Building a base

gnu

I often see people mention building up a base or having a good base and was wondering can anyone tell me what that means and how I go about doing it? Preferably in beginner/layman's terms!

Thanks!

Oryx

Non techy answer, cos Im not a techy person

Generally you do base work through the off season. It involves low intensity aerobic work. It gives you a good solid level of fitness to work from when you build the intensity towards race fitness.
If you hear people telling noobs they 'dont have enough base' it just means they havent enough training under their belt, and their body won't have adapted to the demands of training. If you're planning a marathon or other tough race, a good base will ensure your body will cope with the additional demands the preparation and racing make on it.

menoscemo

gnu wrote: »

I often see people mention building up a base or having a good base and was wondering can anyone tell me what that means and how I go about doing it? Preferably in beginner/layman's terms!

Thanks!

Building a base means running loads and loads of easy miles before introducing speed training (intervals, fartleks, tempos etc). Most new runners would be best served just getting out and running as much as they can and gradually building up the mileage and regualrity of their running before following any specific plans.

Having a good base would generally mean having run high mileage for years and years. This would allow you to do a lot of intense training without a high risk of injury/burnout.

wrstan

Hi Gnu

I usually try and build a base through the winter, before introducing speed sessions or tempo runs in the spring for some racing in the summer (other than cross country).

The best advice I have been given on this is to just focus on time on your feet, forget about pace and distance and just go out and run regularly at a pace you feel comfortable with (e.g. conversational pace), starting out for say 40 minutes and gradually building it up over an appropriate period to 1 hr, 90 minutes and so on. I always find that this is a great time to find new routes, maybe run some trails or hills and just enjoy long relaxed runs with no competitive pressure. Good advice is to loose the watch on these types of runs.


PS Although I love this type of running, and despite the good advice, I have never been able to ignore pace and time and distance and certainly couldn't leave my watch at home

Clearlier

Here's an article worth reading about it. Take your time and re-read it a few times. Pages 7 - 9 talk specifically about base building (marathon conditioning) although the schedule offered is redone later in the article in terms of time rather than miles.

I see base building as all about preparing yourself to run fast with as Meno said a reduced risk of injury and burnout. To that end I'd go slightly further than the article which was written for a much more active society. For most people I'd add in a fair amount of time each week for strength and flexibility.

It's worth noting that despite claims to the contrary it is not all about one paced easy running. You should be varying the pace. It's bl**dy hard work!

Peter Snell, a physiologist who was also one of the runners coached by the guy who wrote this article has said a couple of times that the only change he would make to this approach is to add in intervals once a week. I've seen him say long intervals in one article (1200, 1600+) and short intervals (distance not specified) in another (can't find either of the articles unfortunately). I think that there are benefits to doing both and also doing short (60 - 80m) hill sprints with full recovery. When I get myself back into training my plan is to alternate the short intervals, long intervals and the hill sprints which I'll do in place of/as part of the Wednesday 1/2 effort run. I haven't done any of this though so I can't say how well it'll work.

That's all probably a bit more complicated that what you were asking for. To simplify.

Run often (twice a day is good if you're getting serious).
Run faster 1 - 2 times per week.
Work on your strength and flexibility.

ecoli

Clearlier wrote: »

Here's an article worth reading about it. Take your time and re-read it a few times. Pages 7 - 9 talk specifically about base building (marathon conditioning) although the schedule offered is redone later in the article in terms of time rather than miles.

I see base building as all about preparing yourself to run fast with as Meno said a reduced risk of injury and burnout. To that end I'd go slightly further than the article which was written for a much more active society. For most people I'd add in a fair amount of time each week for strength and flexibility.

It's worth noting that despite claims to the contrary it is not all about one paced easy running. You should be varying the pace. It's bl**dy hard work!

Peter Snell, a physiologist who was also one of the runners coached by the guy who wrote this article has said a couple of times that the only change he would make to this approach is to add in intervals once a week. I've seen him say long intervals in one article (1200, 1600+) and short intervals (distance not specified) in another (can't find either of the articles unfortunately). I think that there are benefits to doing both and also doing short (60 - 80m) hill sprints with full recovery. When I get myself back into training my plan is to alternate the short intervals, long intervals and the hill sprints which I'll do in place of/as part of the Wednesday 1/2 effort run. I haven't done any of this though so I can't say how well it'll work.

That's all probably a bit more complicated that what you were asking for. To simplify.

Run often (twice a day is good if you're getting serious).
Run faster 1 - 2 times per week.
Work on your strength and flexibility.

+1 on this

You can add fast running but just dont add hard running. Think of this as making a cake. The base is the hard work put into making the cake (building up the body to the point where you can work on maintaining sufficient work at Race pace to allow for improvement safely without the risk of injury or illness) while the speed work and in season racing is the icing on the cake

1) Miles are paramount here. This time should be spent building up your aerobic capacity

2)weaknesses and imbalances. This is the time to work on this stuff. Trying to correct imbalances and muscle while racing and putting in hard sessions can result in the very injuries you are trying to prevent. the likes of hills flexibility and strength work is alot easier to do when you dont have to recovery from Races or very hard sessions

3) Economy. I would say it is important to keep in touch with high speed during this time also an work on leg turnover. Its a firm case of use it or lose it. This does not however mean ball busting speed work. strides or faster paced stuff with huge recoveries are beneficial as long as you are not working for too long or having recoveries too short

gnu

Thank you so much everyone, that's great info! I read that article about the Lydiard (which I will need to go back and read again a few times) and I don't think I'm anywhere close to that stage yet!

I'm new to running (finished jog/walk programme in Jan) and was very inactive for the past few years because of a health problem so I think my base building will take a fair while. I don't have any notion of running a marathon in the next several years although I heard the Rock 'n' Roll Half comes to Dublin in 2013 and I'd be tempted to train for that. This year I couldn't see myself aiming for longer than 10k race but my goal would be just to finish and hopefully keep improving as time goes on. I just want to run for fun and health and at this stage my main goal is to stay injury-free so I can keep going and maybe next year I'll be racing properly.

I was advised that new runners should stick with 3 running sessions a week. That's what I've been doing (2 x ~5k and 1 longer run I'm gradually increasing, currently ~8k). I've been aiming for a conversational pace although sometimes it feels harder and I find myself out of breath. I swim another day and do different kinds of yoga several times a week (and I stretch after every run - I think my flexibility is not too bad and is improving). I've started going to the gym once or twice a week and using the strength machines and doing a bit of cardio too. I often struggle the day after strength training, the muscles can feel a bit dead so not sure I'm doing something wrong there or if I'll just get stronger. I'm not sure if I have imbalances - how can you tell? I was having niggly knee and heel pain now and then but since I got my new shoes (Saucony Type A5) I've been fine so I'm not sure if the problems were from imbalances. I've wondered if my quads might be weak compared to my hamstrings - they're the only muscles I ever feel getting tired or burning, that is mainly when I'm cycling up hills though.

So do you think it's too soon for me to think about speedwork, hills etc? Should I just keep trying to run longer? I hadn' t thought of twice a day but given I'm only doing 3 days a week it seems a bit far off to think about adding that in. I'd love your opinions on adding a 4th running day. I'm playing with barefoot running a little and was thinking of adding a 4th short run to go barefoot (the others I just take off my runners for the last bit of my normal run).

menoscemo

gnu wrote: »

So do you think it's too soon for me to think about speedwork, hills etc? Should I just keep trying to run longer? I hadn' t thought of twice a day but given I'm only doing 3 days a week it seems a bit far off to think about adding that in. I'd love your opinions on adding a 4th running day. I'm playing with barefoot running a little and was thinking of adding a 4th short run to go barefoot (the others I just take off my runners for the last bit of my normal run).

I absolutely think you should forget about Speedwork for a while and just concentrate on increasing length and frequency of the runs. In time the speed of your runs will increase withut any extra effort. The fact that you are getting out of breath at the end of your runs (presumably without upping the speed) shows that you still need to build your aerobic base much further.

Definitely add a 4th day of running but I personally don't see the point of going barefoot on the 4th day. Others might beg to differ but surely that would just increase your risk of injury?

gnu

menoscemo wrote: »

I absolutely think you should forget about Speedwork for a while and just concentrate on increasing length and frequency of the runs. In time the speed of your runs will increase withut any extra effort. The fact that you are getting out of breath at the end of your runs (presumably without upping the speed) shows that you still need to build your aerobic base much further.

Definitely add a 4th day of running but I personally don't see the point of going barefoot on the 4th day. Others might beg to differ but surely that would just increase your risk of injury?

Thanks Meno. Yeah, I knowl I need to improve my aerobic base. Although it's mainly the first 10 minutes I feel most out of breath, by the end I have settled down and breathing easily (maybe I've slowed down by then?). I get out of breath if I run as fast I can (say to get a bus) so I know I've a way to go before I'm fit.I have got faster as I've got fitter so hopefully this will continue.

I'm not a committed barefooter but it feels fantastic and I'm curious about it. I'm doing chi running and it seems to fit well with that style and I originally gave it a go when I had heel pain in my old runners - took them off and it felt amazing. So since then I've just done little bits here and there. Really don't want to end up injured though so I'm taking it very gradually.

Clearlier

gnu wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone, that's great info! I read that article about the Lydiard (which I will need to go back and read again a few times) and I don't think I'm anywhere close to that stage yet!

Obviously not to doing 100 miles but if you get the principles behind the training then you've understood the important thing.

I'm new to running (finished jog/walk programme in Jan) and was very inactive for the past few years because of a health problem so I think my base building will take a fair while. I don't have any notion of running a marathon in the next several years although I heard the Rock 'n' Roll Half comes to Dublin in 2013 and I'd be tempted to train for that.

It's fashionable to run a marathon at the moment and there's nothing wrong with that. Equally though there's nothing wrong with having different goals.

This year I couldn't see myself aiming for longer than 10k race but my goal would be just to finish and hopefully keep improving as time goes on. I just want to run for fun and health and at this stage my main goal is to stay injury-free so I can keep going and maybe next year I'll be racing properly.

That seems like a pretty good and appropriate goal to me. Why not pick one out now that you can have as a goal?

I was advised that new runners should stick with 3 running sessions a week. That's what I've been doing (2 x ~5k and 1 longer run I'm gradually increasing, currently ~8k). I've been aiming for a conversational pace although sometimes it feels harder and I find myself out of breath. I swim another day and do different kinds of yoga several times a week (and I stretch after every run - I think my flexibility is not too bad and is improving). I've started going to the gym once or twice a week and using the strength machines and doing a bit of cardio too. I often struggle the day after strength training, the muscles can feel a bit dead so not sure I'm doing something wrong there or if I'll just get stronger. I'm not sure if I have imbalances - how can you tell? I was having niggly knee and heel pain now and then but since I got my new shoes (Saucony Type A5) I've been fine so I'm not sure if the problems were from imbalances. I've wondered if my quads might be weak compared to my hamstrings - they're the only muscles I ever feel getting tired or burning, that is mainly when I'm cycling up hills though.

It sounds like you've got flexibility covered. You can tell imbalances in flexibility simply by looking at how far you can stretch on either side. Strength ones are harder to tell especially as most of them are going to be in the core area. You might want to consider looking for a pilates/bootcamp/circuits class that you can do regularly. I'd put it in ahead of the strength machines and/or one of the yoga classes. The most important thing in all of these classes is to focus on your form.

So do you think it's too soon for me to think about speedwork, hills etc? Should I just keep trying to run longer? I hadn' t thought of twice a day but given I'm only doing 3 days a week it seems a bit far off to think about adding that in. I'd love your opinions on adding a 4th running day. I'm playing with barefoot running a little and was thinking of adding a 4th short run to go barefoot (the others I just take off my runners for the last bit of my normal run).

It would be a little too soon for twice a day at this stage . I'd forget about distance at the moment and focus on time. It'll help you develop faster and increase your training load appropriately.

On increasing your running you need to keep in mind your overall training load and not just your running. For running there are two ways of increasing your training load - you can increase the intensity or you can increase the duration. You should only really increase one at a time. Unlike meno I wouldn't rule out hills and speedwork altogether but I'd do them sparingly. Strides once a week would be a good idea and once a month you could try some diagonals (find a football pitch, jog the goal-lines, run the diagonals at a fast controlled pace) but not more than that until you're running a bit more.

I would add in a fourth day fairly soon but I'd reduce the time spent on the other runs slightly when you do it - or I'd introduce it as a 10 - 15 min jog. If you're going to the gym you could do it on a treadmill as a warm up.

Also, start introducing an easier week every 4th week. It helps to consolidate your gains and reduces your chance of getting injured.

gnu wrote: »

Thanks Meno. Yeah, I knowl I need to improve my aerobic base. Although it's mainly the first 10 minutes I feel most out of breath, by the end I have settled down and breathing easily (maybe I've slowed down by then?). I get out of breath if I run as fast I can (say to get a bus) so I know I've a way to go before I'm fit.I have got faster as I've got fitter so hopefully this will continue.

The first 10 mins of a run is fine - I often struggle with my breathing until I've warmed up. The Kenyans start their runs very, very slowly and that seems to me like a very good principle (even if I don't always follow it myself!)

I'm not a committed barefooter but it feels fantastic and I'm curious about it. I'm doing chi running and it seems to fit well with that style and I originally gave it a go when I had heel pain in my old runners - took them off and it felt amazing. So since then I've just done little bits here and there. Really don't want to end up injured though so I'm taking it very gradually.

Keep taking it slowly. There was an article in the Guardian by Eddie Izzard recently where he was talking about going to see Haile Gebreselassie. Eddie was really getting into barefoot and assumed that Haile would think it was a good idea as he had to run in bare feet as a kid. When he was in Ethiopia he went for a run barefoot and got offered trainers by loads of people on the street. When he asked Haile what he thought about running barefoot Haile said something like "just put a pair of runners on".

corny

Would a 3 day longish run week be best or a shorter run 5 or 6 day week?

rom

corny wrote: »

Would a 3 day longish run week be best or a shorter run 5 or 6 day week?

Speaking from my own experience I used to run like 30 miles a week this time last year. That would be 3 long runs of equal length each. Personally I found that I was injured a lot, very sore, tired etc. Now I run close to double that a week, most of my runs are less than 10 miles, maybe one over that but I am less tired, injured etc.

I only started to do base training in Jan this year and it was very slow at first with 10-11 mins/mile but that has come down steadily since.

As I was looking to lose weight when I started running much more than I am now it was all about killing myself when I went out for a run however the body reacts to this in a number of ways I found myself having irregular eating patterns such that I was very hungry after a run and then I would eat much more and less the day before the next run. This slowed down my metabolism which is something that can happen to people during marathon training that the body stores up food for the LSR at the weekend and you can gain weight.

With the change in my training,less long runs but more frequent shorter runs my times have come down and I actually have been injury free so far this year when I had about 20 or so physio appointments last year.

Also my times have come down a nice bit and are still coming down. 10 mins for my 10 mile time in over a year but only since Jan with proper base training.

Also I found that say running as far as you can which for me was 12 miles 3 times a week meant that I got run down and sick easily. Not so much any more.

On a side note. My brother had zero training (never did sports of any kind) and with 3 months only aerobic base training with running 12-15 miles per week (3 times a week) his 5K time went from 29mins 30 to 21mins 30.
He had never ran under a 9min per mile training but was able to run 6:55 per mile for a 5K. (not saying that only slow running should be done but an example what can be achieved with just slow running, Currently I run fast maybe once or twice a week only and really enjoy it when I do)

Proper use of a HRM was invaluable to him and his progression.

Dermo09

gnu wrote: »

Thank you so much everyone, that's great info! I read that article about the Lydiard (which I will need to go back and read again a few times) and I don't think I'm anywhere close to that stage yet!

I'm new to running (finished jog/walk programme in Jan) and was very inactive for the past few years because of a health problem so I think my base building will take a fair while. I don't have any notion of running a marathon in the next several years although I heard the Rock 'n' Roll Half comes to Dublin in 2013 and I'd be tempted to train for that. This year I couldn't see myself aiming for longer than 10k race but my goal would be just to finish and hopefully keep improving as time goes on. I just want to run for fun and health and at this stage my main goal is to stay injury-free so I can keep going and maybe next year I'll be racing properly.

I was advised that new runners should stick with 3 running sessions a week. That's what I've been doing (2 x ~5k and 1 longer run I'm gradually increasing, currently ~8k). I've been aiming for a conversational pace although sometimes it feels harder and I find myself out of breath. I swim another day and do different kinds of yoga several times a week (and I stretch after every run - I think my flexibility is not too bad and is improving). I've started going to the gym once or twice a week and using the strength machines and doing a bit of cardio too. I often struggle the day after strength training, the muscles can feel a bit dead so not sure I'm doing something wrong there or if I'll just get stronger. I'm not sure if I have imbalances - how can you tell? I was having niggly knee and heel pain now and then but since I got my new shoes (Saucony Type A5) I've been fine so I'm not sure if the problems were from imbalances. I've wondered if my quads might be weak compared to my hamstrings - they're the only muscles I ever feel getting tired or burning, that is mainly when I'm cycling up hills though.

So do you think it's too soon for me to think about speedwork, hills etc? Should I just keep trying to run longer? I hadn' t thought of twice a day but given I'm only doing 3 days a week it seems a bit far off to think about adding that in. I'd love your opinions on adding a 4th running day. I'm playing with barefoot running a little and was thinking of adding a 4th short run to go barefoot (the others I just take off my runners for the last bit of my normal run).

GNU, you sound just like me. I started running again last September, and am building my base using a combination of Barefoot running and Chi Running, completely changing my running style from heel to toe, to forefoot striking. Granted, i will only go out in Vibrams for runs up to 10Ks or so, and any longer runs i do in regular runners. (Barefoot style Saucony Cortenas, they only have a 4mm heel to toe drop, not 12 or 16 like other runners)

I started off running 4 / 5 times a week covering a total of 25 Kms. Now I stick with 3/4 times max. This week will be my biggest week so far of 40 Kms...So its taken me 32 weeks to increase 15 KMs...i did take 5 (seperate) weeks off due to the feeling of niggles in that time which seems to have helped.. I am hoping I will be able to ramp this up quite quickly between now and my aim of the Dublin Marathon in October, with a max week plan of 75KM by the end of September.

Its been great fun so far, with many races thrown in, all between 5k, and 10k. I have pencilled others in also, with the Kildare HM my next big goal in 3 weeks.

Finally, I also do some Yoga, stretch and other exercises for Core and Leg strength.

gnu

Great advice Clearlier, thank you. My plan is to take everything gradually. I think to start with I'll run on alternate days so that will be 7 in a fortnight and from there I can increase to 4 times a week. And I'll scale back the length a bit when I add in the extra one. I've already been scoping out some races - not sure how beginner-friendly they'll be but I'll give them a go anyway! As for the barefoot running, I'm sure the likes of Haile Gebreselassie think we're nuts but it really does feel great! I'm hoping if I go gradually, it'll be ok.

rom wrote: »

I only started to do base training in Jan this year and it was very slow at first with 10-11 mins/mile but that has come down steadily since.

I'm in or around this kind of pace (7min/km I think that's about the same?) - it's really encouraging to hear how you've progressed - well done! Hopefully, I'll keep improving too. I realised one of the main reasons I want to get faster is not so much for races (although that will be nice), it's so I can join a club and keep up with at least some of the other runners!

Dermo09 wrote: »

GNU, you sound just like me. I started running again last September, and am building my base using a combination of Barefoot running and Chi Running, completely changing my running style from heel to toe, to forefoot striking. Granted, i will only go out in Vibrams for runs up to 10Ks or so, and any longer runs i do in regular runners. (Barefoot style Saucony Cortenas, they only have a 4mm heel to toe drop, not 12 or 16 like other runners)

I started off running 4 / 5 times a week covering a total of 25 Kms. Now I stick with 3/4 times max. This week will be my biggest week so far of 40 Kms...So its taken me 32 weeks to increase 15 KMs...i did take 5 (seperate) weeks off due to the feeling of niggles in that time which seems to have helped.. I am hoping I will be able to ramp this up quite quickly between now and my aim of the Dublin Marathon in October, with a max week plan of 75KM by the end of September.

Its been great fun so far, with many races thrown in, all between 5k, and 10k. I have pencilled others in also, with the Kildare HM my next big goal in 3 weeks.

Finally, I also do some Yoga, stretch and other exercises for Core and Leg strength.

Sounds like you're getting on fantastic with the chi running/barefoot approach. I don't know the Cortenas but got a pair of racing flats that are working ok so far - they're not perfect but an improvement on what I had. Which VFFs do you have? I was thinking of getting a pair of Sprints but the shop I planned to buy from closed down.:( Best of luck for Kildare and the marathon - wow!!!!