Question about water rates on farm

paulmerson22

Hi,
last year I paid the council around €2,400 in water charges for the farm. It is around 80 acres and is rented out to a guy that keeps livestock, retired cows if Im correct.

I dont know what the amount was is previous years but I have been told its something similar.

I have two questions,
1.does this sound like an excessive amount to be billed for water, is it possible I have a leak ?
2.is it normal practice for the landowner to pay the full amount ?

On a side note I believe that there is only one meter for the farm and the house in which I live in, would this be normal practice.

Any help is much appreciated

5live

Its normal to have one meter for both farm and house. And it would be normal for a renter to pay the water for his cattle especially if the farm had its own meter. How you would divide the home/farm split could be a difficult problem to solve.

It seems a large ammount for an 80 acre farm unless the renter had dairy cows milking there so i would think there is a leak. Check all the troughs and fittings for any obvious signs of leaks if they are on/near the surface

blue5000

How much was used? 'Normal' consumption in a house according to ray darcy is around 100L per person per day. Add that up for your bill period and subtract it from your metered amount. I reckon you probably have a leak. The most a cow will drink is around 50L per day Coco round here is 5e for 1000gallons, or just over1e per 1000L + standing charge.

paulmerson22

Thanks for the replies, Ill have a look around for any obvious leaks.

If there is a leak would it be a specialist job to get the whole thing sorted or is it something a domestic plumber could handle ?

I mean if its the pipework underground it could be a fairly big job

Tora Bora

paulmerson22 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, Ill have a look around for any obvious leaks.

If there is a leak would it be a specialist job to get the whole thing sorted or is it something a domestic plumber could handle ?

I mean if its the pipework underground it could be a fairly big job

Put a ball valve if not already there, on the pipe where it first rises above ground, from the first run from the meter.
Turn off the valve and read the meter. Check the meter again next day. If the meter has gone up, you know the leak is between the meter and yor ball valve.
Follow that step by step along the rest of the line. Possibly the rest of the line on the farm is above ground, feeding water troughs in fields. Should be easy find any leaks. Most likely at a water trough somewhere.

paulmerson22

@tora bora, very helpful thanks !

bob charles

I have never paid for water on rented lands but they always have had a private supply. Your bill is for over 100k gallons of water!!

Tipp Man

bob charles wrote: »

I have never paid for water on rented lands but they always have had a private supply. Your bill is for over 100k gallons of water!!

Have no idea if your 100k gallons of water is correct or not but assuming it is

Lets say big cattle out for 270 days.

Thats 100,000 / 270 = 370 gallons used per day

Assume 80 cattle on 80 acres

Thats 370 gallons / 80 = about 4.5 gallons per head per day

Seems very plausible to me

paulmerson22

I had a quick walk around this afternoon, there was a puddle of water sitting
around one of the troughs, the trough was refilling at the time so maybe the cattle had just drinking out of it and the water spilled out everywhere.

There was no leak above ground on any of the fittings or the trough itself so maybe a damaged pipe underground.

In my head Im thinking theres multiple leaks now, expecting the worst !

Ill check back tomorrow, to see if its the same.

Id love to hear from other people what the bills are on their land for water

rancher

paulmerson22 wrote: »

I had a quick walk around this afternoon, there was a puddle of water sitting
around one of the troughs, the trough was refilling at the time so maybe the cattle had just drinking out of it and the water spilled out everywhere.

There was no leak above ground on any of the fittings or the trough itself so maybe a damaged pipe underground.

In my head Im thinking theres multiple leaks now, expecting the worst !

Ill check back tomorrow, to see if its the same.

Id love to hear from other people what the bills are on their land for water

Very simple.. tie up all the ballcocks and turn off all the taps in the house, then check the meter. If its still spinning you have a problem. I have just had the same problem myself, had to hire a guy to find the leak. 500 euro to find and repair the leak, it was under concrete so water couldn't come to the surface. In our county,100000 gallons water costs 600 euro, You definitely should consider getting your own well if there's nothing wrong

Red Sheds

Ask the council to recheck the meter reading, jsut in case, one time they reduced a bill for me from over €700 to €56, after i made the case that the amount billed could not be consumed as there were no livestock on the land over the billing period.

Secondly you should have some kind of rental agreement drawn up with the person renting the land to state that they are liable for all services and outgoings including water, insuring the land for public liability, and so on. A water bill like you got would eat well into the rent you are probably getting.

Farmer Pudsey

Depending on what way your water line is set up get some one to help put on stop cock at different points where you have access to main line if no troughs are overflowing the only place you should have flow is into house and into field where cattle are a person watching the meter and yourself and a pair of mobile phones should sort it out.

paulmerson22

Just a quick update.
I had the council out today to have a look at the meter and they said everything is fine, the guy said he didint believe there was a leak because the meter would be flying around if there was.

In the time we were looking at the meter (maybe 3-4mins) it turned over once, indicating one gallon of water was used.

Assuming no water in the house or on the farm was used in this time I would have thought it was quite plausible that a small leak could lose 1 gallon of water in under 5 minutes, what do you think ?

Of course if there is no leak im stuck paying €2,500 a year for water which seems excessive to say the least.

Farmer Pudsey

A gallon every 5 minutes equates to 500,000 litres a years or 500 cubic metres of water. How mich a cubic metre are you charged for water. What is the cost per cubic meter of your water. Check the readings compared with the usage. 2800 euros is a lot for water alot dairy farms would not be paying that. Have you a shed on the farm and did a lot of water go into tank to agitate it. Or if a shed remember the snow last year was the water running to keep water flowing in shed, house or cattle outside??

paulmerson22

A gallon every 5 minutes equates to 500,000 litres a years or 500 cubic metres of water. How mich a cubic metre are you charged for water. What is the cost per cubic meter of your water. Check the readings compared with the usage. 2800 euros is a lot for water alot dairy farms would not be paying that. Have you a shed on the farm and did a lot of water go into tank to agitate it. Or if a shed remember the snow last year was the water running to keep water flowing in shed, house or cattle outside??

Its €1.59 per cubic meter,so that would be €795 a year extra if that is the leak.
We dont have a shed on the farm and there was no water left running during the snow.
Surely there has to be a leak !

Tora Bora

paulmerson22 wrote: »

Its €1.59 per cubic meter,so that would be €795 a year extra if that is the leak.
We dont have a shed on the farm and there was no water left running during the snow.
Surely there has to be a leak !

It's easy to find out. Turn water off as close as possible to the meter. Read the meter once and say again after two hours. Go from there.

rancher

paulmerson22 wrote: »

Its €1.59 per cubic meter,so that would be €795 a year extra if that is the leak.
We dont have a shed on the farm and there was no water left running during the snow.
Surely there has to be a leak !

I think that works out at 6euro approx per thousand gallons, so at 2500 per year they're charging you for 400000 gals or 1200 gals per day. A friend of mine had big water bills for a while and discovered that his neighbour had tapped on to his water supply where it went near a boundary ditch and then connected it onto a water trough with a faulty ballcock.... some cheek. Could it happen in your case too

Farmer Pudsey

If none of you troughs are leaking tie your ballcocks in fields where cattle are or better disconnect and stop water by stopcock or bending pipes. Turn off all water into house and look at water meter you have to allow 2-3 minutes after stoping water for flow to stop ( water pressure builds up in pipes) if meter moving you have a leak.
If you have a leak turn off water to house for a day go along main line with a stopcock insert stopcock turn off check meter and on you go again. When you check troughs did you check T Joints in ground often problem can be at them.

I would also check the physical readings from the council they have been known to be incorrect, check how often and when your meter is read and then keep an eye on it your self make sure to write readings into a notebook so you can reference back,

milkprofit

put your own meter on the line going to the land and monitor it
They are not expensive

patrickn

Are you on a Local Authority Supply or a Group Water Scheme. The rate per metre charged seems very high. In Mayo Council charges are 95 cent per cubic metre and Group schems charge about 70 cent.

razor8

you definitely have a small leak. do exactly as rancher says and tie up all the ball valves and make sure nothing is on in house and see if meter is spinning

are you on a group or public water supply, if you are on a public supply you are entitled to a domestic allowance, check your bill to see if you are getting this

mikky101

Hi Paul,
just wondering what the outcome of your problem was, did you source a leak?
Did you claim for a leak allowance? I have a similar problem here and would appreciate
a little insight!:)
M.