Emigrate... but have no idea where to go?

LegacyUser

Hi guys,

Upto now I've never thought about emigrating or even traveling for more than a few months but because of numerous events that have occurred over the last while, I've started to think of it as a serious option. I'm not enjoying my job anymore and completely over worked for the money I'm on. I'm 30, don’t have much holding me back, my girlfriend wants to do something similar, so I'm thinking why not give it a shot!

Anyway, I have NO idea where to go so I’m here looking for assistance! A lot of people my age have headed to Australia over the last few years but I'm thinking of something different. Singapore? I've heard a good few are now heading to Canada.... What about Europe??

To give a bit of background, currently I'm bored and very much over worked in my job so over the last while I've been studying and hope to within a month or two gain industry standard qualifications in the high end of computer networking. I've been in the IT industry for 11 years.

I really am trying to look for somewhere that can have a nice balance between quality of life and having a comfortably paid job. That’s the aim but sure isn’t it always! Just cant get a break in my home country Ireland, its sad in a way

Any ideas, thoughts, experiences of places you'd like to share are greatly welcome

The Corinthian

What languages do you speak at a conversational level or higher? I ask this because while you can often get a job in an English-speaking multinational, if you don't speak the local language it limits your options should you lose that job. So existing languages or an ability with them can be important. If not, you're really limited to the English speaking World.

Personally, I would recommend going to somewhere where English is not the first language. It might be tough at first, but if you put in the effort and learn it, it'll be a lot more rewarding than being in an Anglophone culture, also because they tend to have better home versus work life set-ups, being less influenced by Anglophone business culture.

Secondly, look at the longer term trends in various economies. US is not doing well right now, but there is light at the end of the tunnel economically. As such, going there may be an option again. Australia is doing well, but they're due a serious crash, so going there may be inadvisable. When picking somewhere, don't think of how things are now, but how they may be in a year or two - so do lots of research.

Third of all, find out about the culture of these places. I've spent time in Singapore, for example, but I'm not sure I'd want to live there as it is very crowded and the social politics are pretty repressive - P.J. O'Rourke once described it as "Disneyland with the death penalty". Again, do lots of research.

Related to this is your legal position. In the EU, you've no problems. EFTA nations will have a few visa restrictions. Outside of Europe and your rights will vary wildly; for example, the UAE is attractive to many, up until you end up on the wrong side of the law (or an influential local), then you quickly realize you have no rights to speak of.

I would draw up a short-list, then do a lot of research on each country. Try their food, also. Ultimately though, what it will likely come down to is which one you find a job in first, but if you're concentrating on only a subset of that shortlist at that stage at least you have a much better chance of ending up somewhere you enjoy.

LegacyUser

Germany? Highest ever employment. Bavaria crying out for workers. In IT English will be a help, not a hindrance and you will have a huge choice of flights home from multiple destinations.

The Irish (and British) obsession with English speaking emigrant destinations shows a frightening lack of courage and education. Six months in a foreign country and you'll master the language (if you want).

The Corinthian

bananaRep12 wrote: »

Six months in a foreign country and you'll master the language (if you want).

Depends on language, age and aptitude.

Some people are just not good at languages. Also learning a new one becomes harder as you grow older. And some languages, such as German, are harder to learn than others, especially if you find yourself in an English speaking working environment. Thinking you can master a language in six months can be a little optimistic as a result.

Nonetheless, I'd agree with you on going to a non-Anglophone country. And Bavaria; great place and people.

syklops

What languages do you speak at a conversational level or higher? I ask this because while you can often get a job in an English-speaking multinational, if you don't speak the local language it limits your options should you lose that job

This old chestnut again.

I completely disagree. If you work in IT, there is a decent chance you will be working for a multi-national. All multi-nationals in Europe look for english speakers both natives and expats. If you lose your job, which is unlikely as IT is booming, you just go to the next multi-national.

The Irish (and British) obsession with English speaking emigrant destinations shows a frightening lack of courage and education.

Well its attitudes like the above that foster these obsessions. In most if not all european countries most people under the age of thirty have some level of english. All multinationals require their employees to speak english(usually because the american based managers dont want to learn a language, understandably).

Six months in a foreign country and you'll master the language (if you want).

I slightly disagree with this comment. It depends on the language, whether you have any prior experience of that language family and how much time you spend on it. Coming up on year 3 here, I can speak a little but I dont understand very well. That said I dont try very hard to learn. A 60 hour week is not un common for me. I also spent almost 1 month last year out of the country on business so my time is precious. After 6 months of trying hard, you will have some kind of a handle on the language, but what I am saying is its not even necessary. I know people who have moved here from England, Ireland and scotland, everything from 15 years ago to 6 months. Some speak a little, some speak alot, some speak nothing other than "Pivo prosim"(Beer please), and they have gotten on fine. By fine, I mean set up businesses and bought houses.

Don't let the language hold you back. If you do, then you will end up competing with 200 other irish men with similar experience in Canada.

EDIT: As your working in IT, I'd recommend Czech Republic(low wages but great opportunities), and Germany.

The Corinthian

syklops wrote: »

I completely disagree. If you work in IT, there is a decent chance you will be working for a multi-national. All multi-nationals in Europe look for english speakers both natives and expats. If you lose your job, which is unlikely as IT is booming, you just go to the next multi-national.

First of all, learning the local language is not simply about getting a job. It's about integration, expanding your social life and not hanging around with a bunch of ex-pats all the time.

Secondly, not speaking the local language will limit you to multi-nationals and that can be an issue even during a boom period.

Don't let the language hold you back. If you do, then you will end up competing with 200 other irish men with similar experience in Canada.

I wouldn't let language hold anyone back either, but to ignoring it is something you can only really do if you intend to be there for only two or three years.

syklops

Well I hang out with a bunch of ex-pats.

My usual drinking and social friends are a mixture of Irish, English, Scottish, American, Macedonian, Bosnian, Polish, Slovak, Argentinian, Serb, Italian, Australian, German and Egyptian.

I don't feel at all limited.

The Corinthian

syklops wrote: »

I don't feel at all limited.

Good for you. If you stick around for a few years you might change your mind as they begin to leave.

That's the problem with only having ex-pats in your social circle; unless they have a local spouse, most only stick around for two years or so. So you'll never make any close, long term friends (lots of Christmas cards from ex-pats you used to socialize with though).

If you only intend to stick around for two years or so, then this is naturally a moot point.

syklops

I also have numerous Czech friends, indeed some have become close over the time I have been here.

I suppose it is worth pointing out to the OP that you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum The Corinthian is a Mod of the Italiano(Italian) forum so it is safe to say that languages and their learning is a subject close to his heart. On the other end is me who moved to a European country almost 3 years ago. I had no Czech going, have learnt a bit but not a lot while here, and in my opinion it is not necessary to know any before you leave as the industry the OP is going into looks for english speakers. I certainly would not let you use it too much as a factor of where to go. So it is understandable that The Corinthians opinion and I should differ.

The Corinthian

syklops wrote: »

I also have numerous Czech friends, indeed some have become close over the time I have been here.

I'm not denying you do, but I do know from experience that speaking the local language opens up a huge number of social options for you - not least of all that your Czech friends don't have to be English speakers to be friends with you. What happens when your Czech friends introduce you to non-English speaking Czechs? Inevitably, if you're outnumbered in the group, you're going to get locked out as they end up speaking more Czech than English.

I suppose it is worth pointing out to the OP that you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum The Corinthian is a Mod of the Italiano(Italian) forum so it is safe to say that languages and their learning is a subject close to his heart.

Not at all. I'm hopeless at languages, I just happened to have been brought up bilingual.

On the other end is me who moved to a European country almost 3 years ago. I had no Czech going, have learnt a bit but not a lot while here, and in my opinion it is not necessary to know any before you leave as the industry the OP is going into looks for english speakers.

Of course it's not necessary, I never said it was. But I do think it is important if you intend to stick around in the country in question for more than a few years.

syklops

I am not going to continue this discussion on languages. The OP never asked about languages in his OP, he just wanted information on where to go.

OP, I can recommend the Czech Republic having been here for nearly 3 years. Working in all IT jobs. One in fact where Cisco was desired more than anything. Over that I would still recommend Europe. Despite what you hear on RTE news many parts of Europe are doing very well, and you can get a change in culture while only being 2-3 hours away from home. Plus being in Europe you can travel all over europe by bus/train for half nothing and get to see lots of different places and see lots of different cultures.

I work in IT security, a quick look at the careers page here, they are looking for QA people, Ops people(sys admins) and networking people. I know of numerous other companies who are looking for CCIE and other Cisco certs. It goes against the PI charter to ask for a PM, but if you ask on thread, I cna post links to some of the jobs I know about, if the Mods agree.

If I were you I would absolutely do it. While I do miss home and am looking to return in a year or two, I am delighted I moved here and got the life and social skills.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,
I emigrated to the States almost 3 years ago.

Tiny bit of advice. I've seen a lot of people come and go think that just the fact of leaving Ireland will solve everything. My advice is weight up everything.

Is it possible a new job or role would make things better? Is it possible a move to somewhere else in Ireland would make you happier?

If you're fully set on emigrating then it CAN be great but for a lot of countries around the world, they are having their own difficulties so don't presume that you'll step off the plane and walk into riches.

Do a lot of re-search, can you get a job before leaving. If not what are your options. What sort of visa options do you have. Do remember it costs a lot of money to move and it will take a year or two in a new place to really be in a steady financial position again if you're starting all over. Just some simple and obvious advice but you'd be surprised how many people I speak to who overlook those things.

Moving away can be great but it also requires a LOT of hard work to establish yourself. You mentioned being over worked. Again, EXPECT this until you are established in a new place.

Hope some of that helps, don't mean to jump to any conclusions about your situation and wishing you the best.

Usiququmadevu

Just a quick word... as an old immigrant, I might say- life in immigration could be difficult.