South East (SE) Asia Route help - Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia

Gatica

I tried posting this in another older thread, but got no replies. So I'll try start a new one in the hope someone may read it and help me out

I'm in a similar situation to the poster on this other thread, no responses there though.

My bf and I are planning on going to SE Asia mid-September (I know it's wet season; and have return flights to Bangkok already purchased) for exactly 4 weeks (-1 day due to travel and time difference). I would like to see all 4 countries: Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia, in that order, with a final visit to some sunny Thai island.
We are planning on flying between all destinations due to time constraints. I know it's an ambitious itinerary, but I really just wanna see/visit the places without "delving" too much (no time for that) and get a taster for a more prolonged visit in the future.

I have read a few of the SE Asia, and Thailand/Laos/Vietnam/Cambodia threads and I got some advice from a number of friends who have travelled there as well. So I am not expecting a lot of recommendations or advice on places to see.
However, I want to run an itinerary past a few of the experienced travellers who visit these forums and get some feedback.

I have done the schedule based on flights and consolidated feedback on some of the cities:

• Bangkok 2 days
• Chiang Mai 2 days
• Luang Prabang 4 days
• Hanoi/Lao Cai/Sapa 4 days
• Dalat 3 days
• Saigon(Ho Chi Minh) 3 days
• Phnom Penh 2 days
• Siem Reap 3 days
• Phuket/Phi Phi (via Bangkok) 4 days

The only place we're getting a bus is Saigon->Phnom Penh, and then speedboat Phnom Penh->Siem Reap.
My problem is that I just cannot pick what to drop off that list! We're not planning on spending any time in Hanoi itself. We want to get the overnight train to Lao Cai and see the Sapa region. My bf is a bit more chilled out than me and would prefer a more laid back approach, stay longer in places we like and not take-off as required by the tight schedule.
How insane is my plan??

I had also thought of maybe dropping the leg between Dalat and Phnom Penh and flying Hanoi to Siem Reap (more expensive though). We're both very keen on keeping Sapa on our itinerary, and then we may even be able to include Ha Long Bay in our visit to Hanoi.

In terms of visas, I think we'll apply for the online Vietnamese visa at www.vietnamvisapro.com, and an e-Visa for Cambodia.
We're getting vaccinated this week at tmb. I compared cost with some posts made over a year ago (200 odd was the norm) and the prices seem to have shot up like crazy - it's costing us something like 500 each (excluding Malaria tabs)!
We included rabies and Japanese Enc. because we wanna walk around/trek the Sapa region, visit the Elephant Sanctuary in Chiang Mai and generally walk the cities where I'm told there are many stray dogs.
Does that sound about right?

I really hope someone can provide their view on this or add any personal experience.

partyguinness

I did Kuala Lumpar- Singapore- Siem Reap- Phnon Penh- Ho Chi Minh- Brunei- Borneo so I can only offer advice of Vietnam-Cambodia. (Sept 2010)

Unlike the other countries, you cannot get a visa for Vietnam at the airport or border. As regards Cambodia, you can get the visa at the border or airport...$30 each.

Make sure you get your Vietnamese visa sorted first...we paid $45 each and felt pretty ripped off plus they did not want to give us change back from $100.

We nearly got snookered going to Vietnam. Only realised it in Kuala Lumpar and had to spend an extra day in Phnom Penh waiting for our Vietnam visa....queing up outside a Vietnamese Embassy in Cambodia was one of the more interesting points of the 4 week trip.

We got a bus from Phnom Penh to Ho Chi Minh and 2 English guys had no Visa at the border and were told to PFO.

As I now live in England, my vaccinations were free...but paid for the malaria...

You mentioned speed boat to Siem Reap...we had planned on doing that but talked out of it in Sieam Reap by some ex-pats...rivers are hit and miss and if the weather is bad...no fun...plus they can be too dry in places and you end up on the bus. Trains are non-existant. Oh and sometimes they do not run at all. So if you are on a tight schedule you are taking a risk on this one as lovely as it sounds.

partyguinness

I can recommend some places to stay in Cambodia if you like. The people and food are lovely but and I hate saying this but Phnom Penh is a complete and utter dump.

You can see what little there is in 1 day..spend an extra day in Siem Reap which is what we did. We had a lovely hotel and stayed an extra day. We booked the hotels and tours as we went along. Quite literally, I would go on the interent the night before and book ahead (hotel, travel, guided tours).

I would agree with your BF. Originally I had a mad insane plan to pack in as much as possible like you but altered it and focused on quality rather than quantity. You will be shattered moving every 2-3 days and basically spend all your time on buses or at airports.

Originally I had planned Laos and north Vietnam as well but left it out eventually. As the g/f said, we can always go back and glad I left it out. You will end up taking all your photos from the bus window!

We also spent 10 days on an organised tour with GAP (to be honest I would not recommend them) Borneo just to take some of the pressure off us. That is something to consider doing.

If I was you, I would take 4-5 days at the end to chill out at one place. We treated ourselves to a 5 star hotel in Borneo for 5 nights before flying back. It allowed us to pack in a hectic 2-3 weeks and then just relax in the one place.

Gatica

thanks for the info... We decided to skip Dalat-Phnom Penh. I'd heard before that Phnom Penh isn't great, and would've left it out of original itinerary if the flights weren't expensive and the bus/speedboat trip tempting.
We're gonna do 4-5 days at Phi Phi or some other island off Phuket. It does look a bit overpriced for Thailand and there are mixed reviews about all hotels, but I guess we're happy enough to splash out on some sunny relaxation.
Could you tell me what hotel you used in Siem Reap?
I looked up Rambuttri Village Inn for Bangkok and it also got later recommended by a friend that stayed there, so we're sorted for Bangkok at least.

wallpaper12

The trip from Ho chi minh to siem riep is going to be really long if you leave out Phnom penh. For me phnom penh was one of my favorite places in all of South East Asia and by far my favourite capital.
Tbh you are trying to see far too much in too little time, you are going to be absolutely wrecked by the end of this trip.

Gatica

sorry if I was unclear... I meant that we're gonna skip all of Dalat/Ho Chi/Phnom Penh. We're gonna fly Hanoi directly to Siem Reap.

I'm just going by majority consensus and seems that most people didn't like Phnom Penh that much. Saying that, I'm sure like yourself there are some people who'll love it, plus all that history at the Killing Fields, etc...

You're right in that we're probably doing a lot. What I wanna do next is sit down and literally calculate the amount of time it'll take to fly, be at airport and travel to/from airport and get feel for the total amount of time that'd be and its percentage of the trip.. yeah, I like the stats of it all.

wallpaper12

Oh ok, if you are leaving that much out you should have enough time.
Iv been in Bangkok, Chiang mai, Hanoi, Siem reap and phuket airport. Chiang mai, phuket and Siem reap are all very close between 10-15 mins but Bangkok and Hanoi are 30-40 mins at least maybe more depending on traffic.

Literally no queues for any of them, all took 5 or 10 mins to get through except Bangkok when you are flying internationally, domestically its quite fast.

I'm confused as to why you're doing 4 countries.. You say you don't want to delve in too much and want to get a taster for a more prolonged visit but is that realistic? You're going to the main spots in 4 countries.. Doing that route again but over the course of 3 months instead of 1 will just feel like deja vu and will be nowhere near as enjoyable as doing it properly the first time.

The itinerary is fine though but I'd seriously recommend dropping vietnam and saving it for your prolonged trip.. No time in Hanoi or Halong Bay is a bit mad. So yea, my advice is if you want to do it again in the future, don't make a hash of it the first time and ruin the proper trip.

partyguinness

Gatica wrote: »

sorry if I was unclear... I meant that we're gonna skip all of Dalat/Ho Chi/Phnom Penh. We're gonna fly Hanoi directly to Siem Reap.

I'm just going by majority consensus and seems that most people didn't like Phnom Penh that much. Saying that, I'm sure like yourself there are some people who'll love it, plus all that history at the Killing Fields, etc...

You're right in that we're probably doing a lot. What I wanna do next is sit down and literally calculate the amount of time it'll take to fly, be at airport and travel to/from airport and get feel for the total amount of time that'd be and its percentage of the trip.. yeah, I like the stats of it all.

I didnt say I didnt like Phnom Penh just I really would not spend any more time there than necessary.

I really wanted to go there and glad I did. Saw the killing fields, went to the torture museum and the national museum. We did that in a leisurely day and then that is it really. We left out the palace.

The prob is that there is a serious lack of info simply because it was only 30 odd years ago, many of the soldiers are in government and still very much around. The UN is only now rounding up people for trial. Because of that info in scarce. Even the museum is very small beacuse most of the artifects are in private hands.

But the Cambodians are prob the nicest people I have met in all my travels and the food was great everywhere we went.

Oh yeah there is an "Irish bar" in Phnom Penh..great burgers. I know I know...:o

Gatica

thanks for all the advice... I guess we really do need to have a good think of whether it's worth doing so so much.

Gatica

It's working out exactly just one day longer than that, i.e. 3-4 days:

• Bangkok 3 days
• Chiang Mai 3 days
• Luang Prabang 4 days
• Hanoi/Lao Cai/Sapa 3 days
• Hanoi/Halong Bay 3 days
• Siem Reap 3 days
• Phuket/Phi Phi (via Bangkok) 4 days

Still too busy? ah, there's just no squeezing so much...

Gatica

So for anyone who's followed this thread... We did the itinerary I've described above, except that we had to do the 2 night cruise in Halong bay instead of 3 night and spent the extra night in Hanoi to tie us over til our flight.

In retrospect I now agree that we should've left out something. Although it's hard to choose, as we enjoyed all the destinations, I would've left out Cambodia (as it was toward the end of our trip and we were starting to get run down) and added those days onto Chiang Mai and Sapa.

The flying between destinations was not too bad. It's more the unpacking/packing that annoyed me and needing time to wash some clothes, as we packed light enough. SE Asia is amazing and as good as I'd hoped it would be.

padraicseosamh

Hi, we're in the early stages of planning a similar trip, I have no idea of budget, we are a couple, I know it will vary but any ballpark figures would be appreciated....

Gatica

well it all depends on what you're planning to do in terms of travel and for how long. Are you intending to fly as well? Also depending on the type of accommodation you go for, e.g. 3/4 star hotels or hostels? Do you want to eat out at local stalls or at restaurants?
We spent around 1500 on internal flights for 2 of us. Accommodation cost us around 1000 excluding Phi Phi. You can live well enough for a month on around 2000 if you're not extravagant. It was our honeymoon so we spent a lot more than that but we went to more expensive tripadvisor restaurants and the like (wouldn't recommend that in retrospect as some were just tourist traps).

padraicseosamh

We were thinking Thailand/Cambodia/Vietnam for 4 weeks(I know, not really an itinerary...early days..), we don't mind hostels but like to have our own room. We would end up in a nice enough hotel 3/4 star for the last week I think. We would do a mix of eating at local stalls and restaurants. Thanks so much for your reply, It gives me what I was after in terms of a rough idea. We were hoping to go late 2013 but with the cost being so high it might be later now, it will take us awhile to save that much!

Gatica

Best thing is to make up a sample itinerary of what you'd like to visit. Then you can check flights and accommodation in that area, that'll give you a more accurate picture of cost.
We had 7 flights in total. The international flights are the most expensive, e.g. cutting out Laos would knock off 500 from the cost of flights (of course you'd still need to add in the bridging flight to Vietnam instead). We had flights to Chiang Mai and return flights to Phuket, which cost us another 300-400 Euro.
If you're planning on doing 3 countries and maybe bussing/getting trains for part of your trip you could cut back a good bit on flight cost.

Our cost of accommodation included our 2 day Halong Bay cruise for >400 Euro. Cut that out and you're looking at less expense again.

Basically you could save >1000 euro by just changing your itinerary from ours.