the seller and the contract were clear they wanted 10k as a deposit. So if the contract is valid, you will have paid the 10k, isn't that evidence enough? Or else the contract was invalid as you never paid the 10k?

Seems like nonsense. Sue him. It will have been recorded at the time of the contract that you are bound to pay 10k as deposit. That is a receipt if the contract was proceeding as planned; it will have gotten past the stage of deposit, no? If there is any paperwork showing something else done in the contract that required the deposit as having already been paid, that is your evidence.

Yes he is keeping my 10k and i have no evidence of paying him it.
the only evidence we have is that the sale hit a rock when my solicitor got a contract saying i was liable for maintenance of the road, when the 11 others on the road were not.she tried and tried to get him to take this out but he wouldn't.she advised me that this maintenance could cost me up to 80k.its a long story and said it would be very hard to sign my mortgage papers if i went ahead with it.i told the seller all this.he tried to get me to move solicitors.i wouldnt and then took her advise and with drew from the deal.he was absolutely furious.and i asked him for the money back.he said that he had lots of legal bills and digger bill.we had no contact for a 2months.i rang him and asked again and he keeps feeding me stories that he will auction the site and maybe i can some of my money back.but there is no word of this auction.

curlysues89

Lantus wrote: »

the only way your getting this back is by way of a balaclava and shotty.

Running for counciller?? Another fine example of the moral leadership this country has become accustomed too.

and we are a young couple in our 20s.and thats all our savings gone.hes a retired thief

Monty Burnz

curlysues89 wrote: »

hes a retired thief

Sounds more like he's an active thief.

Having said that, even if you get your money back, hopefully you've learned a valuable lesson. When it comes to money, be very cautious - cover yourself, avoid risk, and do your research before you save or invest in anything of value. It may have cost you 10k, but this lesson could save you 100s of k over your lifetime. Think of the money people saved by investigating the property bubble and not buying. Think of the money saved by people who investigated 'investment opportunities' and found that they were just cons.

Not much consolation now I know, but you might look back in 30 years and be glad of the lesson you learned.

Tigger

Ring him
Say hello mr whover to clarify who he is
Hell say hello
Start crying if you can't cry have a think about the ten grand for a while till you can
Beg him for the money back he will say no I can't because this reason that reason the other reason
Refer to the money over and over while arguing these details he will keep referring to it also
Keep crying so he dosent realise you are recording the phone call

Every fecker in this country seems to think you can't record phone calls or that they are non admissible but they are very admissible and you can record calls

The law is one of the parties on the call ( ie you) has to be aware of the recording then it's ok

You can verify this with whoever

If you have this you can get all your deposit back because in property deals deposits are refudable

The proof of taking it out plus his receding to it will. E enough to drag him to the court I he's running for office I doubt it will get that far you brief will have to disclose to his at some point and that will be that

Tigger

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Sounds more like he's an active thief.

Having said that, even if you get your money back, hopefully you've learned a valuable lesson. When it comes to money, be very cautious - cover yourself, avoid risk, and do your research before you save or invest in anything of value. It may have cost you 10k, but this lesson could save you 100s of k over your lifetime. Think of the money people saved by investigating the property bubble and not buying. Think of the money saved by people who investigated 'investment opportunities' and found that they were just cons.

Not much consolation now I know, but you might look back in 30 years and be glad of the lesson you learned.

I'll give you a better lesson to learn
Fight the baxtards of this world
Learn the rules of being on top of this midden heap of a country

" lose if you must win if you can but always cheat"
That will give you more then a hypothetical future where you don't lose money again that will give you the tools and pride to deal with these types on their own level.

StillWaters

Is this crook still answering your calls? Could you ring him to discuss getting your 10k back after the 'auction' and set your phone to record. It's probably not admissible in court but it will be something!

Monty Burnz

Tigger wrote: »

I'll give you a better lesson to learn
Fight the baxtards of this world
Learn the rules of being on top of this midden heap of a country

" lose if you must win if you can but always cheat"
That will give you more then a hypothetical future where you don't lose money again that will give you the tools and pride to deal with these types on their own level.

So 'learn to be a crook' is a better lesson to learn?

Tigger

Monty Burnz wrote: »

So 'learn to be a crook' is a better lesson to learn?

No dude learn to fight a crook is the lesson to learn

Tools to deal with baxtards should only be use against baxtards

I retread my post and it was quite clear that I ment to fight dirty against the dirty
I'm sorry if you think I'm anything but a gentleman till someone steals 10 grand

Monty Burnz

Tigger wrote: »

No dude learn to fight a crook is the lesson to learn

The crook certainly deserves any sh!t that comes his way. Yeah, I'm taking it for granted that the OP will make him earn his stolen money.

Victor

Tigger wrote: »

Ring him
Say hello mr whover to clarify who he is
Hell say hello
Start crying if you can't cry have a think about the ten grand for a while till you can
Beg him for the money back he will say no I can't because this reason that reason the other reason
Refer to the money over and over while arguing these details he will keep referring to it also
Keep crying so he dosent realise you are recording the phone call

Every fecker in this country seems to think you can't record phone calls or that they are non admissible but they are very admissible and you can record calls

The law is one of the parties on the call ( ie you) has to be aware of the recording then it's ok

You can verify this with whoever

If you have this you can get all your deposit back because in property deals deposits are refudable

The proof of taking it out plus his receding to it will. E enough to drag him to the court I he's running for office I doubt it will get that far you brief will have to disclose to his at some point and that will be that

It is very difficult to use such a recording in court.

curlysues89

StillWaters wrote: »

Is this crook still answering your calls? Could you ring him to discuss getting your 10k back after the 'auction' and set your phone to record. It's probably not admissible in court but it will be something!

he is answering every call i made to him.hes been super nice which is so annoying.I didnt realise you could record like that on your phone.ill look into that today and ring him again this wk.

RoverZT

Tigger wrote: »

Ring him
Say hello mr whover to clarify who he is
Hell say hello
Start crying if you can't cry have a think about the ten grand for a while till you can
Beg him for the money back he will say no I can't because this reason that reason the other reason
Refer to the money over and over while arguing these details he will keep referring to it also
Keep crying so he dosent realise you are recording the phone call

Every fecker in this country seems to think you can't record phone calls or that they are non admissible but they are very admissible and you can record calls

The law is one of the parties on the call ( ie you) has to be aware of the recording then it's ok

You can verify this with whoever

If you have this you can get all your deposit back because in property deals deposits are refudable

The proof of taking it out plus his receding to it will. E enough to drag him to the court I he's running for office I doubt it will get that far you brief will have to disclose to his at some point and that will be that

Very good idea.

You have to try this OP.

In my work place one of my colleagues always records the meetings between staff and management and when he is off another person takes over from him in recording the meetings

It has worked a few times, with management been caught telling lies and been forced to go back on it.

the groutch

curlysues89 wrote: »

Hi,
I would love if anyone has any thoughts about this.I paid a cash deposit on a site last year when our planning permission came through on a site i was going to buy.However when I went to the solicitor, there were so many legal complications with the site that she would not let me buy it.i paid the seller 10k CASH like he had asked from the beginning.and now he wont return any of the money once i have withdrawn from the deal.As there is no paper trail on the money i will probably never get it back.

your solicitor isnt the one who decides whether you buy it or not, make them do their job or move onto another solicitor

hmmm

This is disgusting - if it was me I'd get everything I could in writing and consider naming him in public. You'd better check the legal implications first.

Spiritofthekop

Threaten to go to the local papers & radio etc etc. Get the story all written down so the radio will run with it. Let him know you mean business.

I know of a girl that was owed 15,000 from a supposed friend form a car sale, the guy ran of to Spain..she tried the nice approach for 2 years but only got a few hundred of him while he lived it up in Spain. She went public on FB and told all his friends what he had done & they turned on him very quickly. He paid her back every penny in instalments within 3 months.


He will soon pay up if he thinks the local town are going to know he is a thief!

curlysues89

Spiritofthekop wrote: »

Threaten to go to the local papers & radio etc etc. Get the story all written down so the radio will run with it. Let him know you mean business.

I know of a girl that was owed 15,000 from a supposed friend form a car sale, the guy ran of to Spain..she tried the nice approach for 2 years but only got a few hundred of him while he lived it up in Spain. She went public on FB and told all his friends what he had done & they turned on him very quickly. He paid her back every penny in instalments within 3 months.


He will soon pay up if he thinks the local town are going to know he is a thief!

This is another move im going to have to think about.People will know how stupid i was tho,handing over that cash.But I really would do anything.But i must look into the legal side as I know I wont be allowed to name him.but I can give hints that will make people realize who he is.

curlysues89

the groutch wrote: »

your solicitor isnt the one who decides whether you buy it or not, make them do their job or move onto another solicitor

But sure now I've seen how that man operates and don't want any land next or near him.And i don't want legal obligations, due to a road hanging over me either.So i think leaving the site alone is a good decision that I made.

curlysues89

Victor wrote: »

It is very difficult to use such a recording in court.

Can you explain why?Suppose written proof would be better.