Electricians bill going up and up.

piperh

We recently had a house rewired and have just recieved the final bill and its over €1,500 more than the original quote.

He is quoting for extra labour and changing sockets from singles to doubles. He quoted for 2 men for 8 days but only 2 turned up twice the rest of his time he was on his own. There was no channelling or making good as it was a new build so access was there so i don't understand where the extra labour has come in. The only change we have made since the last quote was an extra light.

We don't mind paying for materials and where we asked him to add a light to the unit after everything had been wired. He added this light to the undercounter lights. But to charge extra for labour for putting in an extra outside socket when he was charging a daily labour rate seems unfair especially as there is no way he did the equivelent of 16 days work.

Are we being unfair questioning this extra labour charge?

jaspertheghost

unfair?? are ya mad...dont pay him for 2 workers that wern`t there!! get a detailed invoice and go through it with him point out the days when he was on his own...he`s chancing his arm tryin to get whatever money he can from ya....stand up to him and dont let him bully ya when ye`re talking, feckin cowboy builders

martinn123

jaspertheghost wrote: »

unfair?? feckin cowboy builders

Eh. actually he is a feckin cowboy electrician;)

jaspertheghost

martinn123 wrote: »

Eh. actually he is a feckin cowboy electrician;)

my apologies, feckin spur wearin sparkies...yeeehaaaw

piperh

jaspertheghost wrote: »

unfair?? are ya mad...dont pay him for 2 workers that wern`t there!! get a detailed invoice and go through it with him point out the days when he was on his own...he`s chancing his arm tryin to get whatever money he can from ya....stand up to him and dont let him bully ya when ye`re talking, feckin cowboy builders

He emailed a breakdown last night of the invoice and has highlighted the extra charges but when i replied to the email asking him about them i got back a one line email that said "as per invoice". So it seems like its going to be a battle.

jaspertheghost

thats a pain in the arse,but dont cave in...ring him direct and talk to him and tell him your not a mug,he cant charge ya for imaginary workers,tell him your going to contact your lawyer but would prefer to get it sorted without a lawyer..dont forget if all the work is done then he has nothing to hold over you as leverage...so he`ll have to back down if he wants to be paid..

martinn123

piperh wrote: »

We recently had a house rewired and have just recieved the final bill and its over €1,500 more than the original quote.

He is quoting for extra labour and changing sockets from singles to doubles. He quoted for 2 men for 8 days but only 2 turned up twice the rest of his time he was on his own. There was no channelling or making good as it was a new build so access was there so i don't understand where the extra labour has come in. The only change we have made since the last quote was an extra light.

We don't mind paying for materials and where we asked him to add a light to the unit after everything had been wired. He added this light to the undercounter lights. But to charge extra for labour for putting in an extra outside socket when he was charging a daily labour rate seems unfair especially as there is no way he did the equivelent of 16 days work.

Are we being unfair questioning this extra labour charge?

To be clear about the original quote, are you sure exactly what was included.
You have mentioned here,
Changing sockets from singles to doubles.........how many.
An extra light......just one
Extra outside socket.....just one
and
extra labour, where he quoted 2 men for 8 days, how much extra labour is he charging for, and how many hours were men on site

It seems he is possible chancing his arm, apart from the extra's you requested, for which he deserves to be paid.

Was it a detailed quote, listing all work, labour/ hours etc, or can you just reply offering a reasonable sum for the actual extra's

piperh

martinn123 wrote: »

To be clear about the original quote, are you sure exactly what was included.
You have mentioned here,
Changing sockets from singles to doubles.........how many.
An extra light......just one
Extra outside socket.....just one
and
extra labour, where he quoted 2 men for 8 days, how much extra labour is he charging for, and how many hours were men on site

It seems he is possible chancing his arm, apart from the extra's you requested, for which he deserves to be paid.

Was it a detailed quote, listing all work, labour/ hours etc, or can you just reply offering a reasonable sum for the actual extra's

Yes i'm sure of what was included i still have the original quote and have checked and double checked it.

It was a detailed quote, We said from day 1 all the sockets needed to be doubles before he'd even begun the job so the wiring and actually putting them in would have made "little difference" (his words). We knew that they would cost extra and we were fine with that. Outside socket yes just 1 and again he knew before starting the job so he could account for it in the wiring he was already doing. The only extras we asked for were the sockets changed to doubles an extra outside socket and a light in a built in unit.

He is charging €150 a day each so labour is coming in at €2400 and then he's adding on extra €500 labour for additional points which are the light in the units and the outside light. The first couple of days when there were the 2 of them they were on site for about 8hrs after that it was anything between 2 and six hours.

muffler

piperh wrote: »

We recently had a house rewired............it was a new build

Im puzzled by this. Why would you rewire a new house?

martinn123

piperh wrote: »

We recently had a house rewired and have just recieved the final bill and its over €1,500 more than the original quote.


Are we being unfair questioning this extra labour charge?

piperh wrote:

then he's adding on extra €500 labour for additional points which are the light in the units and the outside light.

So what's the additional grand supposed to be for? Are you mixing up this with VAT

BryanF

piperh wrote: »

Yes i'm sure of what was included i still have the original quote and have checked and double checked it.

It was a detailed quote, We said from day 1 all the sockets needed to be doubles before he'd even begun the job so the wiring and actually putting them in would have made "little difference" (his words). We knew that they would cost extra and we were fine with that. Outside socket yes just 1 and again he knew before starting the job so he could account for it in the wiring he was already doing. The only extras we asked for were the sockets changed to doubles an extra outside socket and a light in a built in unit.

He is charging €150 a day each so labour is coming in at €2400 and then he's adding on extra €500 labour for additional points which are the light in the units and the outside light. The first couple of days when there were the 2 of them they were on site for about 8hrs after that it was anything between 2 and six hours.

a couple things:

1. did you not agree a price up front?
2. when you changed specification, why did you not agree a new price?
3. how many times during the job did you alter your spec/requirements?
4. where is your property in-relation to an electrical wholesalers?

• your electricians argument could easily be along the lines of - change the ordered parts, buying them at short notice, and travelling during day to get them, you will be paying for this as you changed your mind.
• regarding the 'second person' - an electrician only requires assistance for certain jobs, otherwise an apprentice may only be getting in the way and you would be complaining 'they did nothing' - this labour day rate of 150 seems a little on the low side for a self-employed electrician..

my advice - meet him face to face, outline where your at, and produce your cost assessment, and ask him to explain himself. best of luck

piperh

muffler wrote: »

Im puzzled by this. Why would you rewire a new house?

Sorry that should have said wire

piperh

martinn123 wrote: »

So what's the additional grand supposed to be for? Are you mixing up this with VAT

Nope he hasn't included VAT

BryanF wrote: »

a couple things:

did you not agree a price up front?

Yes we did but i suppose i also accepted things may change slightly

when you changed specification, why did you not agree a new price?

Stupidity:o

how many times during the job did you alter your spec/requirements?

Once when we asked him to put unit light in, everything else was before job was started.

where is your property in-relation to an electrical wholesalers?

No idea

your electricians argument could easily be along the lines of - change the ordered parts, buying them at short notice, and travelling during day to get them, you will be paying for this as you changed your mind.

Only once as previously stated.

regarding the 'second person' - an electrician only requires assistance for certain jobs, otherwise an apprentice may only be getting in the way and you would be complaining 'they did nothing' - this labour day rate of 150 seems a little on the low side for a self-employed electrician..

It was average price quoted from 5 quotes, We were ok with the initial labour costs even though it was for an extra person, its the extra labour we're querying as we feel we've covered that by not questioning why we're being charged for 2 men.

my advice - meet him face to face, outline where your at, and produce your cost assessment, and ask him to explain himself. best of luck

Thanks for your take on it.

Other opinions always welcome on this learning curve.

piperh

piperh wrote: »

Yes i'm sure of what was included i still have the original quote and have checked and double checked it.

It was a detailed quote, We said from day 1 all the sockets needed to be doubles before he'd even begun the job so the wiring and actually putting them in would have made "little difference" (his words). We knew that they would cost extra and we were fine with that. Outside socket yes just 1 and again he knew before starting the job so he could account for it in the wiring he was already doing. The only extras we asked for were the sockets changed to doubles an extra outside socket and a light in a built in unit.

He is charging €150 a day each so labour is coming in at €2400 and then he's adding on extra €500 labour for additional points which are the light in the units and the outside light. The first couple of days when there were the 2 of them they were on site for about 8hrs after that it was anything between 2 and six hours.

Just pay him 1200 for the 8 days labour and tell him go jump:eek:

wirehairmax

Deleted User wrote: »

Just pay him 1200 for the 8 days labour and tell him go jump:eek:

What a brilliant piece of advice! Spoken like a true professional.
OP have a face to face meeting with your electrician. If there are 2 mature adults having a civilized meeting, I'm sure an agreement can be reached.

wirehairmax

wirehairmax wrote: »

What a brilliant piece of advice! Spoken like a true professional.
OP have a face to face meeting with your electrician. If there are 2 mature adults having a civilized meeting, I'm sure an agreement can be reached.

If somebody treats a paying customer with contempt, then that is what they deserve in return. The time of cowboys taking advantage of people has long passed.

scwazrh

Deleted User wrote: »

If somebody treats a paying customer with contempt, then that is what they deserve in return. The time of cowboys taking advantage of people has long passed.

Are we now in a time of customers taking advantage of tradesmen?

If people employ registered , established insured companies with references and warranties you will get a good job at a fair price. It is impossible to run a " real "electrical company when you sell labour at €150 per day. That is less than €18 per hour. The Current legally agreed rates for electricians on a paye wage is €23 per hour.

You paid peanuts and guess what you got

BryanF

mayomaffia wrote: »

wirehairmax wrote: »

What a brilliant piece of advice! Spoken like a true professional.
OP have a face to face meeting with your electrician. If there are 2 mature adults having a civilized meeting, I'm sure an agreement can be reached.

If somebody treats a paying customer with contempt, then that is what they deserve in return. The time of cowboys taking advantage of people has long passed.

So do you just decide at the till what your willing to pay? and call everyone who disagrees a cowboy?
There may well be over charging going on but were not aware of all the facts, so shouldn't the op and the sparky have it out before you hang the 'cowboy'

wirehairmax

Deleted User wrote: »

If somebody treats a paying customer with contempt, then that is what they deserve in return. The time of cowboys taking advantage of people has long passed.

I think you've been watching too many John Wayne films. Yet to meet an electrician who rides a pony to work. More likely to drive a van. Handier for all the tools and cables

muffler

Lets not get personal here. Thanks.

wirehairmax

wirehairmax wrote: »

I think you've been watching too many John Wayne films. Yet to meet an electrician who rides a pony to work. More likely to drive a van. Handier for all the tools and cables

You should do stand up. :rolleyes:I forgot there is no tradesmen that ever overcharge or do sloppy work. Not in this country surely;);)(my mates in the trade must of been dreaming). End of topic from my point of view, as this is obviously the wrong board for a balanced discussion on this topic.

BryanF

mayomaffia wrote: »

a balanced discussion on this topic.

is that what it was? Yee haw

wirehairmax

Fair enough, I just hate the term ''cowboy'' and hearing moaning and whinging about being ripped off and how all builders and trades made millions during the boom. As hard as it is for some people to comprehend, not all of us have a Ferrari parked in an air-conditioned garage and have 5 holiday homes on 5 different continents. Prices during the boom were dictated by the simple economic trend of ''supply and demand''. Just look at whats happening with energy resources such as oil and gas. Supply is getting tighter so prices are rising.
Most cases I hear of people who have been ''ripped off'' are the self-builders who chose to use direct labour without the back-up of a PM or other competent person to oversee and manage the entire construction process. They thought that building was so easy but many regret it afterwards. We all hear the success stories but for every success story there are at least 3 where things didnt go as smoothly as expected and these are the ones we dont hear about.

muffler

Thats it lads, you've all had your say and got your spokes in. Final call to get back on topic.

piperh

scwazrh wrote: »

Are we now in a time of customers taking advantage of tradesmen?

If people employ registered , established insured companies with references and warranties you will get a good job at a fair price. It is impossible to run a " real "electrical company when you sell labour at €150 per day. That is less than €18 per hour. The Current legally agreed rates for electricians on a paye wage is €23 per hour.

You paid peanuts and guess what you got

I didn't just take the cheapest quote and when he came back with his quote i didn't try and barter him down, I asked for a price, references and certs so no its not my fault if he said the job would be at €150 an hour that was his choice. I could always have gone with one of the 2 cheaper quotes but thought going for the middle ground would be better.

He's coming around tomorrow expecting payment so i have printed off copies of his emailed quotes and what we agreed as extras and hopefully we can come to an agreement.

piperh

Just a quick update, he came around and we talked. I said i was unhappy with the extra labour charges and being charged for 2 when only he did the work, I said i could have let the fact he was on his own slide but that he was adding on extra was insulting. He explained the extra cost was incurred through a situation that arose through another trademan but accepted that it was unfair to charge for 2 men.

We agreed a compromise and halved the amount we disagreed about. We were happy with the work he did, always turning up when he said he would, very tidy so it seemed churlish to really fall out if we were pleased with everything he had done.