Whats the story with entitlements?

eamon11

Hello,

I farm my fathers farm for him. Just labouring in my spare time really.
Anyway, he is getting on and I want to know more about the paperwork side of things.
How is an entitlement decided? Who puts the value on it? How can I buy entitlements and how would they fit in with our farm? Why are some entitlements 150 euro per hectare, others 600 ?
We have 20 hectares. 15 get entitlements of 150 per year SFP. How can I increase this?

Thanks a lot,

Eamon

5live

eamon11 wrote: »

Hello,

I farm my fathers farm for him. Just labouring in my spare time really.
Anyway, he is getting on and I want to know more about the paperwork side of things.
How is an entitlement decided? Who puts the value on it? How can I buy entitlements and how would they fit in with our farm? Why are some entitlements 150 euro per hectare, others 600 ?
We have 20 hectares. 15 get entitlements of 150 per year SFP. How can I increase this?

Thanks a lot,

Eamon

Entitlements are based on the premiums and area aid the farm recieved over 10 years ago. If you had lots of stock/tillage you would have high entitlements, less stock/tillage less entitlements and no stock/tillage no entitlements.

You can buy entitlements or sell them through auctioneers, either locally or advertised in the farming press.

You have 5 ha with no entitlements so you could buy entitlements to claim on this land. Or you could sell all/some of your entitlements and buy 20 to replace them at higher values. Or indeed, lower values.

There are huge changes coming on the values of entitlements so you had best discuss with someone what MAY be happening in 2014 onwards. There are a number of threads on here thay may help like this one

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69151999

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=69151999

eamon11

5live you are are shrove of information and thank you kindly. Also like to say that I appreciate you taking the time and willingly sharing your knowledge with a young green buck like me.

the 5 hectares is deemed too corse to graze. Does This mean I cannot claim on it? Is it worth it to sell my entitlements or buy new ones? And is it so easy as that?

5live

eamon11 wrote: »

5live you are are shrove of information and thank you kindly. Also like to say that I appreciate you taking the time and willingly sharing your knowledge with a young green buck like me.

the 5 hectares is deemed too corse to graze. Does This mean I cannot claim on it? Is it worth it to sell my entitlements or buy new ones? And is it so easy as that?

Jaysus im not that old:eek::eek:.

The going rates, from what i saw in the journal a few weeks ago, was 1.2 times lower rates ie buy/sell 100 euro entitlements for 120 euro up to say 400 euro entitlements fof 700 euro. Plus comission of 3% i think. So you could sell yours, depending on demand, for say 180 and buy 300 euro ones for cay 450 each. Now you will have to pay Capital Gains Tax on your sales as well i think.

As to whether you should sell, i have no idea:(. If they are going to level out the entitlements values at the national average i would say buy 5 lower ones and dont sell your own as in 7-8 years they will all be worth 270 each with the differences being made up over 5 to 7 years. That is the comissioners favoured result. There are proposals to drop the largest values, ie top20% down by 20%, next 20%down by 10%, middles hold their values, next 20% up by 10% and lowest 20% up by 20%. Or proposals to do just about anything really including holding them the same.

There are definately 2 more years with current values and possibly another, if the discussions on the new system are overtaken by another financial meltdown. to concentrate on the big issue they may decide to roll the current system over for another year or maybe more.

The number of 'ifs' in the above reply shows that nobody, least of all me, knows what is going to happen. About the only thing that is anyway near certain is that premiums will not go back on individual animals as it is too costly to moniter. But then again, who knows what they will come up with

eamon11

hmmmm,

very interesting. What about the 5 hectares thats deemed too corse to graze. Does This mean I cannot claim on it? Or can i still buy entitlements on it?

5live

eamon11 wrote: »

hmmmm,

very interesting. What about the 5 hectares thats deemed too corse to graze. Does This mean I cannot claim on it? Or can i still buy entitlements on it?

Sorry, meant to deal with that.

Who deemed it too coarse to graze? The Department of Agriculture?

Too coarse for cattle? Or sheep? As far as i know once it can grow grass it is elegible to claim on, once any water, ponds, exposed rock or areas that cant be grazed are taken out.

Im sure someone will be on later to clarify that for you but down here in kerry vast areas of mountain are elegible, again once rocks etc are taken out of the total area so i cant see why coarse grazing cannot be claimed on. But like i say some others on here will know more about that side of it

20silkcut

5live wrote: »

eamon11 wrote: »

hmmmm,

very interesting. What about the 5 hectares thats deemed too corse to graze. Does This mean I cannot claim on it? Or can i still buy entitlements on it?

Sorry, meant to deal with that.

Who deemed it too coarse to graze? The Department of Agriculture?

Too coarse for cattle? Or sheep? As far as i know once it can grow grass it is elegible to claim on, once any water, ponds, exposed rock or areas that cant be grazed are taken out.

Im sure someone will be on later to clarify that for you but down here in kerry vast areas of mountain are elegible, again once rocks etc are taken out of the total area so i cant see why coarse grazing cannot be claimed on. But like i say some others on here will know more about that side of it

last year my planner deemed a 5 acre parcel of my farm 50% grazeable because of furze growing on it. But the cattle can graze in around it. How do you measure the footprint of scattered furze bushes?
He was adamant though that I would be docked if inspected .
I lost ground to a new road in 2008 also.
All in I have about 800euros per annum of unused entitlements.

Farmer Pudsey

What is the land like underneat the furze, you could spray the furze and start cutting it back however if it is all rack beneath it might not be worth while. Find out from your father what was it like before, you be suprised after two-three years what it would be like

20silkcut

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

What is the land like underneat the furze, you could spray the furze and start cutting it back however if it is all rack beneath it might not be worth while. Find out from your father what was it like before, you be suprised after two-three years what it would be like

land is fine underneath my father used to have it in rotation for his dairy cows back in the day. It was tied up as a habitat in reps for the last 6 years. Can put it back into new grass now but the loss of the sizeable reps check means money is tight and time even tighter. I would get a cold sweat at the thoughts of a digger man at 40/50 quid an hour clearing off 5 acres and then having to rotivate, reseed, fertilize on top of that .
Was thinking of attacking it with tractor and loader remove furze let rough grass grow back slap it into the sfp application and do a proper job next year.

eamon11

thanks lads,

in my case the dept cut out sections 2 years ago which they deemed too boggy, even though the cattle still graze it. Also cut out bigger sections for house and sheds.
Does this mean even if I buy entitlements I cannot use them here?
And does the newly bought entitlements have to be from a local farm?
Do I need to sell my own farm entitlements before I can buy higher value ones?

tks

5live

eamon11 wrote: »

thanks lads,

in my case the dept cut out sections 2 years ago which they deemed too boggy, even though the cattle still graze it. Also cut out bigger sections for house and sheds.
Does this mean even if I buy entitlements I cannot use them here?
And does the newly bought entitlements have to be from a local farm?
Do I need to sell my own farm entitlements before I can buy higher value ones?

tks

You can buy entitlements but they have to be claimed every 2 years or they are lost to the national reserve. You can buy as many entitlements as you want, there is no limit, but will be lost if not claimed on. So you can buy, say 10 entitlements, and claim on those this year and next year your original 10 and so on so you dont have to sell to buy. And you can buy from any part of the country, it makes no difference where they are claimed

Farmer Pudsey

20silkcut wrote: »

land is fine underneath my father used to have it in rotation for his dairy cows back in the day. It was tied up as a habitat in reps for the last 6 years. Can put it back into new grass now but the loss of the sizeable reps check means money is tight and time even tighter. I would get a cold sweat at the thoughts of a digger man at 40/50 quid an hour clearing off 5 acres and then having to rotivate, reseed, fertilize on top of that .
Was thinking of attacking it with tractor and loader remove furze let rough grass grow back slap it into the sfp application and do a proper job next year.

With work tight you might get a track machine owner to give you a set price and do it when he is slack in the next few months. There are also flail heads for track machines that do this sort of work the advantage they have is that all the P&K in the furze is spread all over the land not in one heap where you burn it.
Saw two old fella one day one on bonnett of 290 with knap sack spraying other one driving in amd out of furze, it worked.