Was I in the wrong?

Catxscotch

So Im driving along a 2+1 road. (For those who don't know, its a two lane road which merges into one lane at every km or so.)

So there is a queue of about 3 cars which I want to overtake, as does the person in front of me. So the two of us indicate out to pass the other 2 cars. So it took a while because the person in front was driving only a little faster than the 2 cars he was overtaking, and the road was nearly ready to merge again, so Im speeding up trying to get past the last car when the guy in front starts breaking, as if telling me to slow down, or that i was driving too close to him. Fair enough, i was up his hole, but I was running out of road! Is this a good time to "teach me a lesson"?

It seems that the road wasn't clear for you to overtake the three cars, you were in my mind in the wrong as you were relying on the car in front to make progress for you to safely overtake.

Gurgle

I would think you were in the wrong, best to wait until you have a clear run in the overtaking lane.

fletch

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes you were completely in the wrong, and driving like a tosser too.

We all make mistakes, at least the OP is trying to learn from his

Atomic Pineapple

Your not quite clear in your description, where was "the car in front" when he "started breaking"? Was the car in the overtaking lane along with you or had he already merged back in?

If you admit to "being up someone's hole" and you weren't in Copper Face Jacks, you were in the wrong. No two ways about it.

Anan1

Catxscotch wrote: »

So Im driving along a 2+1 road. (For those who don't know, its a two lane road which merges into one lane at every km or so.)

So there is a queue of about 3 cars which I want to overtake, as does the person in front of me. So the two of us indicate out to pass the other 2 cars. So it took a while because the person in front was driving only a little faster than the 2 cars he was overtaking, and the road was nearly ready to merge again, so Im speeding up trying to get past the last car when the guy in front starts breaking, as if telling me to slow down, or that i was driving too close to him. Fair enough, i was up his hole, but I was running out of road! Is this a good time to "teach me a lesson"?

My 2c is that you were in the wrong but the car in front could have been considerate and overtaken more smartly.

MugMugs

You were wrong. You had to speed to make it? You should have fallen back without being reminded too.

langdang

Around Mallow somewhere? It's the only 2+1 I know of.
Unfortunately it's common enough, you need to make a call at an appropriate distance from the merging point and back off early unless you are sure you will complete the overtake safely. Frustrating, but the whole Cork-Limerick road is frustrating unless you are on morphine or something.

An annoying stretch of road when people who can't figure it out the 2+1 are on it. Some people seem to freakout at how "narrow" the 1 sections are, and treat it like roadworks or something - It is SAFER due to the fencing, it means you won't meet someone on your side of the road! Drive it on FFS! GRRR!

Have seen emergency vehicles with sirens on trying to make progress and it ain't pretty - some people cannot just drive the effing thing on when it is the most sensible thing to do!

Blazer

In fairness to the Op some people overtake at a ridiculous rate of speed..they somehow seem to think that going 1kph faster than the car they're overtaking seems to be fine.

Had the same issue yesterday where this Yaris driver was all over the road (within the lane), one minute she'd be in the ditch and another out at the while line, this was happening every 20-30 seconds.
Once I got a clear spot I overtook her and the car in front of her who was also crawling and watched then in amazement as she attempted to overtake the car herself while barely going faster than it with another car coming against her.
By the time the car was only about 300 yards (about 6 seconds after she overtook) from her she was only level with the driver of the other car and she had to go back in behind it.

djimi

The guy in front of you sounds like a proper plank tbh; its bad enough doddling with an overtake but then to try slow you down as you try to merge back in as the lane ends is just plain dangerous.

That said I would never attempt to follow someone in an overtake of multiple cars if distance is short, for this precise reason. If Im overtaking and running out road then at least if Im on my own I can floor it to ensure I complete the pass safely; when youre following someone you do not have that option and are relying on them to make the pass in sufficient time to allow you to also complete it.

Alanstrainor

Gurgle wrote: »

Yes you were completely in the wrong, and driving like a tosser too.

No need for that at all. Warning given.

dr.fuzzenstein

djimi wrote: »

The guy in front of you sounds like a proper plank tbh; its bad enough doddling with an overtake but then to try slow you down as you try to merge back in as the lane ends is just plain dangerous.

That said I would never attempt to follow someone in an overtake of multiple cars if distance is short, for this precise reason. If Im overtaking and running out road then at least if Im on my own I can floor it to ensure I complete the pass safely; when youre following someone you do not have that option and are relying on them to make the pass in sufficient time to allow you to also complete it.

+1
I'd say the guy up front was trying to "teach you a lesson", he is what I call a "self appointed road warrior", i.e. complete tosser who will speed up when overtaken, block the outside lane of the motorway and, as above, overtake always at the last minute and as slowly as possible, so no one else can get past.
I've seen people like that in action, to me they have a mental problem and if there was some kind of psych evaluation for the driving license, they would not be on the road.
And those 2+1 roads are lethal for it.
Half the people make a point out of driving slowly to "educate" the rest of us, which means the other half drives even faster and more aggressive as a little fcuk you to the former.
Best to be chilled out about it, in Ireland you must accept that the de-facto speed limit on a single carriageway is 60 km/h due to morons, farmers, dreamers, tourists, heavy traffic, roadworks, tractors, overloaded trucks and so on.
My advise: Just go with the flow, don't try to make progress unless you have a very clear opportunity, don't rely on the guy in front, because he most likely is insane or stupid and take it easy.
It will be hard at first, I used to be an impatient bastard and quite aggressive, it gets you nowhere except a heart attack or in a crash.
I feel your pain and the high horse brigade doesn't make it easier.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

langdang wrote: »

Around Mallow somewhere? It's the only 2+1 I know of.

Plenty of 2+1s round the country now.

Catxscotch

I do realise it was wrong of me to assume the guy in front would overtake normally-we both pulled out as soon as the road opened into two lanes, I assumed the 2km would allow him to overtake 2 cars and merge with the one lane again. I could have slowed down to merge, however the 2 cars we were attempting to overtake were now at the same level as us as he was driving at their speed, if I had slowed down I was back to where I started. He was breaking while still in the overtaking lane, which really infuriated me, i hate drivers who assume they need to teach other road users how to use the road.

Gurgle

fletch wrote: »

We all make mistakes, at least the OP is trying to learn from his

Agreed and re-phrased.

langdang

Paul Black Bacon wrote: »

Plenty of 2+1s round the country now.

I though the Mallow one was the pilot and the scheme was not rolled out due to the general inability of the average Irish driver to drive sensibly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road

Where else has them out of interest?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

At no point has the OP stated the speed limit on the road or the speed he or others were doing; so it's nonsense to decide who was right or wrong at present.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

langdang wrote: »

I though the Mallow one was the pilot and the scheme was not rolled out due to the general inability of the average Irish driver to drive sensibly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road

Where else has them out of interest?

My local one (Castleblayney) is there about 6 years. Wonderful sytem and works very well there. I've hit others around the country but wouldn't be familiar with the names of the places involved, to be honest.

Indricotherium

Paul Black Bacon wrote: »

At no point has the OP stated the speed limit on the road or the speed he or others were doing; so it's nonsense to decide who was right or wrong at present.

If he's pulled out to overtake in a situation where he doesn't Know that he will get by safely he's in the wrong.

It's reckless driving.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Catxscotch wrote: »

i hate drivers who assume they need to teach other road users how to use the road.

Unfortunately somethings they have to; as nobody else is going to teach some of the idiots that drive our roads. (Not refering to your situation specifically here).

nikkibikki

There's one in south Kilkenny as well, it's call a pilot 2+1 road too. They've re-hashed it a few times since it was built in an effort to make it safer, result being that there is no filter lane in or out of Piltown village, but there is into and out of Fiddown village, which is considerably smaller. If anyone is turning into Piltown coming from Carrick-on-Suir, all traffic has to slow down to 50/60kph, and anyone coming out of Piltown and is turning right towards Carrick-on-Suir has to drive across the opposite side of the road... Still not safe guys! Local folklore says that the route had to be the way it is coz a local farmer whose farm was going to be sliced in 2 with the original route has a brother in the NRA who got it changed..... Not sure how true that is.

dr.fuzzenstein

Paul Black Bacon wrote: »

Unfortunately somethings they have to; as nobody else is going to teach some of the idiots that drive our roads. (Not refering to your situation specifically here).

That will only lead to road rage and incidents.
So driver A will say "let's teach driver B a lesson" and driver B may be the wrong guy to mess with and that will lead to driver A with a tire wrench embedded in his skull.
Or driver B decides to call A's bluff and starts a game of chicken, who will give in first. That will lead to crashes and fatalities.
If you decide to be a self-appointed road warrior, be advised that it's not your job, you might mess with the wrong guy or at worst cause a crash.
What you will NOT achieve is for the other guy to say "Oh wait, you're right, I see the error of my ways and will behave in the future".
Not only should the gards remove overly slow as well as overly fast and aggressive drivers from the road, but anyone who decides to play cop should lose their licence for at least a year.

djimi

Indricotherium wrote: »

If he's pulled out to overtake in a situation where he doesn't Know that he will get by safely he's in the wrong.

It's reckless driving.

Im not sure Id go so far as to call this particular instance reckess. Im assuming a 2+1 road is one which has those "climbing lanes" or whatever they are called, where it becomes a two lane carraigeway for a period of time? That being the case, assuming the OP started the overtake at the start of the second lane and didnt leave it until the last minute, I think its a fair assumption that a car should be able to overtake two cars in the space of 2kms.

My earlier comment about not following someone in an overtake refers to a more traditional overtake on a one lane road, or taking a change coming to the end of a two lane section. In light of what the OP has said a few posts up I dont think he did much wrong tbh; certainly I dont think its an unfair assumption to make that 2kms would be enough to overtake two cars on a two lane road (unless the cars they were overtaking were doing 90mph or the car he was following was a tractor).

langdang

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure Id go so far as to call this particular instance reckess. Im assuming a 2+1 road is one which has those "climbing lanes" or whatever they are called, where it becomes a two lane carraigeway for a period of time

In fact, it is even safer than a climbing lane situation - there is an actual barrier separating you from oncoming traffic, and you are given an indication of the length of the second lane when it appears.

So yes, following the other guy wasn't reckless here but not making the call to give up and merge back in time was bad judgement. Doesn't sound like anyone was injured, traumatised or spilled their coffee so it's a chalk it down to experience thing rather than "reckless, think of the children" thing IMO.

Indricotherium

langdang wrote: »

djimi wrote: »

Im not sure Id go so far as to call this particular instance reckess. Im assuming a 2+1 road is one which has those "climbing lanes" or whatever they are called, where it becomes a two lane carraigeway for a period of time

In fact, it is even safer than a climbing lane situation - there is an actual barrier separating you from oncoming traffic, and you are given an indication of the length of the second lane when it appears.

So yes, following the other guy wasn't reckless here but not making the call to give up and merge back in time was bad judgement. Doesn't sound like anyone was injured, traumatised or spilled their coffee so it's a chalk it down to experience thing rather than "reckless, think of the children" thing IMO.

The lack of consequences doesn't change the nature or quality of the act.

I didn't mention children. But the reckless quality of what yer man done is still there. Tailgating and refusing to merge back when the pass wasn't on.

Of course I wasn't there so maybe I'm getting it all wrong.

langdang

Indricotherium wrote: »

Tailgating and refusing to merge back when the pass wasn't on.

Yes, this is reckless, but it's not what you proclaimed as reckless in your original post. The act of attempting the overtake wasn't reckless at the start, but not backing off in time was.

Catxscotch

Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate seeing the error of my ways!
Langdang, I think you have summed it up in that
"Yes, this is reckless, but it's not what you proclaimed as reckless in your original post. The act of attempting the overtake wasn't reckless at the start, but not backing off in time was."

However, in another way, is the guy in front breaking and slowing down before the merge not a bit of a prat, especially since he wasn't giving me enough time to join the line of traffic safely?

langdang

Catxscotch wrote: »

However, in another way, is the guy in front breaking and slowing down before the merge not a bit of a prat, especially since he wasn't giving me enough time to join the line of traffic safely?

Well in my mind he's a langball for sure, if that makes you feel any better!

Indricotherium

Catxscotch wrote: »

Thanks for all the input guys, I appreciate seeing the error of my ways!
Langdang, I think you have summed it up in that
"Yes, this is reckless, but it's not what you proclaimed as reckless in your original post. The act of attempting the overtake wasn't reckless at the start, but not backing off in time was."

However, in another way, is the guy in front breaking and slowing down before the merge not a bit of a prat, especially since he wasn't giving me enough time to join the line of traffic safely?

He may have been a bit of a prat op, however if you are 'running out of road' the correct thing IMO to do is always, to slow down not speed up.

I sounds like you put yourself in a dangerous position through your own bad decision making.

Johntegr

Nothing annoys me more when people leave the lane to try and overtake, when there's a string of traffic ahead, and expect people to let them back into the lane when it merges back into 1 lane of traffic. They get left sitting there, to be fecked if I'm letting them back in.

Top Dog

langdang wrote: »

I though the Mallow one was the pilot and the scheme was not rolled out due to the general inability of the average Irish driver to drive sensibly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road

Where else has them out of interest?

There's some 2+1 sections when you come off the M8 heading for Clonmel

Indricotherium

Top Dog wrote: »

langdang wrote: »

I though the Mallow one was the pilot and the scheme was not rolled out due to the general inability of the average Irish driver to drive sensibly?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2%2B1_road

Where else has them out of interest?

There's some 2+1 sections when you come off the M8 heading for Clonmel

They sound like a great idea for areas where a lot of slow moving agricultural vehicles need to use national primary routes.

They are ruined by the typical Irish drivers inability to happily drive behind another car.